Defective battery, Rude Service Center - Lemon Law time

[SomeJoe7777]

It will never do that. Not even close. It has never stayed above 100 Kw for long. I have not timed it.
It should last longer than 10 seconds though if you started out above 100 Kw.
It goes down quick because your adding at rate of over 500 mph.
You will never see over 100 Kw if SOC is over 50%

Most everything you've said follows the chart that was posted. You'll not on the Red line, but not that far off.

I don't have a lot of warm weather experience but if it sees the pack is to warm it will not charge fast either.
Just because it's 75F doesn't mean what your battery is at. You could have been pushing hard and battery is warm.
Or it was a cold night and warmed up fast, but the battery is not warm yet.

You'd really have to state a lot more parameters to judge if your battery has and issue.
But with what you have shown it's all feasible for "normal" behavior.

We'd all love to see 115 Kw for 40-50%. But that would be double what Tesla claims.
115 Kw is over 500 mph. 50% of a 310 mile range battery is 155 miles.

That would be 155 miles in 18 minutes. Sorry pal, that's not gonna happen.

Well, what can we say except that you're completely wrong.

Here is raw data directly from TeslaFi that shows a supercharging session in my Model 3, VIN 0047XX, on 7/11/2018:

Date/Time               State           Battery SOC     Charge Setpoint Rated Range     Energy Added    Rate (mi/hr Avg)        Charger Voltage Cabin Temp      Outside Temp    Rate kW
7/11/18 12:41 PM        Disconnected    27              90              84.39           0               0                       2               71              95              0
7/11/18 12:42 PM        Charging        27              90              84.81           0.1             256.9                   358             71              95              114
7/11/18 12:42 PM        Charging        29              90              91.14           1.6             419.9                   365             71              95              117
7/11/18 12:43 PM        Charging        32              90              98.73           3.4             451.1                   369             71              95              117
7/11/18 12:45 PM        Charging        34              90              107.17          5.4             464.8                   371             71              95              116
7/11/18 12:45 PM        Charging        36              90              114.35          7.1             470.3                   373             70              95              117
7/11/18 12:47 PM        Charging        39              90              122.36          9               474.6                   376             71              95              116
7/11/18 12:47 PM        Charging        41              90              129.96          10.8            477.1                   378             71              95              116
7/11/18 12:49 PM        Charging        44              90              137.97          12.7            479.4                   380             72              95              116
7/11/18 12:50 PM        Charging        46              90              145.57          14.6            480.8                   383             73              95              116
7/11/18 12:51 PM        Charging        49              90              154.01          16.5            482.1                   385             74              95              117
7/11/18 12:52 PM        Charging        51              90              161.6           18.3            482.7                   386             75              95              113
7/11/18 12:53 PM        Charging        53              90              168.35          19.9            480.9                   387             75              95              106
7/11/18 12:54 PM        Charging        56              90              175.11          21.5            477.6                   388             77              95              102
7/11/18 12:55 PM        Charging        58              90              181.86          23.1            473.3                   388             77              95              97
7/11/18 12:55 PM        Charging        60              90              187.34          24.4            468.3                   389             78              95              91
7/11/18 12:56 PM        Charging        62              90              193.67          25.9            461.7                   389             79              95              86
7/11/18 12:58 PM        Charging        63              90              200.42          27.5            454.5                   390             94              95              81
7/11/18 1:00 PM         Charging        67              90              209.7           29.7            440.5                   392             96              95              73
7/11/18 1:01 PM         Charging        68              90              215.19          31              433                     393             100             95              70
7/11/18 1:01 PM         Charging        70              90              219.41          32              426.7                   394             98              95              68
7/11/18 1:02 PM         Charging        71              90              224.05          33.1            419.8                   395             98              95              65
7/11/18 1:03 PM         Charging        72              90              228.27          34.1            412.8                   396             101             95              63
7/11/18 1:04 PM         Charging        74              90              232.07          35              407.1                   397             102             95              61
7/11/18 1:06 PM         Charging        75              90              236.71          36.1            399.5                   398             103             95              58
7/11/18 1:06 PM         Charging        76              90              240.51          37              393.8                   398             101             95              55
7/11/18 1:07 PM         Charging        77              90              244.3           37.9            387.1                   398             97              95              51
7/11/18 1:09 PM         Charging        79              90              247.26          38.6            380.4                   399             100             95              48
7/11/18 1:09 PM         Charging        80              90              251.05          39.5            374.2                   399             102             95              45
7/11/18 1:10 PM         Charging        81              90              254.01          40.2            367.7                   399             103             95              43
7/11/18 1:12 PM         Charging        82              90              256.96          40.9            360.9                   399             103             95              41
7/11/18 1:12 PM         Charging        83              90              259.07          41.4            355.9                   399             100             95              40
7/11/18 1:13 PM         Disconnected    83              90              262.03          42.1            0                       2               97              95              0

My charge here shows I'm at maximum charge rate (~115 kW) for more than 10 minutes, and above 100 kW for nearly 13 minutes.

