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Degradation of the Community...

Discussion in 'Site Feedback' started by jeffro01, Aug 28, 2017.

  1. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    #81 McRat, Aug 29, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
    I must say that your posts, whether or not I agree with them, are some of the best reading on the site. While there are other writers who yield the same level of interesting content, yours are in the top percentile, regardless of the brownie points or darts thrown at the post.

    Sadly, I can't say I never gave out a Dislike. One user would throw a dislike at every post I made regardless of subject or content, 10+ in just a few minutes, and I finally wanted to see the effect of forcing them to put their shoes on backwards. So I sinned. I randomly selected their posts in random threads of random ages, did an experiment. I deployed a cluster munition of Dislikes (same number of Dislikes) in a very short time span.

    And they went ballistic. :D

    Seems those who enjoy the Dislike button the most, are the same folk who put a high value on them when on the receiving end. I hope the victim did not actually destroy their keyboard or monitor, or require hospitalization. Sincerely. But I 'sort' of apologize by them it was only a test of my hypothesis.

    But Likes can also be disturbing. I won't get deeply into it, because I'm sure the member meant no harm, but they would give me Likes constantly. And it's a little creepy to me personally. Not sure exactly why, but I'd rather have a Dislike for something that made somebody think, than a Like for something that wasn't really deserved.

    There is a not perfect system for approval ratings of posts on forum. Perfect systems do not exist.
     
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  2. kort677

    kort677 Banned

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    re: massive dislike attacks, there have been one or two users who carpet bombed people with dislike. fortunately the mods sent the miscreants away however the dislikes never go away.
    any sort of self rating system is prone to be misused and/or manipulated, as far as I'm concerned I don't put too much emphasis on the ratings. that said, as controversial as some of my comments have been I remain on the plus side of the contest.
     
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  3. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    Dang! Made it to 80 posts before a political reference. :D

    In Kali, we have a President who apparently has no problems with EVs, but a Governor who does seem to have problems with EVs. Our EV rebates and infrastructure was put into place mostly by the previous governor. Being in the #1 EV state, that makes politics an issue in the EV community in a very direct and immediate fashion. But 1600 Pennsylvania has had no negative effect on EVs so far, unless you count TSLA stock shooting skywards as a negative.
     
  4. kort677

    kort677 Banned

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    it is those irrelevant out of context political snipes that cause so much of the animosity amongst the posters to the forums.
    the mods seem to vacillate between heavy moderation and no moderation. sometimes I think the moderation is based on the leanings of the mod who makes the decision to move posts to quarantine or not to take action.
     
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  5. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    It would probably be helpful to the mods if the site administration had clear cut moderation guidelines - and would also be helpful if the moderators had a little more help on their team. It's easy to see that it's a small volunteer crew and can't possibly cover this forum, which leads to the 'no moderation' issue (unless someone reports a post/thread to get their attention).
     
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  6. kort677

    kort677 Banned

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    yes I agree, it is a big job for the small group of volunteers to handle and firm parameters known to all to guide the moderation would bring consistency to the process.
    I realize that the mods are human and are subject to injecting their views into things.
    I've had a few discussions when the mods took off their mod hats and got embroiled in some heated topics and then just put the hats on when they decided views that didn't conform were to be banished.
    If I did have an idea to offer it would be to up the number of mods and give them specific forums for them to monitor and to create a line of civility that shouldn't be crossed but other than civility issues most anything else should go, as long as it is on topic in a particular forum.
     
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  7. Merrill

    Merrill Active Member

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    I love this forum for all the insite and information from the community, I do not mind people sharing there issues as long as it is not inflammatory or degrading another member. If we share information and do it in a positive way we all benefit, as with any forum you will always have the constant complainers and detractors. We need to hear both sides of any issue bit it should be done in a way that helps everyone. If you would not say something face to face with someone then do not post it here!
     
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  8. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    When I was moderating, there were times that I publicly stated 'moderator hat off' so that I could be part of the conversation. Never banned anyone for contrary views (only site admins can ban or put on moderation), but did recommend a few people for their trollish behavior. I also went out of my way to give positive rep to those with contrary views, who were contributing with respectful & well thought out positions.

