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Degradation of the Community...

Discussion in 'Site Feedback' started by jeffro01, Aug 28, 2017.

  1. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    Let me start by saying I realize there are people here who don't like me, have claimed to have put me on ignore, etc... As such, I expect that whoever reads this thread won't agree with what I'm about to say but I feel like this needs to be said somewhere and this looks like the best spot just looking at the various forums and sub-forums...

    TMC, as a community, has really gone downhill... There is a handful of members that are constantly dragging this place down with their constant negativity and anti-Tesla stances. This used to be a enthusiasts forum but it's really turned into a constant whine fest where Tesla can't do anything right and is always doing something "wrong"... I'm not here to claim Tesla is perfect, far from it, but at some point there has to be line between the constant whining and some semblance of positivity... It's predictable now just which members are going to come out against Tesla no matter the issue, and this is creating a toxic environment.

    Make no mistake, I have contributed my fair share of posts towards this toxic environment in that I'm brash, non-apologetic, rough, and direct... That clearly isn't helping so I'm trying to make an active effort to dispute the idea, not the person posting it... Even still though, I make mistakes that get me into trouble... My question is why is TMC, and the people who run it, continuing to allow certain members free reign to dump on Tesla any opportunity they get? If it were me, I'd clean house and get rid of this small, but vocal, minority of users who are directly causing this toxicity. However, I do not feel that TMC is that kind of a place in that I haven't seen the people in charge take such drastic action before so I can appreciate their unwillingness to do so now.

    That being said, what can we do? I haven't listed the small minority here but can, and will do so, privately if any of the mods would like to know my thinking on this. I will continue to try to no longer contribute to this problem and will use the report function, without retaliation, as instructed by @efusco but would like to see a broader approach...

    Thanks,
    Jeff
     
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  2. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Elaborate on specifics? Do you mean bans? Penalty box? Aggressive use of one or more quarantine threads?
     
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  3. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    If it were up to me, and I say that only to say that I know and realize it's not, I'd ban these people from the community. I think trying to moderate their behavior out is a task that no one wants given the amount of time it would take and the gray area that would be nearly impossible to differentiate between what is and what is not acceptable. To that end, my goal is to completely remove myself from ever needing to be moderated although I'll admit there will be some bumps on that road...

    Jeff
     
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  4. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    I've been here for 4 years (or so). Didn't notice a decline. But then I'm not reading everything. I follow the basic rule of life
    "ignore the negative, reinforce the positive'
    See a negative comment, skip it, don't reply. Don't give it any attention.
    See something interesting or helpful, Reply, say thanks, share your thoughts.

    If everyone followed that simple rule, negative people would be 'starved out'. Remember, negativity is a way to get attention. It works realyl well. You write something negative and provocative and you get lots of comments. You write something positive and it gets maybe a few thumbs up.
     
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  5. DrComputer

    DrComputer Member

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    Be careful what you ask for. Unfortunately, I was banned from this community by the owners of these forums for almost a year because they didn't like what I posted. Not because it was inflammatory, illegal, disrespectful, "fan boy" biased, etc... just because they felt the content was in conflict with their commercial conference endeavor. So, by suggesting that people be banned or sanctioned for presenting their views (regardless of how different they are from your own) you may be opening pandora's box of censorship.
     
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  6. Matias

    Matias Active Member

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    I think it is inevitable, that tone changes, when Tesla has moved from extremely hard core enthusiasts start up company to multi billion, tenths of thousands employees, American's highest market cap car company. Customer base has grown from couple of thousand to several hundred thousands.

    If you have a start up company with two thousand customers vs. current Tesla, discussion forum can't stay the same.

    Tesla is now household name. Go to any discussion forum concerning any mainstream company. You will find mostly people complaining something.
     
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  7. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Instead of banning people for a viewpoint, I'd use a different measure as to how they are contributing to the health of the community ... do they give out a larger percentage of disagrees than the rest of the community? That would be indicative of just stirring the pot or even trolling. (Note, I said 'give out' - people receiving disagrees for having a contrary opinion are still contributing.) And I'd also say that after a certain number of posts where someone is just rude to other forum members, they should be banned. Over and done.
     
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  8. GoTslaGo

    GoTslaGo Learning Member

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    I miss the green dots.
     
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  9. mmd

    mmd Active Member

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    #9 mmd, Aug 28, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
    Well said. To add to it, the cars are also aging, so there are now more discussions about issues like battery swaps, counts of drive unit changes, out of warranty expenses and unfulfilled promises. The wow factor has been over few years ago.