I was still at maximum charge rate (115 kW) when the battery state of charge was crossed 50%.

I didn't get down to the stable value that the OP says is his "normal" charge rate of 74 kW until I was at 67% battery charge.

Oh right ... that was in the summer where it was 95F outside. Want to look at another one? Same vehicle, on 12/7/2018:

Date/Time               State           Battery SOC     Charge Setpoint Rated Range     Energy Added    Rate (mi/hr Avg)        Charger Voltage Cabin Temp      Outside Temp    Rate kW
12/7/18 10:20 AM        Disconnected    14              90              44.32           0               0                       1               68              46              0
12/7/18 10:22 AM        Charging        15              90              48.8            0.94            380                     355             68              46              113
12/7/18 10:23 AM        Charging        18              90              56.86           2.82            434.4                   360             68              47              113
12/7/18 10:24 AM        Charging        21              90              66.26           5.02            453.4                   364             68              47              113
12/7/18 10:25 AM        Charging        23              90              72.53           6.6             460                     367             68              47              113
12/7/18 10:26 AM        Charging        26              90              80.59           8.48            465.1                   369             66              47              113
12/7/18 10:27 AM        Charging        28              90              88.2            10.26           468.5                   371             64              47              113
12/7/18 10:28 AM        Charging        31              90              96.26           12.15           471.3                   373             64              47              115
12/7/18 10:29 AM        Charging        33              90              104.76          14.24           474.6                   376             64              47              115
12/7/18 10:30 AM        Charging        36              90              111.93          15.82           476.3                   377             64              47              115
12/7/18 10:31 AM        Charging        38              90              119.99          17.6            478.2                   380             64              47              115
12/7/18 10:32 AM        Charging        41              90              128.05          19.48           479.6                   382             78              47              115
12/7/18 10:33 AM        Charging        43              90              135.66          21.47           480.8                   384             88              47              115
12/7/18 10:34 AM        Charging        46              90              142.82          22.94           481.4                   385             92              47              112
12/7/18 10:35 AM        Charging        48              90              150.43          24.83           480.3                   386             93              47              106
12/7/18 10:36 AM        Charging        50              90              157.6           26.5            477.7                   387             93              47              100
12/7/18 10:37 AM        Charging        53              90              164.76          28.39           473.8                   387             93              47              95
12/7/18 10:38 AM        Charging        55              90              171.48          29.96           469.2                   388             93              48              90
12/7/18 10:39 AM        Charging        57              90              178.19          31.32           463.3                   389             92              48              84
12/7/18 10:40 AM        Charging        59              90              184.01          32.68           458                     389             92              48              80
12/7/18 10:41 AM        Charging        61              90              189.83          34.15           451.1                   390             92              48              75
12/7/18 10:42 AM        Charging        63              90              195.65          35.3            444.6                   391             91              48              72
12/7/18 10:43 AM        Charging        64              90              200.58          36.56           438.2                   391             91              48              69
12/7/18 10:44 AM                                                                                                                                                               
12/7/18 10:45 AM        Charging        67              90              209.98          38.86           425.5                   393             90              48              63
12/7/18 10:46 AM        Charging        69              90              214.91          39.81           419.3                   394             90              48              61
12/7/18 10:47 AM        Charging        70              90              218.49          40.85           413.2                   395             77              48              59
12/7/18 10:48 AM        Charging        71              90              222.96          41.8            406.7                   396             69              48              57
12/7/18 10:49 AM        Charging        73              90              227.44          42.74           400.6                   397             66              48              54
12/7/18 10:50 AM        Charging        74              90              230.58          43.58           395.3                   398             64              48              51
12/7/18 10:51 AM        Charging        75              90              234.16          44.52           389.3                   398             64              48              48
12/7/18 10:52 AM        Charging        76              90              237.74          45.26           383.3                   398             63              48              45
12/7/18 10:53 AM        Charging        77              90              240.87          45.88           377.3                   399             63              48              43
12/7/18 10:54 AM        Charging        78              90              244.01          46.72           371.7                   399             63              48              41
12/7/18 10:55 AM        Charging        79              90              246.69          47.35           365.9                   399             62              48              39
12/7/18 10:56 AM        Charging        80              90              249.38          47.98           360.2                   399             62              48              37
12/7/18 10:57 AM        Charging        81              90              252.07          48.71           354.8                   399             62              48              36
12/7/18 10:58 AM        Charging        82              90              254.75          49.34           348.9                   399             61              48              34
12/7/18 10:59 AM        Charging        83              90              257.44          49.86           343.5                   399             61              48              33
12/7/18 11:00 AM        Charging        83              90              259.23          50.49           338.5                   399             61              48              32
12/7/18 11:01 AM        Disconnected    84              90              261.02          50.6            0                       1               64              48              0

This time it's 48F outside. Same charge curve. 115kW for 12 minutes, over 100kW for 15 minutes, crossed 100kW at 50% SOC. 74kW at 63% SOC.

Dude, you can't sit there and claim "oh it'll never happen pal" when I have concrete evidence to the contrary.

