Destination chargers are mostly worthless

[Tam]

...For example the Ritz in Marana has them but it is very expensive and geographically isolated...

May be your subject is not that clear.

If something is worthless, we don't want it to multiply all over the place.

If something is useful, I do want the convenience of using it everywhere.

It sounds like you mean current objections are:

1) too few locations.
2) and if there are, they are not affordable.

So how do you want to solve those problems?

1) get rid of them all

or

1) encourage its growth
2) encourage "free" access (as in free dessert if you pay entree, free HPWC if you pay parking fee...)
3) just plain free with no asterisk attached.
4) ???

 

[tccartier]

AZred, if I understand you correctly, you have personal reasons to drive from Phoenix to Tucson and return in one day. I guess that it is about a 240-mile or so round trip for you--just a tad too far for a 100% charge at home and freeway speeds, plus whatever around-town driving you need to do. So, the Casa Grande Supercharger more or less is a stop-gap measure for you. But you would like to have "destination" charging throughout Tucson so that you could enjoy a lunch while adding enough range to make it home comfortably.

I am not convinced that the intended purpose(s) of Tesla's destination charging program was to provide charging en route for those of us who have a lengthy, one-day round-trip commute that is beyond the range of our batteries. This sort of availability may be coincidental to their stated purpose, but it is not driving Tesla's policies. I would submit that your particular situation is quite rare among us Tesla owners. (I have a similar situation during filing season. I help out a colleague that is 94 miles from home, 20% closer than your drive; I can make the round trip with a 95% charge. And there are zero charging locations in his community.)

I can offer up the suggestion that you contact a location that is proximate to your destination and see if they would be amenable to applying for a Tesla HPWC. Your comments do not indicate that you have taken any initiative in this regard. Why have you not been proactive in this respect? Secondly, I am positive that this time next year your plaint will be moot as there will in all likelihood be a Supercharger along Interstate 10 in the greater Tucson Metropolitan Area.

Tucson is a tough destination, Lots of level2 Blink etc. but few DCFC and no Tesla SC presence (they are supposed to be coming in "late" 2017) along with another in Wilcox along I-10.

I'm the polar opposite as I come to Tucson from Safford and it is all 65+mph rural and interstate which is outside the range of my (just ordered 2012 Signature 85 CPO VIN # 162 . Getting there is seemingly no issue, going where I would normally go and adding the needed level II charge time to get back home is going to be difficult. There are a few campgrounds in Wilcox that offer 14-50 240V connections so I'll need to keep the mobile connector in the car (along with as many adaptors as makes sense) "just in case". I'm hoping with VERY conservative driving and a 4hr. or so stay at a level II somewhere, I can make the trip until the SC in Tucson and Wilcox come online.

*Note I've been driving a Volt for the last four years (which the M/S is replacing, and have been plugging in as often as possible and seeking places that offer charging "free or not" just to try and use them so those that install them might see some value.

I'm also listed on Plug share and have 240V 40A. service available at my home free to any who stray out this way need a top off or full charge etc.

 

[rypalmer]

Destination charging is the only way in and out of Atlantic Canada at the moment.

They are very useful and save considerable time where Superchargers are available too though I tend to add a buffer now just in case of technical difficulties. Starting the day with 100% range must save at least 30 minutes per day.

 

[Fiver]

Seems like the vast majority of people here think of hotels for destination charging. We installed them essentially for marketing my bosses gyms, with pretty good results. If you have a Tesla, why not get some miles put on it while you work out or lounge by the pool? Helps hold existing members and gives potential new members a reason to sign up.

We are about to start the destination process for his restaurant also. Again, I look at it as marketing. Come for the food, get a few miles while you eat as a bonus. Costs him maybe $1, but he more then makes that up in revenue from people eating. It's win win.

The one thing I've learned about chargers that aren't "super" is that you can never rely on them. If you REALLY need to use a destination chargers or public J1772, you need to call ahead and make arrangements to be sure you can get access. Never just assume it's going to be there waiting for you. (Especially after the 3 is out in force)

 

[wdolson]

Seems like the vast majority of people here think of hotels for destination charging. We installed them essentially for marketing my bosses gyms, with pretty good results. If you have a Tesla, why not get some miles put on it while you work out or lounge by the pool? Helps hold existing members and gives potential new members a reason to sign up.

We are about to start the destination process for his restaurant also. Again, I look at it as marketing. Come for the food, get a few miles while you eat as a bonus. Costs him maybe $1, but he more then makes that up in revenue from people eating. It's win win.

The one thing I've learned about chargers that aren't "super" is that you can never rely on them. If you REALLY need to use a destination chargers or public J1772, you need to call ahead and make arrangements to be sure you can get access. Never just assume it's going to be there waiting for you. (Especially after the 3 is out in force)

I think putting in destination chargers anywhere people might be for an hour or more is a great idea.

There are a lot of wineries on the west coast that have destination chargers. Here in the Portland area there is a chain of places called McMenamins. They have a number of restaurants around the area that are kind of brew pubs, but they also have bought a number of older facilities and turned them into destinations with a lot of activities. The one nearest to us started out as a poor farm, then was a retirement home, and finally they bought it and turned it into a variety of places. They have a brewery, winery, and distillery on the premises, a golf course, spa, movie theater, a few restaurants, and a hotel. Other places have other mixes of things depending on the size of the property.

At minimum I think they would really benefit from installing destination chargers at their larger properties. The one near here is on the road out of Portland to the east and there are no Tesla specific chargers between Portland and the Dalles. For people who have been running around Portland and are leaving town eastbound, they might want to top off there and get something to eat and see the sights. For people visiting from out of town, it would be a destination charging hotel option that isn't in downtown Portland and it would draw people in to experience the weirdness of the place (they have bizarre art in every nook and cranny).

 

[DRasheed]

While I don't agree with the thread title that destination charging in general is worthless, I do agree that the current state of destination charging is too unreliable to be very useful. I am mostly talking about hotel destination charging here.

If I am planning a trip and that trip requires a destination charge for me to avoid running completely empty, I find myself very nervous about whether the destination charger will be available and operational. In my eye the main culprit is the "first come first serve" model. I think for hotel destination charging to be more useful (and less stressful) there needs to be a reservation model, when you can reserve a charging spot when you reserve your room. If all the charging spots were reserved for that night, you would know when you tried to book your room. I think it would be reasonable for hotels to charge a fee, maybe $5-10 per night. In return the hotel would be expected to keep the spot open for you and make sure the charger is working.

I don't see this model really catching on until there are a lot more long range electric vehicles. Right now it's not worth the trouble for a hotel to put in the charger and set up the process for reservations when it is <1% of their business.

 

[TexasEV]

Don't forget you can almost always charge at 120V if the HPWC is not available. Carry the 5-20 adapter with you, and you'll get 5-6 miles/hr at 16A. (Commercial outlets are usually 20A). That's a good chunk of range overnight to get you somewhere that you can charge faster.

 

[Dwdnjck]

Tesla destination charger at Castillo de Amarosa in Napa valley last week got me a primo parking spot and 30 extra miles when the parking lot was completely jammed. The attendant suggested I park there even after I informed him that I did not really need to charge. Nice. Good for them because I bought a case of wine. No way I would have done it if I I had to carry it to where I would have had to park,otherwise.

 

[dhrivnak]

OK, now that I have your attention, I seriously do questions their value. My limited experience with destination chargers is that they are too slow and too restricted to be part of my trip planning. I would drive my ICE rather than counting on destination charging and when we get rid of our last ICE this Fall, I would rent an ICE rather than counting on destination charging for my Model 3 and Model S.

I am sure this thread will generate negative reactions and hopefully not just a bunch of lazy, worthless thumbs down. If you believe I am wrong, tell me what I don't understand. I am interested in hearing how great destination charging is.

I TOTALLY disagree here. I often pick eating and hotel stops based on charging. For us Roadster owners that can't Super Charger a 70 amp destination charger is like finding gold. An extra 60 miles at a lunch or dinner stop is VERY handy and very much appreciated.

I have helped install three of them so far and I am working on other establishments. I really do appreciate Tesla's efforts here and they have been great to work with.

 

[DRasheed]

Don't forget you can almost always charge at 120V if the HPWC is not available. Carry the 5-20 adapter with you, and you'll get 5-6 miles/hr at 16A. (Commercial outlets are usually 20A). That's a good chunk of range overnight to get you somewhere that you can charge faster.

I hear what you are saying. But if I pull into a hotel at 9pm with 40 miles of charge, and I need 150 miles of charge to get back to the supercharger, it isn't a good situation if the L2 charger is not usable for any reason. First I have to talk to the front desk to figure out where an outlet might. They almost certainly won't know so then I have to search around the building. In my experience the outlet I find (if i'm lucky enough to find one) will only provide 3-4 miles per hour. I personally have never seen these 120V outlets that charge at 16 or 20 amps. That means I need to be there for about 30 hours to get the 110 miles I need!

Alternatively I'm searching plugshare to find a nearby L2, but unless I am lucky enough to find one within walking distance of the hotel I have to drive there and sit with my car for 4+ hours either tonight or in the AM to get the range I need.

Therefore I am hesitant to plan any trip that relies on a destination charge.

 

[TexasEV]

If you think you've never seen a 20A outlet, then you may not know what to look for. This is a 5-20 outlet:

Most 120V outlets in commercial locations have this sideways T which indicates it's a 20A circuit. But to draw 16A (80% of 20A) you need to use the UMC 5-20 adapter which has one vertical and one horizontal prong. If you plug the 5-15 adapter in which came with the car, you will be limited to drawing 12A. The difference of 4A may not sound like much but it's been calculated that it gives 42% more range. Once the overhead of car systems is accounted for, the extra amps all goes to range.

I'm currently staying at a hotel where I get 6 miles of range overnight using the 5-20 adapter, drawing 16A at 116V.

 

[DRasheed]

Interesting. Did not know that. Where could I get one of these 5-20 adapters? How much are they?

Edit - just answered my own question after 5 seconds of google. Available from Tesla for $45