Defective battery, Rude Service Center - Lemon Law time

[mswlogo]

I have not kept 115kw to 50% either so you are correct here but I think I do stay there until say 47 to 48% at least before ramping down and at 55% before dropping below 100kw, it appears to me the OP has a legitimate beef with his slower than normal charging speeds.

I corrected myself in an earlier post. I can’t edit my error. It was someone else and I missed it was 40-50% SOC not 40-50% of his charge session. It was clear which post I responded to initially. I hate this site that you can’t go back and edit. Or I would. I’ll get Beaten up forever now.

I unwatching thread.

 

[R.S]

OMG!

Does nobody in this world know how to communicate effectively and with respect when you want something from the other person?!?!

Yeah, I get you say they lied but when you accuse someone, even if they did it, they’re no longer going to want to help you, ever. There’s a way to deal with liars without being confrontational and getting them on your side - but that’s for another day.

Getting what you want 101

Pick a different SC that doesn’t know you or your reputation. Get there with your car below 50% charge and simply take the technician out with you to a SuperCharger and show him/her the problem you are having. Feel free to have additional information with you of other people with Model 3s (not Ss or Xs) and their Supercharging rates IF and only IF the technichian isn’t knowledgeable about Model 3 charge rates.

Don’t tell them what you think is wrong with your car because it’ll be their natural tendency to just check that and you might actually be wrong about what’s wrong with your car. It’s their job to diagnose, not yours.

And for Pete’s sake don’t go on and on about bad service at the other SC, or lemon law or lawyer crap, or how you had to listen to your kid cry, the latter a whole other issue for another forum.

Be patient, respectful but persistent if you have to. Don’t talk incessantly about the issue or what you’ve been through, keep to the facts of your problem, nothing more, nothing less. Crack a joke, smile to start things off on the right foot. Be pleasant even if you find the whole thing frustrating.

FYI, I have over 25k miles on my 3 including several road trips, one over 3,000 miles. I don’t have a clue what my car specifically charges at because I plug in and go pee, then get more liquids so I can go pee again at the next stop. But I know I regularly go from 20%-80% charge in under 40 minutes. I know that after 80% it slows down a good amount and I’m guessing here, but it takes about another 10 minutes to go from 80-90%.

I don’t think he is really to blame here. They wouldn’t have helped him anyway. He told them something is wrong, they saw something was wrong, but told him everything is fine.

What should his next step have been? Agree and just leave?

Sure, we all agree that now he should try another SC and hope they will fix it. But IMO he could not have come out any better in this situation. Though of course he should try a fresh start at the next SC. It’s not their fault, their colleagues are idiots.

I also don’t think they are too influenced by your own idea of what might be wrong. Battery would probably be their first instinct, too. And if it wouldn’t be, then you sure couldn’t convince them that it is. They are the experts and they know it. If they wouldn’t know better than you, you’d have a problem already. Worst case scenario they will role their eyes at your idea.

 

[davedavedave]

You will never see over 100 Kw if SOC is over 50%

Most everything you've said follows the chart that was posted.
.

My supercharging experience looks like the red-line on the graph - sometimes better, and I most definitely have seen >100Kw with over 50% SOC. From what you're saying I believe that you're misreading that chart, because it also shows the curve dipping below 100kh somewhere between 50% and 60% SOC. Perhaps your car also has impaired charging?

 

[ohmman]

@OP, I may be making this up but I thought I read recently about a similar issue that wound up being a cooling system defect of some kind. Maybe worth some searching around.

This is a worthwhile path to follow. I'm assuming/hoping the Service Center checked that out. My X had a cooling system issue that was systemic on the early ones off the line (crossed coolant lines), but it was obvious there was an issue because the system would be screaming at Superchargers and could be heard across the parking lot. I would also get a message indicating that cabin cooling was limited due to battery management. I can't recall the exact text of that message.