 

[bedoig]

It will never do that. Not even close. It has never stayed above 100 Kw for long. I have not timed it.
It should last longer than 10 seconds though if you started out above 100 Kw.
It goes down quick because your adding at rate of over 500 mph.
You will never see over 100 Kw if SOC is over 50%

Here's a normal charge curve for me. 100kW at 55% though dropping at that point obviously. Over 100kW for 13+ minutes. This assumes proper conditions of course (road trip, well warmed battery, low SOC, ie the times you'd want to supercharge).

I thought the OP's situation could have been totally normal under certain conditions as well, but he did mention travelling several hundred miles in various, warm conditions, at a number of different supercharges. Doesn't seem normal to me.

@OP, I may be making this up but I thought I read recently about a similar issue that wound up being a cooling system defect of some kind. Maybe worth some searching around.

 

[bluetinc]

mswlogo,

I can assure you through personal 3 road-tripping experience that charging at ~115kW+ to almost 60% is quite normal (provided you are on an unpaired charger, your battery is warm, etc. etc.). You seem not to be listening to or reading the multitude of other users trying to explain to you that you are wrong.

--Peter


(edited out the note on signatures, I mixed two posts together in my head and attributed someone else's signature.

It will never do that. Not even close. It has never stayed above 100 Kw for long. I have not timed it.
It should last longer than 10 seconds though if you started out above 100 Kw.
It goes down quick because your adding at rate of over 500 mph.
You will never see over 100 Kw if SOC is over 50%

Most everything you've said follows the chart that was posted. You'll not on the Red line, but not that far off.

I don't have a lot of warm weather experience but if it sees the pack is to warm it will not charge fast either.
Just because it's 75F doesn't mean what your battery is at. You could have been pushing hard and battery is warm.
Or it was a cold night and warmed up fast, but the battery is not warm yet.

You'd really have to state a lot more parameters to judge if your battery has and issue.
But with what you have shown it's all feasible for "normal" behavior.

We'd all love to see 115 Kw for 40-50%. But that would be double what Tesla claims.
115 Kw is over 500 mph. 50% of a 310 mile range battery is 155 miles.

That would be 155 miles in 18 minutes. Sorry pal, that's not gonna happen.

 

[bluetinc]

vadimr,

This sounds like a long painful ordeal. Let me recommend a couple of things that might help you get to your goal, having your car charge normally at superchargers:

1. Try working this issue at a different service center. It sounds like Paramus made some mistakes, and you escalated the situation. Moving to another service center gives you a chance to start again with a clean slate. It looks like Springfield is only about 30 miles away. You could try working at Paramus, but it sounds like you would need to reset your interaction with them and start fresh, and it's not clear that you or they could at this point.

2. I know this is going to sound counter intuitive, but STOP pointing at the battery and saying it's bad. It seems to get everyone at Tesla on edge and they are very focused on only making sure that the battery is ok, rather than finding and fixing your problem.

3. When you do talk with them about why you need them to look at your car; Ask that they look into the cooling system of the car because you think there might be an issue. Explain that repeatably, when you start to supercharge your car ramps up correctly to the ~115kW you expect, but that it quickly ramps back down to ~70kW and holds there. Offer the data that you have (video would be best) if they need it. Then let them look at it from a different angle. It could be that your AC is not operating correctly, or a pump is bad, or a pump is mis-wired, a cooling line is crimped or otherwise blocked, etc etc.

4. Please don't mention the lemon laws and lawyers to Tesla, it's the quickest way to get them to shut down. You really just want them to do their job and look into and fix what is wrong with your car.

Then take it from there, Tesla will not be on edge as you did not walk in and start demanding that you need a new battery, or talk of lawyers. You can start from a more calm place, and hopefully Tesla can walk through what is really wrong with the car and fix this for you. -- Peter

Not all batteries are created equal; most are good, but do you want to know what happens when you get a bad one? If so, this is a story you may want to read.

...snip...

What else can I do? It’s not like there is another service center I can go to.

 

[mswlogo]

Well, what can we say except that you're completely wrong.

Here is raw data directly from TeslaFi that shows a supercharging session in my Model 3, VIN 0047XX, on 7/11/2018:

