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Design Flaw: Front End Collision = Expensive Repairs

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I'm sorry Cytek but you are the one that should actually learn some netiquette. One of the first things you learn is you don't cross-post, especially not without clearly telling this is crossposted. While you are at it you might want to tone it down when you ARE cross-posting. You might have a valid point but with this level of hostility you will only get hostility back.

Cobos
 
I apologize for my harshness. As Cobos noted, your approach was pretty aggressive which didn't help and you've completely failed to address any of the points people raised. All of which makes you sound like an anti-EV troll.
 
I apologize for my harshness. As Cobos noted, your approach was pretty aggressive which didn't help and you've completely failed to address any of the points people raised. All of which makes you sound like an anti-EV troll.

+1 for troll. I love the irony:

Ouch! I don't know what your frickin problem is? From your postings, your negative attitude sounds very obnoxious and rude.

Which is in itself about the most obnoxious and rude thing I've yet seen on this forum. If anyone deserves an apology it is you, ckessel.
 
Well this started as a somewhat reasonable question, but the original poster went off the rails with trollish behavior. I've gone ahead with a two week ban which may become permanent.
We will wait and see what the final design of Model S is, after they have done the crash tests on Betas. I am not going to say anything more to create a stir.
I suggest you please go feed your negativity elsewhere with your own attitude problem. I just don't waste my time with negative individuals like you. Your cooperation is greatly appreciated!
The original poster needs to take his own advice.
 
Well to cytek, you can't exactly blame us for being suspicious of your intentions.
1) Your first post in this forum is about this matter. Most reservation holders would first post some sort of introduction about why they decided to reserve a Tesla or post about their reservation number to help reservation estimates.
2) The posting smells like FUD to me, esp. given most cars seem to have a similar hood design. And reading your link about collision costs, it seems pretty clear you can't exactly tell repair costs just by looking at the exterior design of a car.
3) You didn't inform us you have already posted about this on the main Tesla Motors site.
 
The forum is not the same without cytek. He's still chugging along on the official Tesla forum. Banning him was definitely the right move. I just reposted what he wrote to verify that he's still attempting to spread his message.

cytek | JULY 14, 2011
For further clarification, when I am refering to front end collision, I am talking about a minor 3 mph bump, not actually crashing it at high speed. The structural body should withstand impacts at 3mph (human walking speed) by dispersing energy in the front beam. This is what bumpers are for to absorb kinetic shock energy. The problem with Model S front end is the aluminum bonnet curves down low and is the furthest end point to the front end with the grille. That's the first thing it will contact upon frontal impacts. There is no crumple zone for plastic front panels for cost effective replacement to absorb impact energy before it affects other parts like the bonnet. The grille will get pushed in and the bonnet will bend inwards easily. We know trucks and SUVs are higher and can cause more damage, but insurance institute uses standard bumpers (regular car height) to crash test them for analysis on rating insurance coverage premiums. If it looks as bad as Infiniti's damage, they will use that data to justify higher insurance rates for Model S. I have both Infiniti and Benz and they cost me $3000 and $2800 to insure both respectively with a clean driving record.

The main point I am trying to make here is on a minor 3mph bump on the front end (could be from parallel parking, parking lot, traffic jam, etc.), why should we pay over $10,000 just to fix the damage to the front panel, grille, aluminum bonnet, charging port (if in front), repainting, etc. from a minor bump, while on Audi A4, it only costs $1000 to repair with minimum body structural damage (as shown in video)? In most scenarios like this, it occurs when you are not present at your car and the culprit simply drives off! How are you going to claim that to the insurance without a proof of at-fault driver's ID, plates and no witnesses? A lack of proof for filing insurance claim will spark fraud suspicions. That's the point I am trying to make here. I am not trying to spread rumors, nor incite panic. I am applying logic with physics, when I see the Model S front end design as vulnerable to expensive repairs on a minor 3mph bump. I know the Model S is only a prototype/ Alpha stage to make a judgement. A well engineered car like Audi should be able to withstand minor impacts without any structural damage to the body.
 
I thought that there was a federal regulation for bumpers that had to meet minimum damage cost repairs for <3mph collisions. If I am correct and this is true cytek is full of it because the car would never be certified for sale in the US if it did not meet minimum requirements. It is addressed in this regulation, but I believe more detailed description is svailable.

Here is a better reference and explaination.
 
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On the internet, no one knows you're a dog.

Yeah, my troll sensors went up with the OP as well as with that latest post.

Funny, I haven't visited the 'official' forums since they lost their official-ness. Thanks for reminding me why! ;-)

I stopped checking it on a regular basis months ago. I went to the 'general' forum and the first 15 threads were all in Russian I think (not joking) so some kind of spam. I sent yet another e-mail to Tesla asking them to actually have someone moderate their forums and those posts are now gone.
 
2011 Hundai Sonata
2011_hyundai_sonata-hybrid_front_ns_32910_717.jpg
 
You can't drive any car out of a body shop without having spent $1,500.

Someone hit the rear of my Leaf while it was stopped. The rubber bumper cover got scratched, but nothing damaged underneath.
The other guy's insurance is now paying ~$1500 to have the bumper cover replaced. Yep about $1500 minimum...
 
He has impressive credentials and I made him mad. Gotta love the internet:
Bad Design : Front End Collision = Expensive Repairs | Forums | Tesla Motors
He has impressive credentials and I made him mad. Gotta love the internet:
Bad Design : Front End Collision = Expensive Repairs | Forums | Tesla Motors
He never addressed any of the points I brought up in this thread:
1) The only car with his suggested design in the IIHS test is the Volvo X60 and it was middling in frontal crash. All the other cars have the same hood design where the hood reaches all the way to the front surface.
2) The IIHS pointed out the bumper bar as a very important part of bumper costs. Given the picture of the Model S bumper bar (http://gigaom2.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/teslaalphatourfrontend1.jpg), does he have the expertise to determine how effective it is in low speed crashes (I suspect not)?

More points:
3) Why does he keep using the original prototype for comparison? The alpha has significant changes in the front bumper so that should be the basis for comparison.
4) He says the other cars are supposedly better because of the higher height of the hood line. It's hard to tell from photos taken at different angles how many inches difference this is and if it even matters in a full frontal crash (basically is the hood-line really below the top of the test bumper as he claims).
 
Someone hit the rear of my Leaf while it was stopped. The rubber bumper cover got scratched, but nothing damaged underneath.
The other guy's insurance is now paying ~$1500 to have the bumper cover replaced. Yep about $1500 minimum...
I think this depends on if you are doing the repair under insurance or if you are doing it out of pocket. Body shops seem to charge a much lower amount if insurance isn't involved (for example if you don't have comprehensive and have a parking crash or some other crash where there isn't a second party to pay for you). Once insurance gets involved, it's definitely in the thousands (even for what seems like minor things, since it seems when insurance is involved, body shops tend to completely replace parts even for what seems like minor scratches). I witnessed this first hand going around for repair quotes.

There's also alternatives like PDR (paint-less dent repair), which cost significantly less.