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Determine Cost Per Mile?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by wrf2e, Jul 30, 2017.

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  1. wrf2e

    wrf2e Member

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    Math makes my brain hurt. I've done some digging and haven't found an obvious answer yet (or it went over my head). I was wondering if anyone has a formula for determining the cost of electricity per mile on the Model 3. I'm assuming we need the usage rate (energy used/miles driven), then we can take usage rate and multiply that by cost of electricity to give us cost per mile.
     
  2. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    If the efficiency is the rumored 0.237 kWh / mi which it's likely true, then it's your price / kWh * 0.237.

    My current house it's 10 cents always, so $0.10 / kWh * 0.237 kWh / mi = $0.0237 ... so if you were to round up and include some charging losses it's a little less than 3 cents per mile.

    My prius, for comparison, gets 44 mpg and gas is recently $2.25 so $2.25 per gallon / 44 mpg = $0.051 so compared to a prius, the Model 3 would cost about half as much per mile.
     
  3. wrf2e

    wrf2e Member

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    Wow! If those numbers are remotely accurate we are looking at $6.60 for 220 miles. My current vehicle gets 27 MPG and at $2.20 per gallon it's roughly $18 to go the same distance.
     
  4. smartypnz

    smartypnz Supporting Member

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    Yep sounds right - close to our Model S. Our PG&E Rate goes down drastically at night and most of the weekend. Ya just gotta know when to schedule the charging.
    Here gas is currently about $3.50 - our Bimmer (ICE) avgs 27 MPG, so close to 13 cents per mile. So the savings are better than what we calculated before we purchased over 4 years ago.
     
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  5. Haxster

    Haxster Member

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    Be careful about energy cost savings.
    Consider this scenario:
    After tax credits and rebates, you pay $10K more for a Tesla (or another EV) than a comparable ICE car.
    You save $0.10 per mile on "fuel".
    After 100,000 miles, you break even (10,000/0.1). All else being equal (and it's not), the pure economics don't look that great.

    Bottom line: Buy a Tesla for one of its other compelling benefits...not to increase your net worth.
     
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  6. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    I'm having a hard time imagining such a scenario... maybe you can help me out.
    What is the equivalent full self driving hardware capable ICE with a 0-60 in 5.1 seconds or less with the same level of safety? :p
     
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  7. wrf2e

    wrf2e Member

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    I am buying this car because it is cool. Not to save the planet or money. However, those arguments do go a long way in getting my wife on board.

    Edit to add: The energy cost savings should just about cover the difference in payment between my current vehicle and the Model 3.
     
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  8. b team

    b team Member

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    Breaking even over 10 years sounds reasonable. Unless you pay for the car with cash, the extra cost is also paid out over time, not all at once--albeit a somewhat shorter period of time.
     
  9. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    Depends... Model 3 has greater safety than most. One has to ask themselves what is the cost if they get into a bad accident and get injured in an ICE or any car with worse specs. Is there even a price you can put on that?
     
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  10. Randy Spencer

    Randy Spencer Member

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    I started with electric motorcycles and thought When I hit 15,000 miles this bike will pay for itself... odd how people try to justify EVs with breaking even. When did we say that about buying the BMW? Heck even the old cop bike I had before? It was just about having a vehicle, we all have to get around somehow. People can buy an old Chevette or a new Corvette or anything in between based on your needs, wants, and abilities. For most electric cars to date perhaps the focus on paying for itself has been all about the inability to get rid of your original car that you still need for long trips to grandma's house. I would think buying a M3 would not have the breaking even issue, just buy it because you need/want it and can afford it and make it your car, not your other car.

    -Randy

    ...yeah, I know, I have too many cars
     
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  11. jsmay311

    jsmay311 Member

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    The latest info suggests it's slightly higher.

    The stated charge rates of 30 miles/hour at 32A and 37 miles/hour at 40A suggest overall efficiencies of 0.256 and 0.259 kWh/mile for the standard and long-range batteries, respectively.

    The blurry photo of the Monroney sticker shows 126 MPGe, which is 0.267 kWh/mile.
     
  12. chronopc

    chronopc Member

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    I can live with 0.267 kWh/mile. That means each mile will cost me 5.34 cents. This is before taking into account all the EV electricity rate incentives around me.
     