Date/Time               State           Battery SOC     Charge Setpoint Rated Range     Energy Added    Rate (mi/hr Avg)        Charger Voltage Cabin Temp      Outside Temp    Rate kW
7/11/18 12:41 PM        Disconnected    27              90              84.39           0               0                       2               71              95              0
7/11/18 12:42 PM        Charging        27              90              84.81           0.1             256.9                   358             71              95              114
7/11/18 12:42 PM        Charging        29              90              91.14           1.6             419.9                   365             71              95              117
7/11/18 12:43 PM        Charging        32              90              98.73           3.4             451.1                   369             71              95              117
7/11/18 12:45 PM        Charging        34              90              107.17          5.4             464.8                   371             71              95              116
7/11/18 12:45 PM        Charging        36              90              114.35          7.1             470.3                   373             70              95              117
7/11/18 12:47 PM        Charging        39              90              122.36          9               474.6                   376             71              95              116
7/11/18 12:47 PM        Charging        41              90              129.96          10.8            477.1                   378             71              95              116
7/11/18 12:49 PM        Charging        44              90              137.97          12.7            479.4                   380             72              95              116
7/11/18 12:50 PM        Charging        46              90              145.57          14.6            480.8                   383             73              95              116
7/11/18 12:51 PM        Charging        49              90              154.01          16.5            482.1                   385             74              95              117
7/11/18 12:52 PM        Charging        51              90              161.6           18.3            482.7                   386             75              95              113
7/11/18 12:53 PM        Charging        53              90              168.35          19.9            480.9                   387             75              95              106
7/11/18 12:54 PM        Charging        56              90              175.11          21.5            477.6                   388             77              95              102
7/11/18 12:55 PM        Charging        58              90              181.86          23.1            473.3                   388             77              95              97
7/11/18 12:55 PM        Charging        60              90              187.34          24.4            468.3                   389             78              95              91
7/11/18 12:56 PM        Charging        62              90              193.67          25.9            461.7                   389             79              95              86
7/11/18 12:58 PM        Charging        63              90              200.42          27.5            454.5                   390             94              95              81
7/11/18 1:00 PM         Charging        67              90              209.7           29.7            440.5                   392             96              95              73
7/11/18 1:01 PM         Charging        68              90              215.19          31              433                     393             100             95              70
7/11/18 1:01 PM         Charging        70              90              219.41          32              426.7                   394             98              95              68
7/11/18 1:02 PM         Charging        71              90              224.05          33.1            419.8                   395             98              95              65
7/11/18 1:03 PM         Charging        72              90              228.27          34.1            412.8                   396             101             95              63
7/11/18 1:04 PM         Charging        74              90              232.07          35              407.1                   397             102             95              61
7/11/18 1:06 PM         Charging        75              90              236.71          36.1            399.5                   398             103             95              58
7/11/18 1:06 PM         Charging        76              90              240.51          37              393.8                   398             101             95              55
7/11/18 1:07 PM         Charging        77              90              244.3           37.9            387.1                   398             97              95              51
7/11/18 1:09 PM         Charging        79              90              247.26          38.6            380.4                   399             100             95              48
7/11/18 1:09 PM         Charging        80              90              251.05          39.5            374.2                   399             102             95              45
7/11/18 1:10 PM         Charging        81              90              254.01          40.2            367.7                   399             103             95              43
7/11/18 1:12 PM         Charging        82              90              256.96          40.9            360.9                   399             103             95              41
7/11/18 1:12 PM         Charging        83              90              259.07          41.4            355.9                   399             100             95              40
7/11/18 1:13 PM         Disconnected    83              90              262.03          42.1            0                       2               97              95              0

My charge here shows I'm at maximum charge rate (~115 kW) for more than 10 minutes, and above 100 kW for nearly 13 minutes.

I was still at maximum charge rate (115 kW) when the battery state of charge was crossed 50%.

I didn't get down to the stable value that the OP says is his "normal" charge rate of 74 kW until I was at 67% battery charge.

Oh right ... that was in the summer where it was 95F outside. Want to look at another one? Same vehicle, on 12/7/2018:

