Sadly, the consequences of Tesla's choice of driver monitoring system (torque on steering wheel) are now coming back to bite them royally in the behind, as they have been forced to take away nice things that arguably they should not have provided in the first place (eg nag-free AutoPilot 7.0).
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Defeating the Autopilot Nag
- Thread starter eclectricdave
- Start date
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garyjac
Member
Never had a problem with it, including the current 21.9 release on a long drive last week. It seems to me that people must not be keeping at least one hand on the wheel. I don't find that very difficult.
Mark E
Member
I'm inclined to agree. I drive with a hand on the wheel pretty well all the time and rarely get nagged.
raynewman
Active Member
garyjac
Member
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
Plus --- where else are you going to put your hands? Kind of uncomfortable to sit there with your hands on your lap, or on the armrests. It takes more effort for me to keep my hands off the wheel.
As soon as L4 comes around and the steering wheel is removed, these very same nag-complainers are going to be whining there is no place to put their hands.
garyjac
Member
doctorwho
Active Member
It's certainly more peaceful inside my car without a 25-second nag, and a lot safer. I can't see how constant torque on one side of the wheel is safer and I can't see how looking down at the nag every 25 seconds is safer. I also can't see how using the AP less often because it drives me crazy is saferIs that a "defeat" or merely "peace in our time" ?
I delayed updates for about a year before opting in (right *before* the last update, thankfully). I think there are still some 7.1 firmwares still out there, but they're starting to lose functionality as the back-end API changes to something incompatible. They may no longer have full map and/or navigation anymore (though I'm not 100% sure about that).
WhiteStar
Member
I’m on 2018.18.2 and don’t have full map and/or navigation but great to know thanks!
garyjac
Member
Deary me Doctor, did we get out of the Tardis on the wrong side of the 7th dimension today ?
First world problem.
doctorwho
Active Member
Yes, it is a first world problem. Given the stats that Tesla have already released that show a reduction in crash rates with AP use, surely use should be encouraged rather than discouraged. There's a ton of first world research that shows that reward with some punishment (biased towards reward) is the most effective way to reinforce a behaviour. This is a poor strategy from Tesla and it won't help to achieve safe use of AP.
@ 06:21 "...we've been able to accelerate autopilot, and bring it to market faster than originally anticipated..."
@ 07:26 "...it's able to read stop signs, distinguish pedestrians, look at traffic lights..."
@ 08:48 "... it will brake if it sees any object you will collide with..."
- Elon Musk/2014 - AP Event
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doctorwho
Active Member
There's no doubt that we require drivings to pay attention to the road whilst using AP but nagging drivers to apply torque to the wheel in no way equates to drivers paying attention. Humans are not multi-taskers. Our brains manufacture a perception of multitasking and a seamless contiguous surrounding reality but much of that is a reconstruction in our brains, really we serial task. Every nag is an interruption to our attention and can decrease our effectiveness behind the wheel. Tesla needs to find a way that encourages drivers to attend without distracting them or that encourages task compliance (holding the wheel) without necessarily encouraging attention
WhiteStar
Member
So, so true but it seems very possible that this was all ‘suggested’ by the NHTSA.
lennier
Member
I agree it's a poor strategy to achieve their stated aim of drivers 'paying attention' and in fact any attempts to legislate or regulate 'paying attention' I believe are inherently doomed to failure. However that said I discovered on my Mel/Syd/Mel trip the past few days that once I got used to resting my hand on the bottom of the wheel rather than elsewhere that it was probably only marginally less convenient and probably safer, since I no longer had to worry about nags at all and could keep my attention on the road. So their stated aim was in this case achieved, but highly dependant upon driver behaviour still!
doctorwho
Active Member
The risk is that it either leads to a reduction in AP use and an increase in crash rates (based on Tesla's own figures) or a focus on task compliance at the cost of attention to traffic conditions. I'm not suggesting that the system is perfect and Tesla should do nothing, just to put some more thought into it
Agreed; Serial vs. Multitasking.
I'm not too optimistic that Elon is capable of swallowing his pride and admitting he might be wrong on some things... Lidar vs Radar/ImgRec, Camera Monitoring vs. Wheel Torque Sensor.
I expect insurance rates will rise for existing AP equipped cars. I expect Tesla will eventually disable AutoSteer for S/X and leave us with TACC until their next gen. I also expect Tesla will issue partial AP refunds or suffer through a class action.
I hope I'm wrong.
doctorwho
Active Member
Here are some suggestions of how reward encourages compliance:
The car times driver contact with the wheel (no nags) and rewards drivers with things like a reduction in service fees, discounts on wheel upgrades etc. Discounted or free supercharger use for those cars without unlimited supercharging. Accumulated time able to be sold by those drivers who still have unlimited supercharging.
Instead of a nag, the car silently polls the wheel for signs of contact and uses this to reward the driver in similar ways. The driver isn't informed until the end of the trip, so can't anticipate the poll, nor is distracted by the process.
The current process is lazy and just doesn't understand how to use human nature to achieve the desired outcome
The car times driver contact with the wheel (no nags) and rewards drivers with things like a reduction in service fees, discounts on wheel upgrades etc. Discounted or free supercharger use for those cars without unlimited supercharging. Accumulated time able to be sold by those drivers who still have unlimited supercharging.
Instead of a nag, the car silently polls the wheel for signs of contact and uses this to reward the driver in similar ways. The driver isn't informed until the end of the trip, so can't anticipate the poll, nor is distracted by the process.
The current process is lazy and just doesn't understand how to use human nature to achieve the desired outcome
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