TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Defeating the Autopilot Nag

Discussion in 'Australia & New Zealand' started by eclectricdave, Jun 10, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MrAustraliaTax

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    215
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Sadly, the consequences of Tesla's choice of driver monitoring system (torque on steering wheel) are now coming back to bite them royally in the behind, as they have been forced to take away nice things that arguably they should not have provided in the first place (eg nag-free AutoPilot 7.0).
     
  2. garyjac

    garyjac Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    474
    Location:
    Brisbane, Queensland
    Never had a problem with it, including the current 21.9 release on a long drive last week. It seems to me that people must not be keeping at least one hand on the wheel. I don't find that very difficult.
     
    • Like x 4
    • Disagree x 1
  3. Mark E

    Mark E Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    811
    Location:
    Sydney NSW
    I'm inclined to agree. I drive with a hand on the wheel pretty well all the time and rarely get nagged.
     
    • Like x 1
  4. raynewman

    raynewman Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    1,140
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ahhh - but then you miss out on playing Tesla Whack-a-mole.
     
  5. garyjac

    garyjac Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    474
    Location:
    Brisbane, Queensland
    Maybe, but we don't want to encourage over-excitable Americans who do enough suing already :)
     
  6. doctorwho

    doctorwho Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    966
    Location:
    Eurobin, Victoria. Australia
    I've defeated the latest nag by not updating
     
    • Like x 1
  7. GlmnAlyAirCar

    GlmnAlyAirCar Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    952
    Location:
    Southeast PA
    Plus --- where else are you going to put your hands? Kind of uncomfortable to sit there with your hands on your lap, or on the armrests. It takes more effort for me to keep my hands off the wheel.

    As soon as L4 comes around and the steering wheel is removed, these very same nag-complainers are going to be whining there is no place to put their hands.
     
  8. garyjac

    garyjac Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    474
    Location:
    Brisbane, Queensland
    Is that a "defeat" or merely "peace in our time" ? :rolleyes:
     
    • Like x 1
  9. doctorwho

    doctorwho Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    966
    Location:
    Eurobin, Victoria. Australia
    It's certainly more peaceful inside my car without a 25-second nag, and a lot safer. I can't see how constant torque on one side of the wheel is safer and I can't see how looking down at the nag every 25 seconds is safer. I also can't see how using the AP less often because it drives me crazy is safer
     
    • Like x 1
  10. kavyboy

    kavyboy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2016
    Messages:
    560
    Location:
    Spring, TX
    I delayed updates for about a year before opting in (right *before* the last update, thankfully). I think there are still some 7.1 firmwares still out there, but they're starting to lose functionality as the back-end API changes to something incompatible. They may no longer have full map and/or navigation anymore (though I'm not 100% sure about that).
     
  11. WhiteStar

    WhiteStar Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    528
    Location:
    Sydney, AU
    I’m on 2018.18.2 and don’t have full map and/or navigation but great to know thanks!
     
  12. garyjac

    garyjac Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    474
    Location:
    Brisbane, Queensland
    Deary me Doctor, did we get out of the Tardis on the wrong side of the 7th dimension today ?
    First world problem.
     
  13. doctorwho

    doctorwho Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    966
    Location:
    Eurobin, Victoria. Australia
    Yes, it is a first world problem. Given the stats that Tesla have already released that show a reduction in crash rates with AP use, surely use should be encouraged rather than discouraged. There's a ton of first world research that shows that reward with some punishment (biased towards reward) is the most effective way to reinforce a behaviour. This is a poor strategy from Tesla and it won't help to achieve safe use of AP.
     
    • Like x 1
  14. aaron0k

    aaron0k Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    323
    Location:
    Walnut, CA
    #54 aaron0k, Jun 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018


    @ 06:21 "...we've been able to accelerate autopilot, and bring it to market faster than originally anticipated..."
    @ 07:26 "...it's able to read stop signs, distinguish pedestrians, look at traffic lights..."
    @ 08:48 "... it will brake if it sees any object you will collide with..."


    - Elon Musk/2014 - AP Event
     
  15. doctorwho

    doctorwho Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    966
    Location:
    Eurobin, Victoria. Australia
    There's no doubt that we require drivings to pay attention to the road whilst using AP but nagging drivers to apply torque to the wheel in no way equates to drivers paying attention. Humans are not multi-taskers. Our brains manufacture a perception of multitasking and a seamless contiguous surrounding reality but much of that is a reconstruction in our brains, really we serial task. Every nag is an interruption to our attention and can decrease our effectiveness behind the wheel. Tesla needs to find a way that encourages drivers to attend without distracting them or that encourages task compliance (holding the wheel) without necessarily encouraging attention
     
    • Like x 2
  16. WhiteStar

    WhiteStar Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    528
    Location:
    Sydney, AU
    So, so true but it seems very possible that this was all ‘suggested’ by the NHTSA.
     
  17. lennier

    lennier Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2015
    Messages:
    581
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    I agree it's a poor strategy to achieve their stated aim of drivers 'paying attention' and in fact any attempts to legislate or regulate 'paying attention' I believe are inherently doomed to failure. However that said I discovered on my Mel/Syd/Mel trip the past few days that once I got used to resting my hand on the bottom of the wheel rather than elsewhere that it was probably only marginally less convenient and probably safer, since I no longer had to worry about nags at all and could keep my attention on the road. So their stated aim was in this case achieved, but highly dependant upon driver behaviour still!
     
    • Like x 1
  18. doctorwho

    doctorwho Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    966
    Location:
    Eurobin, Victoria. Australia
    The risk is that it either leads to a reduction in AP use and an increase in crash rates (based on Tesla's own figures) or a focus on task compliance at the cost of attention to traffic conditions. I'm not suggesting that the system is perfect and Tesla should do nothing, just to put some more thought into it
     
  19. aaron0k

    aaron0k Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    323
    Location:
    Walnut, CA
    Agreed; Serial vs. Multitasking.

    I'm not too optimistic that Elon is capable of swallowing his pride and admitting he might be wrong on some things... Lidar vs Radar/ImgRec, Camera Monitoring vs. Wheel Torque Sensor.

    I expect insurance rates will rise for existing AP equipped cars. I expect Tesla will eventually disable AutoSteer for S/X and leave us with TACC until their next gen. I also expect Tesla will issue partial AP refunds or suffer through a class action.

    I hope I'm wrong.
     
  20. doctorwho

    doctorwho Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    966
    Location:
    Eurobin, Victoria. Australia
    Here are some suggestions of how reward encourages compliance:
    The car times driver contact with the wheel (no nags) and rewards drivers with things like a reduction in service fees, discounts on wheel upgrades etc. Discounted or free supercharger use for those cars without unlimited supercharging. Accumulated time able to be sold by those drivers who still have unlimited supercharging.

    Instead of a nag, the car silently polls the wheel for signs of contact and uses this to reward the driver in similar ways. The driver isn't informed until the end of the trip, so can't anticipate the poll, nor is distracted by the process.

    The current process is lazy and just doesn't understand how to use human nature to achieve the desired outcome
     
    • Like x 2
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC