Denmark: P90D sticker price to increase 180% on Jan 1 2016

[AndersH]

Colonial Americans launched a Revolution over a 2% tax on Tea.

Now the top marginal income tax rate is 39.6% plus State and Local taxes that can be as high as 10%.

But it all depends on what you get for your taxes. If all the basic services that a government should offer suck, any tax is going to seem unfair. I'm sure that stuff like law enforcement and fire services weren't that good in the colonial era.

As for the Model S as a luxury car, I agree with ozweepay. If you look at European-spec VWs Passats and Opel Insignias (which are mass-market mainstream sedans), you're going to find interiors that (to me) feel slightly more well put together and with a higher grade of materials than the TMS. The TMS is expensive due to the same reasons that early computers and mobile phones cost an arm and a leg.

 

[AustinPowers]

Actually our economy isn't doing great. It's tied to the price of oil, and as the oil price is dropping, activity in the north sea is dropping off and thousands of engineers have been fired. There's also some worry as to the consequences of the Syria refugees. The expectation is 30k refugees this year and maybe as many as 100k next year. That's a 2.5% bump in the population, all of whom will need housing and all sorts of support.

That is also a big point for debate in Germany currently. For this year the government expects up to 1,5 million refugees, plus uncertain numbers for 2016 onwards. Considering the impact such numbers are going to have on our welfare system (which is quite generous to be honest), people are worrying that the government will either raise taxes or cut back on subsidies (current or planned - like for EVs) to pay for the extra costs. we will see how this pans out.

 

[S'toon]

Colonial Americans launched a Revolution over a 2% tax on Tea.

Now the top marginal income tax rate is 39.6% plus State and Local taxes that can be as high as 10%.

That's not actually quite true. Colonial Americans launched a revolution over a tax BREAK to the East India Trading Company. This allowed them to undercut the local tea merchants.

Interestingly enough, the longest period of sustained growth without any crashes was when the top marginal tax rate was over 70%, at if I recall correctly income over $2 million in today's dollars.

- - - Updated - - -

Sounds like Denmark elected the Danish equivalent of Canada's Stephen Harper Conservative Party.

The country will also make diesel vehicles more attractive by canceling a pollution levy, according to provisions in the 2016 budget draft. The government is defending the measures by saying they will help businesses save money and create more jobs.

<snip>

As the world looks on in disbelief at Volkswagen’s emissions scandal, Denmark is pushing through policies that will undo the previous administration’s efforts to steer consumers toward environmentally friendly vehicles. One involves extending Denmark’s 180 percent levy to all cars, regardless of their emission levels; another concerns a special tax on Nitrogen-Oxide emissions, which are generated from burning fossil fuels and are more abundant in diesel than gasoline cars.

<snip>

Denmark’s move marks its latest shift away from measures that had once put the Scandinavian country at the forefront of innovative policies designed to promote renewable energy. The three-month old government has already said it is abandoning ambitious CO2 emissions targets and dropping plans to become fossil-fuel free by 2050. That policy shift was revealed on Sept. 2, the same day U.S. President Barack Obama made a global appeal for urgent action to fight climate change.

<snip>

According to other provisions contained in the budget draft, the Liberal government also plans to drop the so-called NOx tax, which was introduced by the previous administration to reduce pollution. The move will save businesses an estimated 240 million kroner in 2016, according to the Tax Ministry.
The resulting loss in revenue to state coffers is equivalent to 0.04 percent of annual receipts. But the timing of the move, coming at the height of the Volkswagen scandal, makes the political cost potentially higher.
"This government only supports old technologies and has no vision for the
future," Ida Auken, an opposition lawmaker who previously served as environment minister, told Bloomberg on Wednesday.

Full article at:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...tax-in-denmark-as-green-goals-get-left-behind

 

[modex]

It also means Tesla cars appreciate over time instead of depreciate.

Look at what happen at Denmark.

Model s owners will make money when selling their used Model S, so you should buy more now and sell later. :biggrin:

 

[Whitmarsh]

You can still have free healthcare and not pay 205% tax on cars. Where I live we pay 10% and have excellent free health care. When goods and services taxes become so punitive revenue can actually decrease as consumers stop buying (or they buy cheaper items to minimise tax).

i must admit you can't compare across countries as they all have different priorities and I know the Danish have a generous welfare system that would certainly be expensive to fund.

