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Did I purchase a car or a very large xbox?
- Thread starter Kimmi
- Start date
You purchased a tablet with a car attached to it...
...and once a year or more, Tesla's 20-something pool of kid programmers will randomly mess around with all the dials, controls, and indicators in absolutely nonsensical, and often dangerous ways without consulting automotive or visual display experts of any kind.
They'll continuously shrink the font size on important elements, place indicators in unexpected new locations, and bury others layers deep in a menu.
They'll also mix and match bright icons for important controls in primary colors with more sensible, simple monochrome icons, just to confuse your mind that little extra amount.
...and once a year or more, Tesla's 20-something pool of kid programmers will randomly mess around with all the dials, controls, and indicators in absolutely nonsensical, and often dangerous ways without consulting automotive or visual display experts of any kind.
They'll continuously shrink the font size on important elements, place indicators in unexpected new locations, and bury others layers deep in a menu.
They'll also mix and match bright icons for important controls in primary colors with more sensible, simple monochrome icons, just to confuse your mind that little extra amount.
I think you can view it either way.
(Original article link…where their links work. And yes, the chart is technically the S/X with a separate GPU, not a 3, but still…yeah you can still say that.)
www.notateslaapp.com
(Original article link…where their links work. And yes, the chart is technically the S/X with a separate GPU, not a 3, but still…yeah you can still say that.)
Tesla making progress on Steam integration, demo 'next month'
Tesla CEO Elon Musk says that the company is getting closer to integrating Valve's Steam gaming platform into its in-car gaming console. This integration wou
www.notateslaapp.com
If you got Model 3 - you purchased a car
Though the poster talking about Tesla messing up perfectly good UI with updates and making it worse does have a point.
Now if you purchased a redesigned Model S - you got some boondogle, be it xbox or whatever. It is obviously a joke. Not talking about the original Model S - that was a revolutionary car for its time and amazing. The redesign looks like it was designed by a 12-year old. There will be a few oddballs here and there that will buy one (there always are) and mostly for the acceleration. But nobody on the market for S-class level priced luxury vehicle will seriously consider Model S. It has exactly zero reasons to exist - except as a technology demonstrator.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
MEANWHILE BACK IN REALITY....
As it did before the refresh, the Model S continues to absolutely dominate the full size luxury car sales segment, outright lapping Mercedes S class at over 2x their sales, and in fact outselling the next THREE best selling cars in the class combined
Ah - it's so easy to manipulate statistics to show whatever you want.
We will leave aside the fact that your figures are US only - and if you do worldwide the Mercedes S class outsold dramatically Tesla Model S. We will also leave aside the fact that Model S is new release so have some initial bump in sales.
Let's look at the source of your data: 2022 Tesla Model S Sales Figures
I am sorry but we cannot really buy that Tesla sold 167 thousand Model S. The whole number presented is bogus.
Whereas per Mercedes-Benz S-Class Sales Figures Mercedes sold 8,736 S-class in 2022 in the US and another 14,284 in 2021 plus 544 more in Canada.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Probably because the Model S wasn't being exported to most countries in Q2 because demand exceeded supply in the US alone..... though demand overseas remains high as well and there's plenty of threads on here of folks anxiously awaiting their pre-orders of a Model S for when Tesla gets back to having enough to export to them.
So yes, it IS easy to manipulate stats I guess
But that's ok! We can just go back to when they WERE exporting them and compare..... guess what happens?
Tesla Model S, The Biggest Selling Luxury Car In Europe
Tesla Motors all-electric Model S is the best selling luxury car in Western Europe, accelerating past traditional high-status and internal combustion engine powered favorites like the Mercedes S class, BMW 7 Series, Audi A8 and Porsche Panamera. In 2015 Tesla sold 15,787 Model S sedans, beating...
www.forbes.com
Oh you mentioned Canada BTW? Let's check the last full year before the last refresh was announced shall we? All numbers from YOUR preferred website BTW (more on that in a bit)
2018- 2250 Model S sold in Canada.
