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Did Ford Just Crush Tesla Motors?

Discussion in 'Cars and Transportation' started by Kevin Sharpe, Jan 14, 2012.

  1. Kevin Sharpe

    Kevin Sharpe Active Member

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  2. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    Same old bs blogs. The energi is a competitor to the volt, not the S. We all know how well the volt is selling(there are multiple volts available for sale here,and they aren't moving).
    I wouldn't even consider the ford, just like I wouldn't consider a volt.
     
  3. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    Interesting article. People are looking for practical solutions for their lives; relatively few are purists who buy a product for idealistic reasons -- especially if that product is a big-ticket item. Tesla has to make a compelling case that BEV satisfies customers' needs and desires more effectively. The vast storage area may be a decisive plus in Tesla's corner, as well as improved safety and reliability.
     
  4. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

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    I have to say, Ford did an amazing job of design with the new Fusion. It's gorgeous!!! That said, the hybrid is going to be VERY expensive and it'll likely have the same limitations as the Volt with regards to storage and complexity. It certainly won't have the Model S performance, even with the standard S.
     
  5. EVNow

    EVNow Active Member

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    Obviously these are fools who don't understand the market.

    Energi will be a very good competitor to Volt, PIP, Camry Hybrid & now Accord PHEV. I don't see any S buyer moving to Energi.
     
  6. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    Model S will be a superior car with vastly superior:
    1) cargo volume
    2) passenger space
    3) ride & handling
    4) acceleration & smoothness
    because it is clean sheet of paper EV.

    To me, the lack of an ICE, transmission, gas tank, muffler, catalytic converter, etc is not a negative, it is a huge positive.
    My family and friends have lots of experience with those things failing and needing to be repaired or replaced.
    The convenience of long distance drives is diminished, but the convenience of everyday driving is better.

    I will save a lot of money by not buying gasoline, but even if electricity cost was only a break even - I do not want any of my dollars going to oil companies and where their oil comes from.

    Tesla has to reach 0.14% of the car buying public to sell all the Model S cars. The other 99.86% can remain unconvinced.
     
  7. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Different animals, different market. Zero competition for the Model S. S buyers want an EV.
     
  8. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    It may be fair to say Model S buyers lean EV, but I've seen quite a few posts, mostly on the Tesla forums, saying they don't really care much about it being all electric. That said, I don't think the Ford model is really competition except perhaps at the very low end for Model S buyers that don't think they can afford the base model.
     
  9. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Could be I suppose, but I'd be surprised to find out that anything more than a small minority of S buyers don't care that it's an EV.
     
  10. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    I think that most people are interested in the model S because it IS an EV. I would venture a guess that many would be Volt or the like shoppers would be willing to upgrade to Tesla, but not too many interested in the S would even consider a Downgrade to the Volt/Energi. It's kind of a one way street, especially after a test drive.
     
  11. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    True, at least for now. I'm not a fan of Motley Fool's insights, but I think they did have the following part right.

    Telsa has the EV crowd, but is going to need to get non-EV people interested at some point.
     
  12. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    I agree. I initially put down a deposit on a Volt when I naively thought it was the only "electric" car being offerred. Later when I realized a real electric car was being offerred, I canceled my Volt reservation and reserved a Model S. We will consider the Cadillac ELR "extended range electric vehicle" when it is released as a possible backup ICE vehicle for very long trips.

    Larry
     
  13. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    A friend of mine who had an order in for a Volt cancelled after I took him to see the Model S Beta. He was very impressed, and is planning to wait and save up for one.
     
  14. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    #14 Larry Chanin, Jan 14, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2012
    The title of the article, "Did Ford Just Crush Tesla Motors?", is pure melodrama.

    I agree that for the BlueStar vehicle that Tesla needs to win over the non-EV mass market. For the Model S, while many of the early adopters are EV people, the fact is those in the market for a luxury sedan will see the clear advantages of this car over competing luxury cars in its class. The luxury market will appreciate the performance, style, safety, cargo space, technology, etc., and therefore the next wave of Model S buyers won't neccessarily be EV people.

    Larry
     
  15. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    I think you guys have been drinking a bit too much kool-aid.

    Don't get me wrong, after about 3,000 miles of test drives, I love the Roadster. But I also think GM have built an excellent car in the Ampera. Not perfect, but we know about what perfect is. I never thought I'd buy a Vauxhall a few years ago either but from my earlier test drive, I think they smashed it out the park. Time to give up the badge snobbery.

    I'm in the top 5% of UK earners. I'll back Tesla all the way, but I'm not going to go for a Model S because although I could afford the 160 with cash, now (at least on dollar values), I am not putting down that much money on a car that as others have pointed out, will not be able to meet even the most regular of my non-work journeys after a few years of ageing. Lack of rapid charging on the lower models is a big miss.

    Tesla still has a lot of work to do to get to the 3 Series equivalent. I'll be cheering them on, but I'll be doing it from a PHEV while they figure it out.

    It looks gorgeous, but I'm done with waiting and saving. I'm ready to go yesterday.

    GM and now Ford will allow many people to do much of their driving on electric. There is no BEV in that sweet spot yet. Pretty soon BMW, Audi and Infiniti will arrive there. As I said before, if Infiniti gets to that £35k level with their 2014 sedan and it has CHAdeMO, then Bluestar has a tough hill to climb. Seems to me they could add £10k of batteries to the LEAF platform and give it better looks and leather pretty easily. I wonder why no manufacturer has jumped in there yet?
     
  16. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    No kool-aid here. If you are wanting to save money, buying a new car is not the way to do it, period.

    Teslas are fun to drive while looking good and having exclusivity.

    An ampera/volt, not so much.

    The wait sucks bigtime though.
     
  17. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    It's not just about saving money. I want to drive electric. I want a car that is a good drive and I want practicality. My first hand experience of the Ampera says it is that.

    If I just wanted to save money I'd be buying old bangers. I bought my current car brand new... in 2002.

    I guess I wasn't clear enough. If Tesla can't get my custom because the S160 doesn't cut it and (I'm assuming because we still don't know UK prices) the S230 is too much, then they are still targetting a pretty niche market.

    If there were absolutely no options in the PHEV space then I might eat beans on toast for 3 years to get an S230 with rapid charge. But there are, they meet 100% of my needs 90% electrically, and that is what the crux of this article in the first post is about.
     
  18. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Then you should definitely get what works for you and maybe look at things again when bluestar arrives. A different car working for you however, does not imply ford has crushed Tesla. Take a look at the various polls. With an admittedly-small sample size, it's clear that even after pricing and the news of what standards tesla will support, there are many who will still be buying one -- whether it comes with a glass of kool aid or not.
     
  19. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    No, no, I'm not agreeing that Ford has crushed Tesla. Just that they can definitely skim people from the bottom end of Model S. BMW and Audi more so when they get their act together. Audi talked about an A5 PHEV. I'd probably jump ship to that from the Ampera at the right price and spec.

    Looking at the polls to me highlights the issue. E.g. as I said I'm in the upper 5% of earners, yet that would still have me in the lower third of this one Model S Buyers: What's Your Income? - View Poll Results So be careful that your circumstances aren't colouring your views on what the mass market tolerates.

    That says that the EV crowd, which some have assumed are onboard by default, may not be. I'd love a Model S but I am not clearing my bank account out and giving me no safety net just to get the right one. Then there are the accessories like thousand pound cables when others cost £200.
     
  20. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Agreed on the market segment bit, but again, we have to remember the model s isn't bluestar. It's supposed to be a semi-expensive luxury car.
     

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