FWIW, I would just continue to push Tesla on this, @vadimr. You may have temporarily soured the relationship with the local Service Center, but there are others to choose from. Or, preferably, you can go in face to face and discuss the confrontation with them and make things better. "I'm sorry I lost my cool with you, but from the evidence I had, I felt as if you were not being honest with me. Maybe I was mistaken, but I am still experiencing this issue and I'm frustrated.." etc. Open the door to redeveloping that relationship, even if it means being more humble than logic would suggest, and I bet there's a solution ahead for you.

Good luck, I would also be frustrated if my charge rates were below expected rates on a consistent basis. I rarely see anything above 100kW on my S and X for anything more than a few minutes, but I know Model 3s are more capable at Supercharging.

 

[anthonyj]

My home town of Paramus, NJ!

I’m surprised. I really like that service center. The Superchargers there are extremely slow I will admit

 

[robski]

He told them something is wrong, they saw something was wrong, but told him everything is fine.

There's 2 sides to every story. That was his interpretation of their troubleshooting, but you could also argue that they spent a lot of time on the car trying reproduce his claim yet couldn't. I'm inclined to believe the latter and that they made their best effort.

I'm not saying there's nothing wrong - all I'm saying is he needs to present better/more evidence to the SC if he wants to take it further.

 

[R.S]

There's 2 sides to every story. That was his interpretation of their troubleshooting, but you could also argue that they spent a lot of time on the car trying reproduce his claim yet couldn't. I'm inclined to believe the latter and that they made their best effort.

I'm not saying there's nothing wrong - all I'm saying is he needs to present better/more evidence to the SC if he wants to take it further.

But he wrote, that they tried it to charge several times at their own supercharger and the same thing always happened, as he described to them would happen. Very short 100 kW+ then dropping to 70 something. He actually has seen it on the app.

Finally on the 3rd day at 4pm the car was pulled into the shop. They forgot to disable the app so I was getting all these updates where they kept plugging it and unplugging it from the internal supercharger. They tried like a dozen times and never were able to obtain a charge rate above 68kW. The car’s state of charge at that time was 17%, so they bumped it up to 25% and left it inside overnight. I suppose to let it warm up. The next morning the process began, plugged, unplugged, plugged, unplugged. Than someone went on a 30-mile road trip and back again to the supercharger. Same thing, 68-74kW charge rate. Then I noticed they plugged it into a regular charger and set the climate control to 80 degrees. Following that 30 minutes later they tried the supercharger again, once again the results were the same. 68kW. Finally they just gave up and left it there. Shortly after I got an automated text that the car’s service is finished and it is getting washed now. Ha! I replied asking how come it was not fixed as I noticed it was charging quite slowly. Immediately after they disconnected my app service and the car was showing that it is “in service”. An hour later I got a call from a very arrogant service advisor by the name of Ryan, he advised me that the car is ready. I asked him what did they have to do to fix the issue. He began reading the notes, which clearly stated they did nothing. I asked him so what you are saying is that you did nothing. He says, “Yes!” Great I say, what charge rate were you getting? He says 113kW! Really? I tell him I’ve been watching the process the entire time from my phone. He is caught red-handed and starts telling me that I could not have seen that because they disable the app. Well, guess what? You guys forgot! He tries telling me that the car needs to be at 100 degrees Fahrenheit in order to achieve the full charge rate! Really? Did you just make that up? He says just come down and get your car, we are not going to do anything else. Thanks buddy! I showed up and he began telling me that the car charged at 113kW or something. I said no it didn’t, here are the screenshots. At which point he pulls up a picture that they took when the car peaked at 113kW and show it to me! “See” he says! He begins to accuse me that I told him it never crossed 100kW! Good job you took a picture of the exact thing I’ve been telling you, it peaks and drops. See your notes I tell him. He says I don’t have such notes, the guy that took the car in is standing right next to him all terrified (Kamal). He was supposed to write all of that down. The mechanic (Matt) that I also spoke with when I was dropping the car off said that peak and drop is not normal.