Well, in the UK we have a hugely expensive health-care system - and all sorts of other benefits - but we don't tax any car as heavily as Denmark and many other countries do even now, let alone after Jan 1. EV owners pay only 20% VAT on purchase but no Vehicle Excise Duty (which can be up to £1100 first year. £505pa thereafter), and are exempt from the iniquitous congestion charges that some cities levy. Furthermore, we get a one-off £5000 grant from the government. So move to the UK, all you Danes - our government seems to be more interested in the environment than yours!

 

[vitaliy]

Well, on the positive side, few hours ago Ukrainian parliament cancelled import duty on electric vehicles. About 28% savings until January 1, 2020

 

[e-FTW]

All the more reason, if it has not been mentioned before, to lock in your price now if you were on the fence about ordering.
Even if you will not be able to take delivery for months, you can put your deposit down now, and push back the delivery to somewhere in 2016. And take advantage of the referral credit. Like the one that comes with my link...
BTW, how much is the credit worth in Denmark?

 

[Spidy]

You can't lock in the price. You have to take delivery and register the car in Denmark this year as far as I know to avoid the tax increase.

Edit: Or was this about Ukraine? Then ignore the comment.

 

[e-FTW]

You can't lock in the price. You have to take delivery and register the car in Denmark this year as far as I know to avoid the tax increase.

Edit: Or was this about Ukraine? Then ignore the comment.

My bad, I forgot this was not a Tesla price increase to account for exchange rate variations. If you are in a country where the value of the local currency is going downhill vs US, then yes, definitely lock in the price now!
Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[veryannoyingname]

What happens if one buys elsewhere in the EU and then moves car to Denmark, does it get taxed the difference in VAT and registration fee of 180% again. Shocking amount of tax.

 

[rns-e]

What happens if one buys elsewhere in the EU and then moves car to Denmark, does it get taxed the difference in VAT and registration fee of 180% again. Shocking amount of tax.

No consideration to what you may have paid in registration tax anywhere else. The only thing that will matter after December 31st 2015, is weather the car has done under or over 2,000 km. If under 2,000 km it is considered new and will be taxed 25% vat and then 150% in registration tax based on the invoice (just been adjusted down from 180 % to 150% for all cars pr. January 1st 2016) If the car has done more than 2,000 km it is new and its resale value including tax and registration will be estimated and you will be charged accordingly.

Shocking amount of tax, maybe - but you also have to consider that the money you use to buy a car with is money that already have been income taxed with upwards 60%. So after January 1st 2016, you will need to generate approx. $800,000 of income to buy a $100.000 car after income tax, vat and registration tax.

 

[cynix]

No consideration to what you may have paid in registration tax anywhere else. The only thing that will matter after December 31st 2015, is weather the car has done under or over 2,000 km. If under 2,000 km it is considered new and will be taxed 25% vat and then 150% in registration tax based on the invoice (just been adjusted down from 180 % to 150% for all cars pr. January 1st 2016) If the car has done more than 2,000 km it is new and its resale value including tax and registration will be estimated and you will be charged accordingly.

Shocking amount of tax, maybe - but you also have to consider that the money you use to buy a car with is money that already have been income taxed with upwards 60%. So after January 1st 2016, you will need to generate approx. $800,000 of income to buy a $100.000 car after income tax, vat and registration tax.

What if I get my wife to buy the car in another EU country, then sell it to me for €1 before moving it to Denmark?

 

[rns-e]

What if I get my wife to buy the car in another EU country, then sell it to me for €1 before moving it to Denmark?

Oohhh - bad idea. That would be considered tax evasion. So not only would you have to pay the full amount, you would also have to pay a fine upwards 1.5x the amount you should have payed and because the amount is over 500,000 DKK (approx $70,000) you would likely have to serve some time as well.

 

[veryannoyingname]

What if I get my wife to buy the car in another EU country, then sell it to me for €1 before moving it to Denmark?

dont give Bjorn (the famous one making the tesla videos) ideas or instead of nimber he will start buying more teslas in norway and resell in denmark using your idea
Interesting query though.

 

[rns-e]

dont give Bjorn (the famous one making the tesla videos) ideas or instead of nimber he will start buying more teslas in norway and resell in denmark using your idea
Interesting query though.