    I understand some old timers like @Canuck and the OP here can't take this anymore when they are faced with reality and facts, because they failed to change with time and situation. Or they kept their eyes closed for the love of their cars/Tesla/TSLA.
    But it is more to do with them than the forum, which is evolving as the company and its customer base evolves.

    Edit: @bonnie You only had to read Canuck's emotional outburst in the other EAP thread 1-2 days ago.

    To the OP: What can you do? I can think of a few options :)
    a) Change with time
    b) Increase your tolerance level to not bend out of shape on getting a few disagrees.
    c) Request a "Pro Tesla echo chamber" to the site admin, where patting each other on the back is only thing allowed, and visit only that section.
     
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  10. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Good example of unnecessary belittling of fellow forum members. It's fine to disagree for the reasons you state (though I disagree with you :)), but why is it necessary to take pot shots at others? It stifles real conversation. I'm truly curious as to the motivation.
     
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  11. kort677

    kort677 Banned

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    this says it all, as they community of owners expands from the extremely tech savvy early enthusiasts to a broader spectrum of the population the participation from those who were willing to accept any shortcomings of the car/company is diluted by those who are just interested in owning a cutting edge vehicle and are less tolerant of the "growing pains" from a manufacturer that has a propensity to overpromise and underdeliver on those promises.
    the only ones that need to be corralled are the blatantly profane or the real trolls, many have been over moderated for opinions that were contrary to "church of elon".
     
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  12. cpa

    cpa Active Member

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    ^^^^^^

    What Bonnie said. It seems to me that these are the types of comments that Jeffro01 was alluding to. You can make your point, ask your question, or take issue with an opinion without becoming personal.

    I may be showing my age and upbringing. But I feel that when we participate in these discussions we are talking personally at a social gathering with everyone involved. Perhaps at a dinner party. Perhaps at a Supercharger. Generally, face-to-face conversations tend to be more civil and less stifling, as Bonnie said.

    If what someone writes on a forum like this would not be said publicly in the presence of others, then perhaps what is written should be rethought and rewritten to be more collegial.
     
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  13. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Very true, and that applies to all communications online, but unfortunately is not often observed.
     
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  14. Struja

    Struja Struja

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    No offence but you sound an awful lot like my 85 year old neighbour who has lived in her home for 60 years and my house is on land she once owned. She told me once, "it was much better here before all you people moved in" (60 years ago she had 20 acres she sold 19.75 of it).

    I am a new Tesla owner, admitted fanboy and driving my dream car. I am in, hook, line and sinker...but I appreciate differing views. I don't even mind the trolls. Most people are smart enough to figure out the intentions of others and I can't imagine a public forum is how most people make important decisions for their lives.

    Forums, by there very nature are places to discuss a wide range of opinions, even dumb opinions. Having less than 100 posts I can't help but to feel like I am a part of this terrible "degradation" you write about.

    Last week, a guy in Michigan called me an "a-hole" for driving a foreign car. I laughed harder at his statement than I have in a long time. My Tesla is the first non-Japanese car I've owned since 1989, but I would never try to censor his speech, I'd try to educate him.

    In any event...hopefully not too many of us noobs continue to degrade the forum.
     
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  15. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    I don't think he was referring to new members.

    And a belated welcome to the forum :).
     
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  16. Carl

    Carl Supporting Member

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    The most active "regional" subforum of TMC is that of the Low Countries (Belgium and the Netherlands), and that is also truly the most impressively civilised forum on the whole Internet, imho :). No trolling, no name calling. The subforum doesn't even need moderation, as far as I can tell. The fact that any Belgian or Dutch TMC member will most probably, at least once each year, cross other Belgian or Dutch TMC members at SuperCharger stops on their way to the Alps when vacationing probably does help keeping things civilised :)
     
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  17. Struja

    Struja Struja

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    Thx!
     
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  18. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    Your post is a direct example of what I'm talking about... You needed to insult someone/group of people in order to respond...

    I'm not trying to create an echo chamber, I'm not trying to silence the real issues and criticisms of Tesla. As I've often said, Tesla is far from perfect... I just find all of the negativity provided by a very small group of posters here to be unnecessary and tiresome...

    Jeff
     
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  19. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    You would be correct, it's not new members that are the issue. New members bring new perspectives and experiences to the table... What my issue lies with is a small group of people who can be counted on to post things like, and I'm paraphrasing, "Tesla is run by snakes" or "when you get an AP2 car then you can comment", I could go on and those two small examples aren't really a great summary of my overall issue... For instance, there is one member who jumps in on nearly EVERY conversation that touches on anything AP to accuse Tesla of fraud... Ugh...

    Jeff
     
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  20. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    Sadly, as we all know, people will say anything behind the anonymity of the keyboard... That's arguably one of the worst things about the internet...

    Jeff
     
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