Not sure how much more evidence he should give them. They know it's not normal. It happened to them too, multiple times. And he even had evidence that it happened to them, too. So he could have bombarded them with videos, photos etc. It wouldn't have mattered. They saw the problem themselves, weren't able to fix it and tried to convince him, that there is nothing wrong.

 

[robski]

There's still only one side of the story here, but let's say the car did exactly as described. Based on all the variables in play (even including a mechanic with no notes on what the heck he was diagnosing), if they're saying nothing is wrong, then they're also saying it performed normal.

They were never able to get above 68, but was that their goal? Did they give up or were they just unable to find an issue? I'm under the impression it's easier to replace a part than to plug/unplug 12 times late in the day, then followup with more time spent, and finally deal with an unhappy customer.

I know what it's like to work with an SC who says nothings wrong:

• Acceleration Shudder
  
  • Initially couldn't reproduce and I was bummed out
  • Finally read that it happens in Normal Suspension mode
  • Asked them not to troubleshoot in any low setting and they finally felt it
• Is this a normal Model X sound, or should I be concerned?
  • My MX had an annoying whistle sound that gave everyone a headache
  • SC couldn't reproduce and I was bummed
  • Finally figured out that it starts at 75mph
  • They were able to reproduce and fix what turned out to be a misaligned headlight

I'm just saying 2 things here 1) We only have 1 side of the story and 2) Sometimes the SC need the right clue.

 

[Electroman]

Yeah, but he had a photo of it charging at that speed.

Photo? Photo is a snapshot of a single spike that lasted a few seconds before it dropped off, that OP said he has seen everytime he plugs in.

In fact that photo is evidence that the SC engineer has determined to bluff his way with 'proof'. In fact what would be proof is, if he had captured charge rate every 15 seconds from 5% SoC to 50% SoC and shown the charge curve.

 

[gilscales]

EV trip optimizer IOS app for iphone

As far as my charge graphs posted earlier I replied to @sperkin that I used EVTO
and @Electroman had disagreed with my post and after looking at the screenshots on iTunes it appears he is right and I am merely mistaken as I hate to be wrong!
I must have mixed it up with Nikola for Tesla then, not sure cause I don't use any now and I tried a few in the beginning

‎Nikola for Tesla

 

[DrDabbles]

Photo? Photo is a snapshot of a single spike that lasted a few seconds before it dropped off, that OP said he has seen everytime he plugs in.

OP said it hadn't reached that rate, but the provided evidence it had. I'm not sure what's up for debate there. How long it happened is a different matter entirely.

 

[MXWing]

@vadimr

Wish I saw this thread sooner. The red telephone dials me when a problem needs to be solved.

You say you have a brother with a Model 3?

Call in a favor to where both Model 3s are at a low and similar SoC parked in your garage.

Head out to a SC and plug in different pairs. Choose off hours where your experiments won’t be disturbed.

Record charging rates.

If both charging curves behave about the same, problem solved.

If there is a difference, swap stalls.

Report and let us know what you discover.

And nothing shuts a one year old up faster than Peppa pig. Something about anthromorphic animals with English accents that gets the job done.

 

[Sudre]

As a note. The charge socket in your car can also cause slow charging. I think it monitors line resistance or something. 3 years ago, or maybe even longer, when I plugged in I did not notice a bug! He got squished into my charge port. That made thing go slow. Worked great after Tesla replaced the charge port.

So like others have said. Don't tell them it is the battery. That might get them looking in the wrong place. If you are not experiencing what others are describing here as their normal charge experience there is probably something wrong. It may be the battery. It may not.

 

[hydro 481]

Sorry to hear about your ordeal. I can relate since my experience with Tesla service center has been quite disappointing as well. However my issue is nowhere near as severe as yours. Hopefully everything works out for you in the end.

