Delivery Nightmare

[Tam]

...1/ take delivery in a state that allows tax exemption and a drive-away permit (I believe Nevada offers this) - with Tesla's cooperation...

I think Cb already covered this:

...He did a little research and told me we could take delivery in Las Vegas and then would have 30 days to register in our new state. Two days before we were supposed to pick up the car, we find out that's a total lie...

I did hear lots of rumors since 2012 on how to avoid CA car sales tax by not picking up yours at the factory but to pick it up at Las Vegas, NV who would not collect NV car sales tax on out-of-state owners.

That way, owners could still drive to California for a factory tour without paying CA car sales tax.

There's one Las Vegas delivery report from TX resident:

"Hot Amps | December 17, 2014
I pick up my P85D in Las Vegas on the 19th. Extremely excited as you may imagine. I will be driving it back to Texas."

May be things have changed regarding out-of-state owners for Las Vegas, NV.

 

[Aljohn]

Yes, you will have to pay the TAVT in Georgia. It is no longer considered a Sales Tax, and is solely based on the Book Value, it purchased out of state or a previously titled vehicle. So there is (typically) no offset for taxes paid in another state, since it replaced the Annual Ad Valorem tax that would have been paid over the life of the vehicle. Previously, residents paid a 6-7% sales tax (based on location) and an Ad Valorem tax each year. Overall for residence it is cheaper. The difference, of new car savings is that used vehicles are not based on the sale price, but the Book Value, so there is no "low-balling" the bill of sale to avoid taxes. Additionally state doesn't offset taxes paid in another state, thus raising revenue.

 

[cb17]

Hopefully, the form link below will give you all the information you need.

Years ago, my parents had a car delivered from a Sacramento dealership in Reno Nevada, and had a notary at the casino concierge desk effect the transaction.

This is a trick that RV people used when they travel extensively. The law used to let you keep the car out of state three of the first six months but it was changed years ago. A California resident was able to use this technique and even get California registration. It appears to have changed dramatically.

http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/boe448.pdf

Thanks! Just sent that doc to both the owner advisor and delivery specialist in NV. Fingers crossed, but something tells me they won't do it. I'll keep you posted.

 

[cb17]

Hopefully, the form link below will give you all the information you need.

Years ago, my parents had a car delivered from a Sacramento dealership in Reno Nevada, and had a notary at the casino concierge desk effect the transaction.

This is a trick that RV people used when they travel extensively. The law used to let you keep the car out of state three of the first six months but it was changed years ago. A California resident was able to use this technique and even get California registration. It appears to have changed dramatically.

http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/boe448.pdf

Here's the response I just got back from Tesla. They're still shockingly unwilling to do anything.

"This document is part of a delivery outside of California, but you would still need either a Georgia ID or intent to register in California. I have emailed various leadership figures to find a solution to this situation. But as of now we're still hoping you can provide a Georgia ID or choose to register in CA at your current address."

I think the most infuriating thing about this email is "we're still hoping... you choose to register in CA at your current address". It's like their f*ing robots. No I'm not registering in CA so I can get double taxed.

 

[Aljohn]

This seems confusing. That is: when I register and car and taxed in Georgia, the amount is based on County of Residence. That sets the TAVT rate which varies by county -- same as previously sales title and ad valorum taxes. When I purchase one on my cars in Ohio, I had to show that I was a residence of (then) Illinois to avoid paying Ohio taxes on the sale. After showing my Illinois driver's license (proof of Illinois residence), the dealer was able to wave the Ohio Sales taxes and allow me to register the vehicle in Illinois. Even then, they had to show taxes paid on the invoice to Illinois.

It seems Tesla is asking you for "proof of residency". As such they can only abide by California laws. Tesla (or any new car processor/dealer can not make up the rules. Tesla must produce the original Manufacturer's Certificate (VIN and Date of Manufacture as well as other vehicle information) which is the basis for the state to Title the vehicle for a new unit. Lacking this, the state can't and won't take any action on Title. This is a rigid process that ensure no vehicle can have more than one Title any place in the US. Similarly, if the vehicle is delivered and Titled in California, you MUST surrender the Title to Georgia in order to have a Georgia Title issued (the lien holder will do so and receive the new title as collateral)

When Tesla delivered my Model X here in Georgia, in my zeal I immediately went to DMV the next day to get permanent and Electric Vehicle tags. The DMV could not find the Manufacturer's Certificate in their data base and would take NO action until it was registered in their computer base even though I had the Bill of Sale. They advised my to return in a few days when the insurance and manufacture's information would be in the Georgia data base -- it was after 5 days.

The point is: These are fairly rigid processes dictated by the states to avoid consumer fraud (multiple titles) and ensure the states receives the "sales" tax revenue dictated by law. Tesla has no alternatives (imho).

 

[Ulmo]

None of that tax is pro-rated? Why would title tax be high for a used (even if a few days) moved vehicle in Georgia? I'm confused.

 

[cb17]

My wife emailed a couple VPs early this morning and that appears to have done the trick. Maybe we should teach our delivery specialist how to use Tesla's AD Global Address Book because they responded within the hour and immediately agreed to ship the car to Georgia for free in addition to reimbursing our previous expenses and promising to fix policies/procedures internally. Simple, logical response.

 

[Tam]

...ship the car to Georgia for free in addition to reimbursing our previous expenses and promising to fix policies/procedures internally. Simple, logical response..

That was amazing work that your wife and you did!

Congratulations!

 

[Aljohn]

None of that tax is pro-rated? Why would title tax be high for a used (even if a few days) moved vehicle in Georgia? I'm confused.

When the GA legislators did away with the Ad Valorem tax and sales tax, they made the TATV "tax neutral" at a minimum. Georgia was offsetting an Annual tax for a one-time tax on new and used vehicles. This was in several phases: First, owners of existing vehicles had a one-time option of staying with the Ad Valorem Tax or paying a one-time adjustment (if one were planning to sell or end a lease, paying the larger one-time TATV may not have made sense -- if one were planning to keep the vehicle for several more years, foregoing the Ad Valorem tax may have been a better options); Second, the TATV rate increased from the initial base by county over the next several years -- mine from 6.5% in 2012 to 7.5% currently; Third, since the TATV is not a sales tax (per se). for private sales and transfers from other states, it is based on the Book Value of the vehicle -- that essentially increased revenues on used vehicles, thus recovering the lost revenue from the previous Ad Valorem tax -- dealers collect the tax on their sales.

So for existing residences (and voters) were removed from the burden of the annual Ad Valorem tax. The state receives equal or greater revenue in private sales and transfers. Not saying it is fair to all, just that's the way it is.

BTW when I moved from Illinois to Georgia 16 years ago, the Sales tax paid on the vehicles off-set the tax by moving to Georgia because the tax rate in Illinois was greater. Georgia would then receive Ad Valorem taxes annually on my vehicles -- a nice tax annuity. This all different under the new system -- oh yea, another Georgia surprise -- you will pay $200 a year for having an electric vehicle (automatic for Tesla's) since EV don't pay road use tax at the pump. The good news if you get the EV alternate fuel tags, the toll on the roads are free and you drive in the HOV lanes as a single occupant w/o penalty.

 

[schonelucht]

My wife emailed a couple VPs early this morning and that appears to have done the trick. Maybe we should teach our delivery specialist how to use Tesla's AD Global Address Book because they responded within the hour and immediately agreed to ship the car to Georgia for free in addition to reimbursing our previous expenses and promising to fix policies/procedures internally. Simple, logical response.

It's insanely positive that Tesla VP's care enough to do the right thing even for an individual customer. But it's insanely negative that this had to get to the VP level to get resolution.