How'd Mercedes S class do?
2018- 903 sold.
So again, Tesla Model S lapped Mercedes S class in sales.
Even in 2019, when production/export was winding down on the old Model S, Tesla in Canada still sold 1320 of them.
Mercedes S Class in Canada in 2019? 828.
Uh, what?
The refresh Model S has been out over a year now.
Apart from which, I just showed you the Model S, even just before it's FIRST refresh was also outselling Mercedes outside the US.
This is funny... because that was NOT my source.
My source was... the same website you just claimed we can trust!
All of which is kind of besides the point though.
It's not even that The Model S keeps beating the hell out of the Mercedes S class any time both are available in the same market... it's that YOU claimed
"nobody on the market for S-class level priced luxury vehicle will seriously consider Model S"
Meaning S-class sales ought to be VASTLY higher everywhere both are available.
And that turns out to be kind of the exact opposite of reality.
Pro tip- when you find yourself in a hole- stop digging.
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And that says it all.
You are comparing all sales of redesigned Model S - which are in pretty much entirely the US - to a very small part of the sales of Mercedes S Class (most of which are outside US).
Writing 7 pages praising the virtues of Model S before the redesign - and how well the NOT redesigned version sold in past years basically agrees with what I said. In case you missed it: "Not talking about the original Model S - that was a revolutionary car for its time and amazing. The redesign looks like it was designed by a 12-year old."
thesmokingman
Active Member
Your Xbox just happens to come on four wheels. I don't see the problem there?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Decided to dig yourself a deeper hole I see
Anyway what It says is your original claim has been repeatedly proven wrong and you've given no evidence to contradict this
...what?
First:
I compared only US sales of Model S a year after the redesign to only US sales of Mercedes S class.
Tesla sells more apples to apples.
THEN
I compared Canadian sales of Model S before the refresh to Canadian sales of Mercedes S class.
Tesla sold more apples to apples.
THEN
I compared EUROPEAN sales of Model S BEFORE THE REFRESH to Mercedes S class EUROPEAN sales.
Tesla sold more apples to apples.
While we're at it- since you're so concerned about post-refresh, outside the US looking again at YOUR source:
2021 Mercedes S Class sales in Canada: 544
2021 Tesla Model sales in Canada: 602
In short every market where both cars are for sale- US, Canada, and Europe- buyers prefer the Model S- before AND after the refresh- to the Mercedes S class.
Thus utterly debunking your absurd claim that
Not only do they consider it-- it's what the majority of them buy. In every single market both are an option, and for years and years, including pre and post refresh in every country both are sold.
Your attempt to cherry pick away notwithstanding (like how magically US and Canadian buyers aren't part of "nobody on the market" or something....)
And you can be sure once EU exports ramp up again as production scales, they'll once again outsell the S class there too, just as they have in past years when they were sold in the EU.
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You are effectively arguing with facts against an “I don’t like it, so I will never understand, and won’t accept why someone else would” mentality. It won’t matter what data you choose to use.Decided to dig yourself a deeper hole I see
………….
Anyway what It says is your original claim Your attempt to cherry pick away notwithstanding (like how magically US and Canadian buyers aren't part of "nobody on the market" or something....)
And you can be sure once EU exports ramp up again as production scales, they'll once again outsell the S class there too, just as they have in past years when they were sold in the EU.
I was pretty sure that was the mindset with the initial post, and as it has developed it became clear.
Gotta say that I highly doubt Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, and similar (or more prestigious) brands are even interested in competing with sales numbers of something like the Model S.
Not only are there likely real limitations in the skilled craftspeople and quality materials available to produce vehicles at this level, which is not a level the Model S inhabits, but exclusivity is part of the appeal in brands like these. If there was an S-class on every corner, or even just a Mercedes on every corner, the brand would see attrition in what the three-pointed star represents and what particular model lines represent.