Date/Time               State           Battery SOC     Charge Setpoint Rated Range     Energy Added    Rate (mi/hr Avg)        Charger Voltage Cabin Temp      Outside Temp    Rate kW
12/7/18 10:20 AM        Disconnected    14              90              44.32           0               0                       1               68              46              0
12/7/18 10:22 AM        Charging        15              90              48.8            0.94            380                     355             68              46              113
12/7/18 10:23 AM        Charging        18              90              56.86           2.82            434.4                   360             68              47              113
12/7/18 10:24 AM        Charging        21              90              66.26           5.02            453.4                   364             68              47              113
12/7/18 10:25 AM        Charging        23              90              72.53           6.6             460                     367             68              47              113
12/7/18 10:26 AM        Charging        26              90              80.59           8.48            465.1                   369             66              47              113
12/7/18 10:27 AM        Charging        28              90              88.2            10.26           468.5                   371             64              47              113
12/7/18 10:28 AM        Charging        31              90              96.26           12.15           471.3                   373             64              47              115
12/7/18 10:29 AM        Charging        33              90              104.76          14.24           474.6                   376             64              47              115
12/7/18 10:30 AM        Charging        36              90              111.93          15.82           476.3                   377             64              47              115
12/7/18 10:31 AM        Charging        38              90              119.99          17.6            478.2                   380             64              47              115
12/7/18 10:32 AM        Charging        41              90              128.05          19.48           479.6                   382             78              47              115
12/7/18 10:33 AM        Charging        43              90              135.66          21.47           480.8                   384             88              47              115
12/7/18 10:34 AM        Charging        46              90              142.82          22.94           481.4                   385             92              47              112
12/7/18 10:35 AM        Charging        48              90              150.43          24.83           480.3                   386             93              47              106
12/7/18 10:36 AM        Charging        50              90              157.6           26.5            477.7                   387             93              47              100
12/7/18 10:37 AM        Charging        53              90              164.76          28.39           473.8                   387             93              47              95
12/7/18 10:38 AM        Charging        55              90              171.48          29.96           469.2                   388             93              48              90
12/7/18 10:39 AM        Charging        57              90              178.19          31.32           463.3                   389             92              48              84
12/7/18 10:40 AM        Charging        59              90              184.01          32.68           458                     389             92              48              80
12/7/18 10:41 AM        Charging        61              90              189.83          34.15           451.1                   390             92              48              75
12/7/18 10:42 AM        Charging        63              90              195.65          35.3            444.6                   391             91              48              72
12/7/18 10:43 AM        Charging        64              90              200.58          36.56           438.2                   391             91              48              69
12/7/18 10:44 AM                                                                                                                                                             
12/7/18 10:45 AM        Charging        67              90              209.98          38.86           425.5                   393             90              48              63
12/7/18 10:46 AM        Charging        69              90              214.91          39.81           419.3                   394             90              48              61
12/7/18 10:47 AM        Charging        70              90              218.49          40.85           413.2                   395             77              48              59
12/7/18 10:48 AM        Charging        71              90              222.96          41.8            406.7                   396             69              48              57
12/7/18 10:49 AM        Charging        73              90              227.44          42.74           400.6                   397             66              48              54
12/7/18 10:50 AM        Charging        74              90              230.58          43.58           395.3                   398             64              48              51
12/7/18 10:51 AM        Charging        75              90              234.16          44.52           389.3                   398             64              48              48
12/7/18 10:52 AM        Charging        76              90              237.74          45.26           383.3                   398             63              48              45
12/7/18 10:53 AM        Charging        77              90              240.87          45.88           377.3                   399             63              48              43
12/7/18 10:54 AM        Charging        78              90              244.01          46.72           371.7                   399             63              48              41
12/7/18 10:55 AM        Charging        79              90              246.69          47.35           365.9                   399             62              48              39
12/7/18 10:56 AM        Charging        80              90              249.38          47.98           360.2                   399             62              48              37
12/7/18 10:57 AM        Charging        81              90              252.07          48.71           354.8                   399             62              48              36
12/7/18 10:58 AM        Charging        82              90              254.75          49.34           348.9                   399             61              48              34
12/7/18 10:59 AM        Charging        83              90              257.44          49.86           343.5                   399             61              48              33
12/7/18 11:00 AM        Charging        83              90              259.23          50.49           338.5                   399             61              48              32
12/7/18 11:01 AM        Disconnected    84              90              261.02          50.6            0                       1               64              48              0

This time it's 48F outside. Same charge curve. 115kW for 12 minutes, over 100kW for 15 minutes, crossed 100kW at 50% SOC. 74kW at 63% SOC.

Dude, you can't sit there and claim "oh it'll never happen pal" when I have concrete evidence to the contrary.

You dropped below 100Kw at 50%. Just like I said. In another charge. You did last to 58 in another.
You dropped below 115Kw at 43%.

Ok I was off a couple percent and don't have that kind of detailed data.

He said he expected 115 Kw for 40-50% of charge (not 40-50% SOC) but half his charge session he expects to be 115Kw.
Which your data clearly shows does not happen.

Thanks for proving my point.

Great data !!

12 minutes isn't very long. He claims a few seconds and expects half hour. He needs more data to show it. Everything he has shown looks normal. And his opening message doesn't show much of anything to bring it to a SC.

Don't get me wrong. There could be a problem. He knows it. But he needs better data to show it. And more info about the conditions.

 

[mswlogo]

I took a trip after I got my car and here are some charge numbers..with warm battery from driving...(sorry for the horrible format)

(Outside Temp) (SOC Start) (kw start) (SOC End) (kw End) Time
34 20 113 30 112 4
35 30 116 40 113 4
35 40 116 50 107 10
30 40 86 50 72 4
36 50 107 70 66 11
37 70 66 80 41 18

These weren't all necessarily from the same charging stop. This does show however that staying above 100kw is possible at least for me for up to 18 minutes at least from 20-50% SOC.

Yeah but he's asking for something on the order of 20-70% SOC (40-50% of his charge) to be at 115 Kw.
That's what I was indicating is unrealistic.

That's why I think this is bogus. What he expects is not realistic. And if he makes demands like that he will get no where, even if he does have a bad battery.

 

[bluetinc]

Snip... 12 minutes isn't very long. Snip

And isn't that the really cool thing! Tesla now has a car that WILL charge at about 115kW to about 60%!!! And it does only take ~12 minutes to charge from ~20%-60%!!!

Now imagine if you were only charging at 115kW for a few seconds, and then it ramped down to about ~60kW, it would take almost 30 minutes to get to that same point. That would suck, wouldn't it? -- Peter

 

[bedoig]

He explicitly stated he just wants to be able to stay above ~75 kW for more than a few seconds at a time which he has never been able to do across multiple trips, at multiple locations, in optimal conditions. He either hit every single supercharger while it was having a bad day or he has a legitimate issue.