 

[vadimr]

Sorry folks I dropped off this thread for a little while. I appreciate the positive comments from people that actually read the issues. I am currently working on building a very solid case here. Using a 2nd Model 3 (2 weeks apart production same LR RWD) in the same stalls with same SOC and all other controllable variables to demonstrate that no matter what I do I get much slower charge rate. I do not want to reply much because some people are quite uneducated here or they are trolling on behalf of Tesla. I want nothing more but for Tesla to succeed and for my car to be trouble free but that doesn't mean I should swallow their nonsense.

I don't want to go and quote a few people here but a few folks were stating that I am all wrong when I look at the charge rate and instead stated that I should be looking at miles/hour being added. That was the most obnoxious thing I had read in quite awhile. Using some arbitrary unit to measure something that is measured in actual units. You would not be sitting at a gas pump and counting how many miles per minute you are filling up? Would you? You are paying for liquid in gallons, liters, or whatever else you want to measure liquid in and you should not measure current in miles. It's really off the wall statement.

Another thing is someone giving advice on communication and how one should speak to people that are lying and all that other fun stuff. How to do social engineering and how people will stop helping you if you call them out on their lies. Thank you, Mr. Keyboard Psychologist, lucky for you my spouse is a real one so forgive me if I take your advice with a grain of salt.

While I do not agree with some of you I can appreciate that some of you are skeptical in a professional matter. You are right, this is only my side of the story and while I have no reason to lie on my side I can totally understand your concerns.

I'd further like to restate that I do really enjoy my car and the vision of the company. I don't like their how unethical they are but I suppose to compete in this very unethical industry one must stoop down to their level. I just hate how they advertised no middlemen (dealers) structure and that service department is not supposed to be a profit center but in reality everything is totally different. I do plan to place a deposit for the Model Y once it is announced.

I have a funny story to share. Two cars back I had a Subaru LGT. I recently was cleaning out my garage and discovered I still had a roof rack. I listed it on LGT forum and met up with some guy who picked it up. The guy pulled up and was like hey I used to work at Tesla! I figured somewhere locally in NJ but turns out no he was a shift supervisor in the body shop in Fremont. We chatted for about 30 minutes. This guy had so many stories to tell about how dysfunctional production is and why nothing ever lines up and why the paint sucks. He did state that he left them 1 month prior to Model 3 begging production so perhaps things have changed but he explained to me in great detail why the door on the Model S would not line up and man what an interesting inside that was. The guy apparently used to work at Subaru in Indiana prior to going over to Tesla and said the production tightness and overall the way manufacturing is executed is night and day. Obviously as I stated above it's only 1 side of the story but IMHO this guy had nothing to gain. He pointed out a few things on my car and explained how they are built and where discrepancies come from but again this is an unverified source and his only experience was with body production and paint shop.

Finally, someone here had a very nice long quoted post and decided to throw in his parenting advice. I will read everything you have to say but as soon as you start dishing out parenting advice, whomever you are - the conversation ends right there. I stopped reading right after that. I'm sorry if that offends you but giving strangers parenting advice in my book is plain wrong. Most parents I know tell me the same thing, as soon as someone begins telling them what to do with their child they stop listening or write that person off. Unless you are a pediatrician and you are familiar with my kids and I am there to see you for your expert opinion - we got nothing to discuss. Some new parents end up in ER only a few days after discharge because people like yourself begin telling them what to do or what they are doing wrong and they end up in a panic? Unable to feed their child, and reading into things that are not there. Next time you speak your worthless parenting advice to anyone consider that you are contributing to rising health care cost. Perhaps, it's too much in a Tesla forum but you know...

 

[bedoig]

Perhaps, it's too much in a Tesla forum but I am sorry but I

Must have hit the character limit for a post...Just kidding. Hope your car gets fixed. Keep us posted. Succinctly

 

[redgt]

Sorry folks I dropped off this thread for a little while. I appreciate the positive comments from people that actually read the issues. I am currently working on building a very solid case here. Using a 2nd Model 3 (2 weeks apart production same LR RWD) in the same stalls with same SOC and all other controllable variables to demonstrate that no matter what I do I get much slower charge rate. I do not want to reply much because some people are quite uneducated here or they are trolling on behalf of Tesla. I want nothing more but for Tesla to succeed and for my car to be trouble free but that doesn't mean I should swallow their nonsense.