From Norway into Denmark (and the rest of the EU) there will be an additional 19% in customs before the 25% vat and the 150% registration tax

 

[veryannoyingname]

From Norway into Denmark (and the rest of the EU) there will be an additional 19% in customs before the 25% vat and the 150% registration tax

Thought Norway had some special agreement with the EU just like the UK for trade purposes.

In the UK i have often bought stuff from various EU countries online as its often cheaper buying in the EU even after accounting for postage charges. I just get charged the extra difference in VAT and customs charges are exempted as it comes from the EU. Buying gadgets this way from germany and france etc is much much cheaper even after accounting for courier charges and have saved 30 - 50 % on deals compared to cost in the UK at that time and sometimes compared to the cost even now. Even buying from amazon in the EU (from various countries) and shipping them to the UK (with warranty) is still much cheaper if one researches and sets up instant alerts for deals for products that one is tracking.

Since Norway has their own currency but some type of agreement with the EU like the UK I thought the same would apply for cars as well. I cant buy cars in the EU and ship them here due to the left hand drive and right hand drive differences complicating matters unfortunately. Otherwise would have done that by now.

Looks like importing from the rest of the EU an used car one doesnt have to pay VAT or VAT difference compared to rest of EU but will need registration charges. So one could save 6 percent VAT buying from countries that have 19% VAT instead of 25% like in Denmark. No customs but dont know how the registration dept values the car for registration as they value the car. see SKAT: Importing cars and motorbikes

 

[rns-e]

Thought Norway had some special agreement with the EU just like the UK for trade purposes.

In the UK i have often bought stuff from various EU countries online as its often cheaper buying in the EU even after accounting for postage charges. I just get charged the extra difference in VAT and customs charges are exempted as it comes from the EU. Buying gadgets this way from germany and france etc is much much cheaper even after accounting for courier charges and have saved 30 - 50 % on deals compared to cost in the UK at that time and sometimes compared to the cost even now. Even buying from amazon in the EU (from various countries) and shipping them to the UK (with warranty) is still much cheaper if one researches and sets up instant alerts for deals for products that one is tracking.

Since Norway has their own currency but some type of agreement with the EU like the UK I thought the same would apply for cars as well. I cant buy cars in the EU and ship them here due to the left hand drive and right hand drive differences complicating matters unfortunately. Otherwise would have done that by now.

The UK is a member of the EU, Norway is not. That is also why all Teslas for the EU are going through Holland and cars for Norway are shipped directly to Norway

 

[veryannoyingname]

The UK is a member of the EU, Norway is not. That is also why all Teslas for the EU are going through Holland and cars for Norway are shipped directly to Norway

But Norway has agreements with the EU hence why they pay EU levies (for market access) while not having influence on formation of EU regulation unlike the UK, but both norway and Uk have their own currencies instead of the euro

 

[rns-e]

But Norway has agreements with the EU hence why they pay EU levies (for market access) while not having influence on formation of EU regulation unlike the UK, but both norway and Uk have their own currencies instead of the euro

Yes, and so does Denmark and Sweden. But you can not avoid customs on US cars in the EU by routing them via Norway, sorry

Here are the rules for the EU: Importing vehicles into the UK - GOV.UK, which are quite different from Danish rules, as the car is exempt from duty and vat if you are moving to the UK, it seams. In Denmark we do not have that kind of exceptions.

 

[veryannoyingname]

Yes, and so does Denmark and Sweden. But you can not avoid customs on US cars in the EU by routing them via Norway, sorry

Here are the rules for the EU: Importing vehicles into the UK - GOV.UK, which are quite different from Danish rules, as the car is exempt from duty and vat if you are moving to the UK, it seams. In Denmark we do not have that kind of exceptions.

VAT isn't normally exempted for other products that I have bought from the EU, you pay the difference in VAT if the VAT one paid abroad is cheaper. But no customs to pay.
Didn't look into it further as want sure if I could buy the version with the steering wheel on the right side for the UK in Norway etc and bring it to the UK. If possible then will have to explore this option as the savings would be worth the driving trip

I do know that Norway had some agreements with the EU regarding trade and market access so am not sure if the non EU import rules apply to Norway regarding imports to the UK.

As per EU rules the taxes are due in the country the product was bought in the EU and not the destination country except for VAT difference.

Since Norway is part of the EU / EEA the same rules will apply all over the EU / EEA area regarding where tax is due Countries in the EU and EEA - GOV.UK