 

[GregRF]

He said he expected 115 Kw for 40-50% of charge (not 40-50% SOC) but half his charge session he expects to be 115Kw.

Yeah but he's asking for something on the order of 20-70% SOC (40-50% of his charge) to be at 115 Kw.
That's what I was indicating is unrealistic.

That's why I think this is bogus. What he expects is not realistic. And if he makes demands like that he will get no where, even if he does have a bad battery.

I've read this whole thread, I don't think he ever said anything like this.

 

[mswlogo]

I've read this whole thread, I don't think he ever said anything like this.

You're right it wasn't OP. SomeJoe7777 did, who I disagreed with.

That is nowhere near normal supercharging speed.

If pack temperature is 75F or above and you're not paired with another vehicle that's charging, you should be getting a 115 kW charge rate, and it should be sustained until 40-50% state-of-charge in a Model 3.

But I stand corrected that he did say until not for 40-50%, my bad.

I have never seen anything close to 115 kw at 50% either. But around 100 Kw, yeah.

 

[Krugerrand]

OMG!

Does nobody in this world know how to communicate effectively and with respect when you want something from the other person?!?!

Yeah, I get you say they lied but when you accuse someone, even if they did it, they’re no longer going to want to help you, ever. There’s a way to deal with liars without being confrontational and getting them on your side - but that’s for another day.

Getting what you want 101

Pick a different SC that doesn’t know you or your reputation. Get there with your car below 50% charge and simply take the technician out with you to a SuperCharger and show him/her the problem you are having. Feel free to have additional information with you of other people with Model 3s (not Ss or Xs) and their Supercharging rates IF and only IF the technichian isn’t knowledgeable about Model 3 charge rates.

Don’t tell them what you think is wrong with your car because it’ll be their natural tendency to just check that and you might actually be wrong about what’s wrong with your car. It’s their job to diagnose, not yours.

And for Pete’s sake don’t go on and on about bad service at the other SC, or lemon law or lawyer crap, or how you had to listen to your kid cry, the latter a whole other issue for another forum.

Be patient, respectful but persistent if you have to. Don’t talk incessantly about the issue or what you’ve been through, keep to the facts of your problem, nothing more, nothing less. Crack a joke, smile to start things off on the right foot. Be pleasant even if you find the whole thing frustrating.

FYI, I have over 25k miles on my 3 including several road trips, one over 3,000 miles. I don’t have a clue what my car specifically charges at because I plug in and go pee, then get more liquids so I can go pee again at the next stop. But I know I regularly go from 20%-80% charge in under 40 minutes. I know that after 80% it slows down a good amount and I’m guessing here, but it takes about another 10 minutes to go from 80-90%.

 

[robski]

OP - I may have missed it but have you tried rolling into an SC at say <5% SOC? Maybe try that and see if it maintains a respectable rate for a period of time.

I'm not aware of any SLAs on charging rates, especially if it's a free service (I don't know if that's true for you or not), but sucks to hear nonetheless.

I was reading up on Supercharging just now and learned that urban area chargers do not share A and B power between them. Each has a dedicated power source so no need to look for an unused post. OP - you forced me to learn something today so thanks.

 

[mike123abc]

If I arrive at my usual charging station after driving a couple hours and below 10% SOC, I hit 120 easy within 3 minutes. It even flickers to 121 on occasion until it reaches about 47% Then it starts to drop down. I drive the same route regularly and regularly do this charge. The temperature this time of year is usually in the upper 40s, lower 50s. I regularly charge to 50% then drive to my office and put it on my HPWC charger. Doing the 15 minute supercharge saves me about 3 hours on the HPWC - by the time I leave the office a few hours later I am back up to 90%.

 

[TomHudson]

Just an additional data point re: other high-end service: A friend of mine was a BMW mechanic at a dealership in New York for a time. He did a good job troubleshooting and fixing cars, but at one point his manager took him aside and told him he wasn't "replacing enough parts". Dandy.

So far I've only dealt with Tesla's mobile service staff, and have had exceptionally good service. *knocking on wood*

 

[DrDabbles]

We pulled over somewhere in CT to Supercharge. It was an 8-stall supercharger with nobody else present.

I have noticed that the chargers on CT-15, which Tesla and Google love to route you through, are not very good. I've had fantastic luck at the Bonstpost Road charger at the mall, though. And another one at Five Guys. I think I got 80+ kW at both of those locations. Rt 15 sucks anyway, so I ignore the navigation system when driving through CT.

The temperature was on the warmer side, somewhere in the mid 70s

The pack temp is what matters more. But coming from NJ up to CT, the pack should have been up to temp at that point.

our state of charge was around 30%.

That's a little high to get the maximum rate, but not too bad.

The charge rate was very slow, like 30kW. I tried another stall and once again it was low. I tried a 3rd one and was able to get about 60kW.