  13. Reciprocity

    Reciprocity Active Member

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    Add solar for even bigger savings. My current rate is 10.6c/KWh but solar should bring that down to around 5c/KWh or about 1/4 the cost of gas for a Prius. I think EVs are going to drive huge demand in solar. Its pretty simple really. Today you might spend $400 a month on gas, that would drop to $200/mo. in electricity, which you could then drop to $100/mo. in electricity or less with Solar. I am in Chicago so its not like Florida and CA where there is tons of sun, but we have some pretty nice incentives and net metering.
     
  14. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    I hope the price of solar goes down dramatically in the near future. Utilities in many states are increasing fixed costs and doing away with any net metering benefits.
     
  15. Reciprocity

    Reciprocity Active Member

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    Costs will come down, its inevitable. Either the cost will remain the same and the performance will improve or both the cost down and performance will improve. I say performance and not efficiency, because solar is now a 30 year investment, so the longer the panels last and product at near the peak, the cheaper they are. Of course higher efficiency is the easiest way to improve performance and that will go up over time as well which will have an inverse effect on costs.

    Today, for me at least, net metering is just a battery that stores the excess energy I was able to create. Net metering its not really required anymore, just buy a power wall and you dont need net metering. As long as your system is right sized, then power walls can take the place of net metering. These costs will improve as well as will life spans and durability in terms of the total number of cycles before they start to lose capacity improves. At the end of the day, net metering should be available because there is no delivery cost. Your excess energy goes to the house next door, so the loss and infrastructure impacts are negligible and thus no need for excessive delivery fees (for me about half my 10.6c or more is delivery fees). I havnt really bought into the idea of battery backup for your house so to me the only real use of PW2 is to offset net metering. Nat gas generators are just to cheap to compete with at this point.
     
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  16. ArizonaP85

    ArizonaP85 Member

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    I'm afraid that any focus on cost of electricity per mile is wildly misplaced, certainly for the first few years of ownership, because it is mere rounding error in the total cost of ownership.
    While sales tax, insurance, vehicle license tax, etc. can be significant, by far the largest component of cost of ownership is depreciation. Look around this site and see folks trying to sell low mileage P90DLs for tens of thousands of dollars less than they paid, often more than $5 cost per mile in depreciation alone!
    Yes, cheaper models do not depreciate quite as badly and you may plan on amortizing your car's cost over a ten year, 150,000 mile life -- but what happens if it is wrecked and you are forced to sell through the salvage process? Keeping in mind that, due to Tesla's extremely stringent requirements for its approved body shops and post-repair inspections, Teslas are far more likely to be totaled than conventional cars with similar damage. Maybe you could find a similar model with similar specs and similar mileage for the same money, but not likely: Teslas aren't (at least not yet) Camrys, dime a dozen same-same appliance mobiles available everywhere all the time.
    If the difference between two, five or even ten cents per mile electricity cost is significant to you, then I suggest looking for a high mileage used car of any kind where you could enjoy a total cost per mile of 25 cents or less. Any new car, even a Tesla, over the first few years, will cost several times that much. Heck, look at a common 8% sales tax on $100,000 Tesla: if you drive a common 15,000 miles per year, amortized over the first two years, the sales tax alone is over 25 cents per mile!
    The one potential advantage to Model 3 owners who get their car early in the "S" curve: if you sell, forced or otherwise, while there is a still large pent-up demand, then you should enjoy little depreciation loss. On the other hand, you won't be able to replace it until that pent-up demand is met.
    Good luck and my take away is that I hope you enjoy driving your Tesla for many years to come! Then the other costs will diminish enough to make electricity cost a meaningful factor.
     
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  17. wrf2e

    wrf2e Member

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    I appreciate your input. Of course I realize the cost of ownership on new vehicles is high due to depreciation. The desire to determine cost per mile is more for sport than logic, and selling points for my wife.
     
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  18. Stolz25

    Stolz25 Member

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    If you aren't paying cash then the cost is higher and the calculation has to be redone.
     
  19. Topher

    Topher Energy Curmudgeon

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    What? They are dropping like a rock, and have been for years. Current prognostication is -4.4% per year. For me, in not-so-sunny Maine, I pay about 1/2 the residential rate.

    Thank you kindly.
     
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  20. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    People always cite the rates they pay but don't include the installation cost and any fixed costs to the utility company. At -4.4% percent means I'm still going to be waiting another 5-10 years. I do hope it's sooner rather than later though.
     

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