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Deer and autopilot

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Steve3008, Dec 21, 2016.

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  1. Steve3008

    Steve3008 Member

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    does anyone know what a reasonable expectation is for deer avoidance? I know they are not going to guarantee this but what's a reasonable expectation? We had another deer strike today. It seems to be happening much more frequently and safety would be my main reason for stretching and buying a 3.
     
  2. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    Even if it detects deer some deer strikes are unavoidable. That said, you're less likely to get hurt in something built like a tank.

    At the end of the day insurance can pay for your car but it can't bring you back to life.

    Training AP2 to recognize large animals is trivial and it'll have the hardware it needs already. Make no mistake though... you can never make is deer proof.
     
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  3. Reeler

    Reeler 7th Year of Pure EV

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    Mercedes wrote their AP algorithm to favor the customer over a pedestrian. I think the deer will get an even lower priority.
     
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  4. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    Mmmm... venison!
     
  5. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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  6. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

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    the only effective way to avoid deer is for YOU to be fully aware of your surroundings. at this point the AP system is only an assist to YOU, YOU must at all times be vigilant and able to assume control of the car at any time.
     
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  7. Dan Detweiler

    Dan Detweiler Member

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    Unfortunately, I have been involved in several deer strikes throughout my life and all of them were cases of the deer panicking and running into the side of my car. Auto pilot will do a much better job of seeing deer on the side of the road than I ever could. It won't eliminate animal strikes but I think it will do a better job of avoiding situations that lead to them.

    Just my two cents as always.

    Dan
     
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  8. NeverFollow

    NeverFollow Member

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    What about cyclists?
     
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  9. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    By customer he means driver and passengers.... cyclists, small children, goats, clowns, you name it, are less important if on the road in an emergency situation and missing them puts the driver in immediate danger.

    There is no trolley problem... the solution is whatever is the safest for the driver.

    Studies show people do not want cars that would prioritize anything other than the driver... would you want your car to sacrifice you into a tree in order to miss a racoon? No.
     
    • Like x 1
  10. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

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    Is it a cute raccoon?
     
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  11. SwTslaGrl

    SwTslaGrl Member

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    Otter? I'm going to drive past this sign when I get the M3 ;)

    signs.jpg
     
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  12. Zaphod

    Zaphod Galaxy President (former)

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    I recall a tweet/presentation/article that mentioned the original Autopilot and being able to detect moose. I believe anything smaller than that was very difficult. With the new sensor suite, I assume things would be greatly improved.

    The biggest problem with deer and other associated critters out there is that they are unpredictable. If the deer would just turn around and run the other way, it would be fine. But they usually freak out and run into the lane. I see crashes with animals being reduced, but I don't think we can ever eliminate them.
     
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  13. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    In the case of clowns, they should be specifically targeted. :p
     
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  14. Missile Toad

    Missile Toad Member

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    @NeverFollow , a sensible rule for cyclists (assuming it is an overtaking situation, with cyclist on the right), is to subordinate the strict legal requirement of never crossing a solid yellow line, and offset the car to the left while passing. The car would need to run a subroutine in case oncoming traffic disallows the safe crossing of the yellow line -- for example, by slowing down to match the cyclist's speed. My guess is that these two maneuvers handle 65-70% of car versus cyclist interactions. Since AP is not equipped to handle sign or stoplight controlled intersections, I suspect the remaining risk scenarios involve a cyclist that fails to yield appropriately, and would be treated much like a deer v. car.

    It is going to be fun when the first accident happens, and the software development staff is called to the stand to explain their decisions.
     
  15. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    Why is the driver always more important ?

    I certainly do not feel that way just because I am the driver.

    This deer issue is actually the reason I am probably going to delay my M3 purchase. I want the AP to help me avoid deer collisions. EM has recently said that he thought a road-side animal the size of a moose would be avoided by AP but he had doubts about deer. Since I cannot know if Gen1 AP hardware will not require more sophistication for deer, I am in a holding pattern.
     
  16. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    This is still a variation of the trolley problem and is plagued by a human sense of morals and ethics making the question unanswerable.

    Humans still exist due to an instinctual drive for preservation of "self" so keep that in mind. when interpreting the results of that study.
    You said you don't feel that was because you're the driver. So let's look from perspective of the car.

    If the car is tasked to avoid objects on the road will it swerve to avoid a squirrel throwing you into a tree?
    We might agree ok, hit the squirrel.

    What if it was a baby in the road and the driver was a 97yr old man?
    You might say throw the man into the tree, but remember you're the car and it's not your job to make such decisions. The 97 yr old man was carrying three car seats with 3 babies in the backseat. If you didn't hit the baby in the road you just killed 3 in the back.

    You can come up with millions of scenarios but at the end of the day the car should do whatever it can to protect the occupants AND avoid such dangerous situations in the first place thus helping everybody.

    As for deer and AP2. When the moose thing was announced that was refering to AP1 and using radar only for detection. There's no reason in AP2 they couldn't use the cameras for animal detection of any size. Image recognition is quite good nowadays.
     
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  17. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    At first glance, I thought you were referring to "Otto" instead of "Otter" (since we're on the subject of autopilot and its behavior). :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. DrivingTheFuture

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    Luckily the seats will detect how many babies and young adults are in the seats and also how healthy they are by lower back sweat measurements that can estimate BMI... I'm sure Elon is already hard at work on this algorithm.

    Hopefully the next update for AP V2 cars will enable quick reaction decisions, i.e. what to do when the Tesla approaches a young model who has just started her career and is walking two very cute puppies (vision recognition software and machine learning will surely be able to determine cuteness). Hopefully Larry Page allows Elon to apply some of Google's data from image searches of "cute" + "puppies" to speed up Tesla visions ability.
     
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  19. dsvick

    dsvick Active Member

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    Many states already allow you to, legally, go "left of center" when passing someone, assuming there is no oncoming traffic and you can clearly see the entire road. It's more complicated than just passing carefully too. Different states have different rules regarding minimum distance when passing bikes and runners, some are even speed dependent. Ranges gp from 3 feet to as many as 6 feet.
     
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  20. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Watch this video from 25 seconds forward:



    Anti-Deer Technology Today.

    This is what my wife wants but is waiting for the PHEV version in the Spring.
     

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