This was a problem with the charger location. I've got three chargers near me I've tried, and they rarely go above 60kW. Like, once in the past 5 months. Most of the time it's 35-50kW. When you change stalls at the same location and get different speeds, that's a classic sign that the station itself isn't able to deliver full power.

I plugged the car in and was pleasantly surprised to see the charge rate shoot up to 113kW! Yay! However it was very short lived, within 1 minute the charge rate had dropped to 74kW and as the car charged the rate would decrease quite rapidly.

You shouldn't expect your car to hang around at 100kW rates for very long. It won't. I get a couple minutes at those speeds, and then my charge rate starts decreasing. If I'm at a decent location, I end up around 75-85kW. At a guess, I'd say within 5 minutes of reaching my peak charge rate.

I decided to call Tesla and the person remotely connected to my car, asked about the weather, which stall I was at and confirmed that they are seeing my slower charge rate and that they are not seeing any other errors or any issues with the Supercharger.

There doesn't need to be an error to cause a slow charge rate. There are too many factors to count, but they aren't errors necessarily. Like I said, my perfectly working local chargers rarely exceed 60kW.

She advised to try again at another Supercharger. Since we were spending an entire week on the Cape we came back to the same charger a few days later and the results were identical!

Well yeah. Same charger, same result.

On the way back home we stopped once again at the Supercharger we stopped on the way up and once again the charge rate was somewhere between 60-70kW before tapering off to about 20kW.

Where was the charger, and what was your state of charge during the 20kW rate? Looking at the states you're listing, CT and NJ are per-minute pricing which probably means you're charging at Tier 1 speeds (60kW and lower). In MA they have per-kWh pricing which is the same cost regardless of charge speed.

I found a great charger in Mansfield, MA that I was completely alone at one night, and I got 118kW rate. The fastest my car has ever charged, and it was charging at that speed the longest it has ever done. So long that the fans came on full speed multiple times. That is the only charger I've visited from NH to VA that has charged that fast for that long.

At this point I began to wonder, perhaps I have a defective battery?

This would most likely show up as missing range as well as low supercharging speeds. So you should check for unexplained lost range as a good data point. Also, Tesla has a TSB for packs that may have had faulty cold welds on the connecting wires for batteries in the pack. They can remotely diagnose that, though, and it would have been one of the things they would have checked.

Perhaps the internal resistance is too high?

The BMS would give you an error if this was the case.

Since getting into R/C back in the 2006 I’ve been playing a lot of with Lithium Polymer batteries and from my experience I am well aware that a slow charge rate on a pack with multiple cells in a series usually indicates unbalanced cells with some having Internal Resistance higher than others.

That isn't what's happening here. The BMS gives an error when the cells are out of balance or when some cells experience higher resistance. It actually keeps the cells within milivolts of each other just as a normal course of maintenance.

I take a trip to PA.

Another per-minute state.

Once again same results, peak to 114kW or similar and right away drop back down to 68-74kW.

I'm going to be a stickler for this, but you need to gather SoC information when reporting that charge rates drop off. It is expected that your rate will decline pretty rapidly just before the pack hits the 50% mark. Since you're familiar with LiPo batteries, you should be pretty familiar with this CC/CV charge profile.

I check with the other person and I notice he is charging somewhere way past 100kW.

Without knowing their vehicle type, pack size, and SoC, this isn't really helpful.

I took a few more trips with the most recent one being to VA and once again the results were identical. Peak to 114kW and back down to 68-74kW.

I was recently in the Tyson's Corner / Reston / Herndon area in VA. Their superchargers suck down there. I couldn't believe how slow my charge rate was, no matter the time of day or whether there were other people charging. I was absolutely blown away. I'm surprised you got ~70kW, because I visited three locations and got mid 60s maximum. Most of them were in the 30-40kW range. I actually ended up using a J1772 charger at one of the locations I needed to visit rather than a supercharger because the ones in NoVA suck so much.

This is also quite annoying because the States where they charge for supercharging per minute the charge rate above 60kW is double the price of what is below 60kW.

Sure, but you were complaining that you weren't charging at over 60kW because it's slow and now you're complaining that you were charging over 60kW but it's expensive? The majority of states in the US are per-minute pricing, and most of those places I've visited end up dropping me to 60kW or less.

I’ve put in a few requests over the phone and each time I was told remote troubleshooting had been performed and no issues were found.

This is actually probably more likely true that you want to believe. Again, there are too many reasons a charger can be slow, and a problem with the battery pack is just one of them.

Finally, the straw the broke the camels back was when I was travelling with my 1-year old and he was crying the entire time we were sitting at the supercharger. Hearing him cry and not being able to do anything about it (dark and scatchy area) I decided I needed to bring the car in.

Oh, I see. A parent complains about their kid crying and everyone feels bad. I complain about someone's kid crying and I'm a childless monster. I get it.

I had to listen to him cry for basically extra 20 minutes because my car is defective.

I'd bet your car isn't actually defective. Either way, a 1 year old is going to cry. Not much Tesla can do for that.