I don't want to go and quote a few people here but a few folks were stating that I am all wrong when I look at the charge rate and instead stated that I should be looking at miles/hour being added. That was the most obnoxious thing I had read in quite awhile. Using some arbitrary unit to measure something that is measured in actual units. You would not be sitting at a gas pump and counting how many miles per minute you are filling up? Would you? You are paying for liquid in gallons, liters, or whatever else you want to measure liquid in and you should not measure current in miles. It's really off the wall statement.

Another thing is someone giving advice on communication and how one should speak to people that are lying and all that other fun stuff. How to do social engineering and how people will stop helping you if you call them out on their lies. Thank you, Mr. Keyboard Psychologist, lucky for you my spouse is a real one so forgive me if I take your advice with a grain of salt.

While I do not agree with some of you I can appreciate that some of you are skeptical in a professional matter. You are right, this is only my side of the story and while I have no reason to lie on my side I can totally understand your concerns.

I'd further like to restate that I do really enjoy my car and the vision of the company. I don't like their how unethical they are but I suppose to compete in this very unethical industry one must stoop down to their level. I just hate how they advertised no middlemen (dealers) structure and that service department is not supposed to be a profit center but in reality everything is totally different. I do plan to place a deposit for the Model Y once it is announced.

I have a funny story to share. Two cars back I had a Subaru LGT. I recently was cleaning out my garage and discovered I still had a roof rack. I listed it on LGT forum and met up with some guy who picked it up. The guy pulled up and was like hey I used to work at Tesla! I figured somewhere locally in NJ but turns out no he was a shift supervisor in the body shop in Fremont. We chatted for about 30 minutes. This guy had so many stories to tell about how dysfunctional production is and why nothing ever lines up and why the paint sucks. He did state that he left them 1 month prior to Model 3 begging production so perhaps things have changed but he explained to me in great detail why the door on the Model S would not line up and man what an interesting inside that was. The guy apparently used to work at Subaru in Indiana prior to going over to Tesla and said the production tightness and overall the way manufacturing is executed is night and day. Obviously as I stated above it's only 1 side of the story but IMHO this guy had nothing to gain. He pointed out a few things on my car and explained how they are built and where discrepancies come from but again this is an unverified source and his only experience was with body production and paint shop.

Finally, someone here had a very nice long quoted post and decided to throw in his parenting advice. I will read everything you have to say but as soon as you start dishing out parenting advice, whomever you are - the conversation ends right there. I stopped reading right after that. I'm sorry if that offends you but giving strangers parenting advice in my book is plain wrong. Most parents I know tell me the same thing, as soon as someone begins telling them what to do with their child they stop listening or write that person off. Unless you are a pediatrician and you are familiar with my kids and I am there to see you for your expert opinion - we got nothing to discuss. Some new parents end up in ER only a few days after discharge because people like yourself begin telling them what to do or what they are doing wrong and they end up in a panic? Unable to feed their child, and reading into things that are not there. Next time you speak your worthless parenting advice to anyone consider that you are contributing to rising health care cost. Perhaps, it's too much in a Tesla forum but you know...

wow

 

[voip-ninja]

wow

I actually read the whole thing and thought it was pretty informative. Better than many of the tl;dr threads here.

 

[navguy12]

I’m no mechanic but I was wondering if it’s possible you have a defective charger in your car rather than a defective battery?

The onboard charger is bypassed when charging from a DC source, such as the superchargers.

 

[MP3Mike]

The onboard charger is bypassed when charging from a DC source, such as the superchargers.

It isn't used but it isn't bypassed either.