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Delivery Sequence - Regular U.S. Model S before European Signature Model S?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by linaser, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. linaser

    linaser Member

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    Yesterday, I talked to a Tesla rep in the U.K. . He told me, that the Signature Model S in Europe will not be delivered before a substantial part of the regular Model S for the american market have been manufactured.

    I have to admit, that I was rather disapointed about this, because I signed up for a Signaure reservation only, to be among the first to get a Model S.

    He also told me, that they have not decided yet, in which order the queues for the specific countries are going to be delivered. In Europe there are at least 3 different queues: I'am #14 for Model S Signature in Switzerland, but there seems also to be a seperate queue for the U.K. and the rest of Europe.

    In a worst case szenario this could mean, that my Model S Signature would not be delivered before all other queues are finished.

    Does anybody here know more about how many regular Model S will be built before they start manufacturing the Signature Model S for Europe or in which order the queues for the specific countries will be manufactured?
     
  2. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    check the blog post by George Blankenship:A Quick Update on Model S | Blog | Tesla Motors

    Delivery of EU Model S (left hand drive) starts after homologation (=make the car conform to EU standards). Homologation will complete end 2012/early 2013. UK have to wait even longer because modifications for right hand drive are far more intrusive than exchanging turn signals with amber color and so on.

    There are benefits for that, though.
    • Signature and General Production cars will number 4000-5000 until your car is built. All the initial bugs will be worked out
    • For EU customers, all battery pack sizes (160, 230, 300) miles and possibly a wider set of options are available when it's time to decide.
     
  3. linaser

    linaser Member

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    I was aware of the blog post, but in my opinion, it leaves much room for speculation: For instance, it could mean just as well that "Signature delivery" includes the Model S Signature for Europe followed by the regular productions cars in the U.S. (the way I always interpreted this). It says only, that they will start delivering "the Model S" in Europe late 2012, which could also mean that it will take them that long to manufacture the U.S. Signature Model S.

    But I'm very curious, why you think, that it is the way you said. Do you have any detailed information, about when Tesla will exactly start with the homologation process and how long it will take?

    In my opinion, they could start right after the RC is ready.

    Is this an estimate or do you know anything to support this number?
     
  4. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I'm still thinking about upgrading to a Signature, but I want to have a solid deadline first. Right now the European delivery is vague. I'm still counting on December 2012/Jan 2013 for the European sigs / 300 mile versions.
     
  5. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    Model S FAQ

    I suppose the significance of the above is up for interpretation, but assuming there is little if any engineering and regulatory differences between American and Canadian Model S', if I were Tesla I would put the North American Signature reservation holders first. That is, I would put the 200 Canadian Signature reservation holders ahead of the American general production 300 mile range battery pack reservation holders.

    Larry
     
  6. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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    You want a sig even with no 3-ph support?
     
  7. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    3-phase support is available only for EU signature models :tongue:
     
  8. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    This is an estimate. I base it on Tesla's statements to produce 5000+ cars in 2012 and to start deliveries in EU in 2013. The assumption that ALL signatures for all markets are produced ahead of general production cars would imply a) all homologation is done way before delivery and b) general production deliveries for North America market would be postponed.
    I think it's highly unprobable that Tesla would allow for a significant gap (2-3 months) between delivery of the last signature and delivery of the first general production in US. It is their home market, they need to deliver and not disappoint eager customers.

    So I think EU won't see any Model S, be it signature or GP, before Dec 2012.
     
  9. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    There are differences between US and Canadian cars, such as the need for daytime running lights and immobilizers in Canada. But these features will be built into the cars from day one, and switched by firmware if needed. Tesla has stated that Canadian deliveries will start three months after American; the delay is probably due to getting Canadian certification in place.
     
  10. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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    JB Straubel told me, that there will be no direct 3-ph charging. Only via DC. Thats a real shame.
     
  11. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    Has Tesla explained to anyone why? It seems a no brainer to make the three phase an option. I'm sure that the third leg could be put at the end of the out-pin on the male end of the New Tesla Connector, and it would not affect their plans for two phase or DC network. I'm confused.
     
  12. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Everything is up to Tesla now, let's see how they respond on my letter :) Let's not turn this into a 3-phase topic again, let's just wait for ~6 weeks and see how they respond.

    But I think EU delivery is depended on the US delivery, see my theory: Speculating about delivery dates

    If the US starts in May 2012, then we'll have our EU Model S earlier as well :)
     
  13. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    Hi Doug,

    Thanks for the information.

    If we make "back-of-the-napkin" calculations based on Tesla's public statements about cars produced and release dates, the average production rate for 2012 averages out to between 46 to 50 cars per workday. Even at a significantly lower initial rate of half that it is likely that the first 1000 U.S. signature reservations could be completed in the first month of production. Then Tesla would continue to produce the next group of U.S. General Production 300 mile battery reservations for two months. Following that they would switch from U.S. reservation holders to the 200 Canadian Signature holders before returning to U.S. General Production reservation holders?

    For those of us with U.S. General Production reservations trying to figure out how many reservations are likely ahead of us, all of this probably doesn't really matter much. Those 200 Signature reservations would only delay us by about one week at the most. :wink:

    Thanks.

    Larry
     
  14. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #14 TEG, Oct 23, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2011
    My sense is that they are trying hard to keep cost and weight out of the car.

    I suspect they think it is a better overall solution to put 3phase->DC offboard chargers in enough public locations that people don't need them in their cars anymore, and so they can meet their performance and cost goals for the car.

    The wrinkle is for those with home ~13/16A 3-phase who want to drive hundreds of miles per day and need a full charge every night.

    Maybe they could build a ~10kW+ HPC3 for home use that takes 3 phase AC input and does DC into the car?
     
  15. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    The production rate will probably not be 50 right from the beginning; it will probably take them some weeks to ramp up to that. I expect it would be easiest for them to do the 1200 Signatures in a contiguous group. Also the delay for the Canadian certification depends more on when they start the process than anything else.
     
  16. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    A three phase charger cost and weight would be minimal weight increase and cost would be minimal with volume purchases. See the BRUSA unit proposed by Eberhard.

    People have to be able to charge effectively at home! Their own figures show that 90% of the charging is done at home.

    The 10 to 12 KW into a rectifier to make DC is OK at home, but then you have to have a DC charger while on the road to effectively charge. Why not put it into the car?

    I'm still confused.
     
  17. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    Wouldn't such an HPC3 be super-expensive? $20k+ (a figure I've seen quoted here for commercial DC fast chargers)?!
     
  18. W.Petefish

    W.Petefish Active Member

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    Not really. All you are doing with the 3ph charging is rectifying it into usable DC voltage. Then all that is left is the circuit that turns the power off at a given charge percentage. As Eberhard said it doesn't cost that much.
     
  19. medved

    medved Member

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    #19 medved, Oct 29, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2011
    What if a European finds someone in the States or Canada to buy the car for him there and then just asks him to ship the car to Europe? For he UK it probably wouldn't work because of the right -hand drive but for the rest of the Europe it should work. I know a guy who used to sell used Canadian cars to Europe. He just shipped a whole container of cars to Europe. I guess this way you could have the car in Europe faster than the official launch of European Signature series.
     
  20. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

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    Tesla warns specifically against doing that and the car might not meet the legal requirements to register in Europe.
     

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