You got an appointment? We have nothing here for you. After 10 minutes of running around they said that they did remote diagnostics and my car is fine and they cancelled the appointment.

Classic Tesla. A random person probably wrote your appointment on a post-it note and it never got booked. They seriously need to address their service department inconsistencies. I'd love to sit in a high level department meeting and just grill executives about who is running service, why are they doing it so poorly, and WTF are they doing to fix it. Booking appointments is the easiest part of the job, but the seem to mess that up more often than anything else.

They took the car in and put me in a Kia!!!

It's a free service loaner. Their loaner fleet is apparently managed by Enterprise, BTW. So whatever they have and deliver to Tesla for you is usually what you get.

This was too much to stomach.

That seems a bit over the top, honestly. Someone hadn't shown up yet. Crappy things happen. What if they were late to work because they were delayed dropping their kid off at day care, or something bad happened and they were still rushing to get to work to deal with customers?

They tried like a dozen times and never were able to obtain a charge rate above 68kW.

If the charger was actually at their location, it's very unlikely that they have the utilities required to run a 120kW DC fast charger at full speed. Especially if there's more than one stall on the charger.

Same thing, 68-74kW charge rate. Then I noticed they plugged it into a regular charger and set the climate control to 80 degrees. Following that 30 minutes later they tried the supercharger again, once again the results were the same. 68kW. Finally they just gave up and left it there.

This seems like a totally reasonable charger test, honestly. Checking contactors, checking the DC charger circuitry, checking cell balances, resetting the BMS maybe, verifying that the charge rate to the cells themselves is within spec, etc. The AC charger runs the heater when it's plugged in, so turning the heat to 80 was likely enough to make it pull a full 11kW from the wall, which verifies the AC charger works properly too. Yeah, I'd say this sounds like they actually did test your pack. And the fact that they did all this without knowing the app was still connected lends a lot of credibility to the fact that they really did test the thing. Otherwise, I'd have probably just taken the car from you to make you feel like I did something, and plug it in so it was charged up for you when you got back.

I replied asking how come it was not fixed as I noticed it was charging quite slowly.

What was the state of charge? Without this information, any time you say it's charging slowly, we can't really help you.

He began reading the notes, which clearly stated they did nothing.

Ok, but you saw they plug it in, unplug it, drive it, plug it into an A/C charger, etc. So they clearly did something. What did you expect them to do that they didn't do?

He says 113kW! Really? I tell him I’ve been watching the process the entire time from my phone. He is caught red-handed and starts telling me that I could not have seen that because they disable the app.

Yeah, but he had a photo of it charging at that speed. So you didn't catch anybody red handed. Clearly you're frustrated. But you're taking it out on the wrong people, and you're not going to get anywhere yelling at them. Talk to a manager, explain your concerns and ask them to describe to you what you should expect from supercharging. Not all superchargers are going to give you full speed, and not all states of charge are either. That's just a fact.

What is it that you want Tesla to do that they haven't already done?

 

[dgatwood]

FWIW, I've seen huge variation from one supercharger to the next. At three out of the five superchargers I've used, I've encountered at least one station that was either mostly dead (maxing out at 33 kW) or all dead (check charge cable). My rule is that if it hasn't ramped in 60 seconds, change spots. Repeat until you get a working stack.

I've seen the problems where it jumps rapidly back and forth between charge speeds, too. It always went away after switching chargers, though, which suggests a problem with the charger and/or the cables.

My "favorite" supercharger is Mountain View. At one point a few weeks ago, after encountering a bad charge rate at one stall and a completely dead charger at another, I called them about it, and they told me that out of 12 stations, only one single stall was showing as "healthy". And that seems to be the norm. When Sunnyvale came online, I was shocked at how much faster it was than Mountain View. Turns out I had just gotten used to the charge speed at a supercharger where NONE of the chargers charge at full speed most of the time, even when the current-shared stall is empty.

In other words, they may be right. Your car may be fine, and you might have simply hit multiple bad superchargers. It's not as uncommon as you might think.

 

[gilscales]

What is the app you are using?

EV trip optimizer IOS app for iphone

 

[gilscales]

No, he's expecting to be at 115 Kw for 40-50% of his charge.

Nowhere in any of the OP's post has he said anything remotely like this, I think the OP was expecting what most people get when the start at a low state of charge with reasonable temperatures, like in my graphs.

Tesla may imply that you always get 170 miles in 40 minutes

Tesla claims 170 miles in 30 minutes and as you can see by my graphs this is a conservative number as I think one of them shows 186 mi. in 31 minutes.

 

[gilscales]

He said he expected 115 Kw for 40-50% of charge

Please show me where the OP said this? did I miss it? if so I will admit that I am wrong and I apologize.

 

[gilscales]

I have never seen anything close to 115 kw at 50% either. But around 100 Kw, yeah.

I have not kept 115kw to 50% either so you are correct here but I think I do stay there until say 47 to 48% at least before ramping down and at 55% before dropping below 100kw, it appears to me the OP has a legitimate beef with his slower than normal charging speeds.