That would be nice. I wonder if the AP2 hardware can view different wavelengths and if the supposedly upcoming HUD/AR hardware will allow night vision.
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NeverFollow
Active Member
Good point, also there is not always a line to separate the cyclist lane from the road way.
My big fair, as cyclist, is to be passed by a car or a truck not moving away to the left, and passing to close.
or moving back to earlier (particular issue with trucks or buses).
I assume that it should it be possible to change a setting to the AP to give extra width (and length)
when using a trailer such as a Dolly, which are much more larger than the tractor car.
See pictures illustrating the issue, where drivers often forget that they have a dolly attached behind:
(and hitting a curb, .... or a cyclist)
JeffK
Well-Known Member
I cannot imagine it will be adjustable for towing. There are no sensors on the dolly and the dolly will obstruct rear sensors.Good point, also there is not always a line to separate the cyclist lane from the road way.
My big fair, as cyclist, is to be passed by a car or a truck not moving away to the left, and passing to close.
or moving back to earlier (particular issue with trucks or buses).
I assume that it should it be possible to change a setting to the AP to give extra width (and length)
when using a trailer such as a Dolly, which are much more larger than the tractor car.
See pictures illustrating the issue, where drivers often forget that they have a dolly attached behind:
(and hitting a curb, .... or a cyclist)
You can see from the Tesla video how much space it gives pedestrians and cyclists as both appear in the video.
NeverFollow
Active Member
Deers are not the only problem...
I am driving in San Francisco and the Bay Area and I would say that a lot of Uber and Lyft drivers are also crazy and unpredictable.
I guess time is money for those type of drivers who don't hesitate to cut you off, change lane, make a left turn in front of in-coming traffic....
I wonder how AP will handle such erratic and aggressive behavior drivers?
I'm pretty sure SDT is a long way off (Squirrel Detection Technology). It's the #1 fault I find in adaptive cruise control systems. They lack the logic to determine when other drivers are acting erratically, or to spot when there is huge speed differentials, or to pace correctly when you see a solid pack of cars in the distance.
For today, an experienced and alert human has a huge advantage in car placement and speed control. Reaction time is the only thing a computer is superior at.
SabrToothSqrl
Active Member
I do get a kick when I watch a squirrel change lanes 30 times while tailgating, then later find them getting off the freeway the same time I do.
I think they believe if they ride enough people's bumpers, it will eventually create an open lane just for them. Sadly, human nature works against them, and a percentage of folk will actually block them because they don't appreciate being tailgated.
I think they believe if they ride enough people's bumpers, it will eventually create an open lane just for them. Sadly, human nature works against them, and a percentage of folk will actually block them because they don't appreciate being tailgated.
No, it did not show high speed operation. I don't know if that's because they want you to see the feature effect clearly, or it cannot process fast enough.
I haven't driven one yet. Both times when a Cadillac dealer said they had a car with the IR camera (Platinum CT6), they lied, just to get me into the dealership. I hate that.
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
It seems to me, in all these autopilot threads, that people want to focus on what it WON'T do rather than what it WIll do. Also, they want complete 100% level 5, take a nap in the driver's seat, autonomy RIGHT NOW or nothing at all.
As long as the driver remains allert for reasoning type moments like those that have been described, autopilot as it will exist when we get our Model 3 cars will be far safer and much less taxing on the driver. That's all I want in the short term.
Sure, in a year or two, or whatever it takes, I will be thrilled with complete level 5 but in the mean time I plan to enjoy auto pilot for what it CAN do for me, rather than what it CAN'T.
DAN
As long as the driver remains allert for reasoning type moments like those that have been described, autopilot as it will exist when we get our Model 3 cars will be far safer and much less taxing on the driver. That's all I want in the short term.
Sure, in a year or two, or whatever it takes, I will be thrilled with complete level 5 but in the mean time I plan to enjoy auto pilot for what it CAN do for me, rather than what it CAN'T.
DAN
The wavelengths you need for thermal infrared don't pass through normal glass, so there's no way the existing cameras could do this. A conventional imaging chip would blind itself if it isn't cooled too much lower temperatures, which is expensive.
Every car I've seen with IR has used a dedicated "camera" installation in the front valence, with a micro bolometer. (That's a bunch of thermally isolated thermisters on a plate behind an infrared lens - it generates an 'image' by measuring how much each thermister is heated by the scene.)
Sometimes you will find some fairly trick technology in car components. Two surprises to me in the last decade when it comes to sensors were the 300 bar pressure sensors that live at 1000°C. The other was the wideband thermistor. It reports accurate temperatures from 0°C to 1000°C, reporting in ohms, not microvolts as thermocouples do.
Could the IR systems be using a wideband video chip? The same Cadillac has surround vision cameras, perhaps they can see from high violet down to low infrared? I'm not sure.
It would take the least amount of CPU muscle to do it that way. They generate boxes when the color byte variation is sharp and the correct shape. The boxes seem to change color based on distance though, so they are certainly using either video triangulation, RADAR, or lidar to range find.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Supposedly they have a dedicated passive IR sensor
Actually there is a way but using visible light instead of IR. Modern automotive camera sensors have a high dynamic range are quite sensitive to light. Combined with ambient light and light from your headlights (which would be on at night), they've have little trouble "sensing" a deer. It's not going to be nearly as clear cut as data from an IR sensor to the human ete but it'd virtually work the same in the day as the night. An IR sensor would not work the same during the day as surfaces can get very hot in direct sunlight making all sorts of things warmer than living objects.
The BMW version also combines a thermal camera and it's a little more mature
That wouldn't be thermal infrared, which is what the question is about - it sounds like some variation of "night vision" ambient light enhancement. It isn't possible to do thermal imaging in the visible range, from behind glass, or using a sensor that can see visible light as well (unless it is cooled into the liquid nitrogen range.)
JeffK
Well-Known Member
No, question was regarding "night vision" which is not necessarily thermal imaging.
Near infrared, as you probably know, does pass through glass and can be picked up by modern sensors just fine along with visible light and is used in some night vision applications.
I do agree that thermal imaging might be a better technology choice for this application though. Stuff like FLIR is doing with combining thermal sensors with regular image sensors is very interesting and might be useful for animal detection purposes. Their entire lineup is pretty impressive but I just wish prices would come down.
It was presented in context with the Caddy Thermal video and I thought the implication was "do the same thing", but I'll grant that the usage was ambiguous and could mean near IR.
I kinda expect to see AP3 hardware around the time Tesla actually gets regulatory approval for FSDC - before if it turns out they can't get it with AP2, or somewhat after as a rolling upgrade after Tesla understands what it takes to make a real level 5 car - and I'm hoping it'll include forward thermal vision and rear radar. It's not just useful for animals at night - sensor fusion will make for better pedestrian and cyclist detection too - and as long as the Tesla is trying to understand a world of ICE cars, it'll help with them.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
I've considered this too, do you think it's possible they might find shortcomings in AP2 hardware and adjust before the Model 3 comes out?
I hope that is tuneable, as I want Moose given a high priority (up there with trees).
They have. My IR camera was over $5k, a comparable one is now half that.
Thank you kindly
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