    I recognize the importance of contrary views - but have very little tolerance for the constant dismissive drumbeat of 'fanboys' or others trying to shut down a contrary view. I also have little tolerance for those carpet bombing every thread with their view of the world and taking what was something enjoyable ('I love my new car!') and ruining it with a negative comment ("just wait a few months and see how Tesla treats you'). And hopefully you know that when a new person comes on with a problem, 95% of the time I'm reaching out to give them a hand. And I publicly give support.

    But there were some that felt moderators should not be heard & I get that. Tough though to tell mods they're not entitled to an opinion, when you want to attract volunteer mods.I resigned for a few reasons, but the bottom line it wasn't fun being on the forum with the constant criticism. It wasn't like I was being paid :). So after several years, I resigned and began to enjoy the forum again.
     
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  9. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    Que exactly why I started this thread in the first place... I really wish some of you would have actually read my post instead of spouting off the same line over and over and over again... I'm not a fascist. Do not call me that. There is nothing wrong with valid criticism of Tesla but you show up in damn near EVERY thread to complain about something, call Tesla and the people who run the company snakes, whine incessantly about fraud and whatever buzz word of the day you decide to run with. YOU are absolutely in that group of members who I'd love to see go. You come into this thread and you don't disappoint either... Same crap, different thread.

    For the last time on this and I hope people are actually taking the time to read what I'm typing. I am NOT trying to to run TMC into an echo chamber. I am NOT trying to silence dissent. I am NOT trying to convince you, or anyone else for that matter, that I want TMC to be an extreme fanboy site. What I was trying to do, and I regret even trying now as this thread is nothing but SSDD, is weed out those of you who have drug this place down into the muck and return it to the ENTHUSIAST community that it used to be.

    Funny how I get called a fascist and the post is still there, I know mods are reading this. So I'm left to conclude that TMC is okay with the very worst this forum has to offer calling members fascists... Yet, if history is any indication, I'll be banned for this post because well we wouldn't want people to defend themselves here...

    Jeff
     
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  10. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    That's simply not true and I beg you to please read my original post. You obviously did not.

    Jeff
     
  11. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    You had me up until the last section... Narrow-minded fanboys? Come on... So what you seem to want is for TMC to be an anti-Tesla echo chamber. See what I did there? I'm sick and tired of even the slightest HINT of support for Tesla here at TMC (you know, an enthusiast community, supposedly), you immediately get labeled a fanboy... The use of the word "fanboy" should be treated just like the use of the word "troll", they are both derogatory terms that serve no other purpose than to demean someone...

    Jeff
     
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  12. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    Being a forum mod or admin is often like being the only tree in a dog park. ;)

    I had lost a very valuable tech member of our community when I had to reprimand them too many times for personal attacks. He was a personal friend, and I was being accused of bias, when all I really was doing was trying to keep high quality content on the site by cutting him more slack than members who were not being helpful to the community. Yet I was having personal discussions with him to try and get him to tone it down, which failed. It came down to "stop or quit" in private, and that was the last I heard of him. Loyalty to a friend vs. running a forum can suck.
     
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  13. T34ME

    T34ME Active Member

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    I disagree. The take I got from the OP is that some posters use too many threads to interject negative comments about Tesla that are off topic to the subject thread, like @Troy did above and like you are doing by labeling posters as 'fanboys.'
     
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  14. alcibiades

    alcibiades Member

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    Maybe it'd be helpful to have an owners sub-forum? Maybe a Tesla AP forum as well. Channel the topics. That way, enthusiasts (whatever that precisely means*) can stay away from a place that is likely to draw mostly complaints. After all, we all know that many people find message boards not only through bald interest, but in hopes to find solutions to problems. Naturally as more people own Teslas (and as Tesla handles crazy growth) the impact of problems on new owners will veer from the impact of problems on owners who have been around since inception and on people who are heavily financially/emotionally invested. This is pretty psychologically simple. It's not a new theory.

    Here, and I do not mean to step on anyone's toes, the frequency of the epithet "short" can give one the impression that "enthusiast" merely means "long". But that is both too narrow and unfair.

    * I think I'm an enthusiast. I love everything about my car except for my experience of purchasing and living with EAP. This is NOT unreasonable.
     
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  15. scottm

    scottm Version 9 software sufferer

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    #95 scottm, Aug 29, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
    I'm full of solutions... and ideas so here goes another...

    HOW ABOUT in addition to the rating buttons we already have, add a sour face (meaning "objectionable or contrary to forum etiquette").. and when somebody hits it +1 goes the score but also actually causes the post text color to shift one degree paler, going from its original black to ever lightening shades of grey, ending at shade that is so light it almost fades to background. So it becomes harder and harder to actually see and read what was being said in that post.

    Crowd sourcing things that should fade to oblivion because they are obnoxious ..

    (If you select / highlight the line above you can still read it)

    The integrity of the thread is not lost. People reading it will naturally just scan down and skip over white space... seeing only the remaining dark text of substance. Which can still contain "dislikes".. that's fine so long as its not objectionable. (Which does not have to be strictly defined, but left alone for the crowd to decide.)

    But importantly this is not a one-way trip. Anyone reading the text later may decide that was an unjust rating and hit the heart (love) button which ups that count but also renders the text one shade darker until eventually maybe it reaches black again. Woo hoo!

    text_shade = black - sour + love ;

    Think the of the fun we could have with these shifting sands. ... waiting for our model 3's.

    This will encourage contributors to write so that people love their content, if for no other reason it is at least polite.
     
  16. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Point of clarification (and I think agreement):
    What I liked about the green system was the "at least somewhat respected contributors" aspect, not the power aspect of having more "weight" when you applied a rating. The former is what I miss, not the latter.
     
  17. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Pause a moment, take a breath.

    This is exactly the kind of thread I would expect the moderators to be as light-handed as they can humanely manage. Your conclusions here are premature and, IMO, incorrect. I know you're upset by the person and content you were replying to, but take a moment to pause and reflect that (IMO at least) this appears to be a fairly constructive thread so far.
     
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  18. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    #98 Canuck, Aug 29, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
    Who are they? I often get accused of being one, yet I don't consider myself to be one, so when you say "they know they are" if you include me on your list then I don't agree that I know I'm one. I consider a "fanboy" to be a person who is of the belief that Tesla does no wrong, and never criticises Tesla. Is that your definition? I consider myself a fan of Tesla but not a fanboy. Bonnie often gets labelled a fanboy (or girl) but I've heard her side with people against Tesla, and help people escalate concerns against Tesla. She's obviously a big fan of Tesla too, like me, but do you consider her a fanboy? If not, then who are these hardcore fanboys you mention since I can't think of any unless you are including me and Bonnie. You can PM the names and I won't disclose them if you prefer to tell me that way.

    Now, when it comes to the reverse, those who only constantly bash Tesla, a bunch of names pop into my mind instantly. I think we all know who they are so I won't name them.

    Exactly. This thread is about degradation of the community because of the excessive Tesla bashing and @Troy's post, while well-written and it makes some good points for his side, which is obviously against the fanboys since he targets them but says nothing at all about the constant bashers, completely misses the point of this thread, as do other posts here that say things like...

    We have no issue with criticism! I criticise my children -- just not all the time! Please stay on topic. Your engineering background criticism is needed here to try to make Tesla better. No one will consider you a troll if you post in appropriate threads, or start your own, about engineering problems you see in your P85D, unless you post about it constantly, which I know you won't do. I, for one, welcome your input.

    Yes, that's exactly what the OP is suggesting...:rolleyes:

    Isn't that like being a little bit pregnant? Come on Oktane, walk back the "somewhat" and join us fans. You can still criticise Tesla and make some good points about what they are doing wrong, like you have in the past, and still be a fan. I'm a fan of the Vancouver Canucks. We've never won the Stanley Cup -- and it's a little bit like signing up to be a glutton for punishment -- but I'm still a Canuck's fan at heart and always will be. But I've ripped them a new one more than a few times... and I also cheer for them. And they do absolutely nothing for my children's future.
     
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  19. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Maybe that's your interpretation of what happened, but that's not how things work here.
     
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  20. kev1n

    kev1n Active Member

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    i think i can shed some light as to why this forum is the way it is. majority of the topics are about Tesla brand itself and its service. well honestly what else is there to talk about? its not like many Tesla owners are looking for DIY/modding their cars, bringing it to the track, most owners dont even do their own maintenance. you see what i am getting at? there are almost no topics/subjects to talk about. this isnt really a car enthusiast forum to say the least.

    how we can probably make this forum better? im not sure to be honestly, its just that majority of tesla owners arent actual car enthusiast so its not really much we can do about that. maybe creating sub forums by like city and promote/organize meets, etc will help the community grow.
     
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