Tesla had that exclusivity earlier when production numbers are low, but that's no longer the case and Tesla wants a Tesla on every corner. Elon has straight up said that complexity is their enemy, they're trying to streamline and simplify everything and produce massive numbers which is a philosophy entirely opposite of these top luxury brands. As you move up the price and prestige scale, production numbers dwindle until you reach the level of Bugatti / Pagani / Koenigsegg etc who will intentionally produce limited runs of vehicles to both engineer in exclusivity and protect the buyer's massive investments. Brands like these will even sue parties who list the cars at below what the company believes they're worth, because a low sale price can set a precedent that harms other owners.
Both mass production and limited custom/luxury production have their own challenges and can be admirable for different reasons, but there's little point in comparing a Casio to a Rolex.
Not only are there likely real limitations in the skilled craftspeople and quality materials available to produce vehicles at this level, which is not a level the Model S inhabits, but exclusivity is part of the appeal in brands like these. If there was an S-class on every corner, or even just a Mercedes on every corner, the brand would see attrition in what the three-pointed star represents and what particular model lines represent.
Tesla had that exclusivity earlier when production numbers are low, but that's no longer the case and Tesla wants a Tesla on every corner. Elon has straight up said that complexity is their enemy, they're trying to streamline and simplify everything and produce massive numbers which is a philosophy entirely opposite of these top luxury brands. As you move up the price and prestige scale, production numbers dwindle until you reach the level of Bugatti / Pagani / Koenigsegg etc who will intentionally produce limited runs of vehicles to both engineer in exclusivity and protect the buyer's massive investments. Brands like these will even sue parties who list the cars at below what the company believes they're worth, because a low sale price can set a precedent that harms other owners.
Both mass production and limited custom/luxury production have their own challenges and can be admirable for different reasons, but there's little point in comparing a Casio to a Rolex.
I guess my English is not very good. Or alternatively your reading comprehension isn't.
Nobody is talking about Model S before the refresh.
I know when you are ideological you always try to misrepresent things to support your argument.
So let me put it in a different way. Tesla sold about 120K Model 3s in Q2 2022 and 8K (redesigned) Model S. Much worse ratio in Q1 2022 - a lot more Model 3 and a lot fewer (redesigned) Model S. Model 3 is an actual useful car. Redesigned Model S is a joke; it has few sales as a technology demonstrator - and honestly if the roadster was out even those sales would implode.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Dude.
I cited the post refresh Model S outselling the S-class Mercedes in 2 different countries (including the one that is the largest non-china car market in the world)
Your claim is laughably, provably, wrong.
When people have a choice between a Model S and an S-class, pre OR post refresh, more choose the Tesla. Every time. In multiple countries. On multiple continents.
The only difference pre/post refresh is the chip shortage has limited production on the S. They keep selling all they can make and have a backlog beyond it....currently 3-6 months of backlog in the US alone.
If "nobody" was considering buying one it not only wouldn't STILL be outselling the S-class as it always does in every market they offer both- it wouldn't have a 3-6 month backlog before you can buy a new one.
But keep digging- maybe when you reach china you can tell the folks in Shangai why their cars suck too
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The only difference between pre/post refresh is that pre-refresh is a normal car, though dated by now. The post refresh is goofy boondoggle shaped as a car on the outside. But keep trying to equate both of them, That's not spin at all...
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Then it's really weird it keeps outselling the S-class in every country both are sold- even post refresh.
Almost as if your claim nobody that "nobody on the market for S-class level priced luxury vehicle will seriously consider Model S" is a thoroughly debunked fantasy but you're incapable of accepting reality as demonstrated with actual facts and data.
Sadly there's a lot of that going around.
Really you should stop. You started with a simple point that, paraphrasing, was that you didn't like them and you didn't think other buyers of...specifically and S Class...would consider it. An opinion simply based on your distaste for the current design. Since then, any time actual data related to either pre-or post facelift has been presented you have attempted to counter it with absolutely nothing beyond that, again...you don't like it. To be frank, and probably considered rude on this forum, you have progressed to the childish insistence of a 12 year old at this point.
We get it. You don't like it. You don't understand why a buyer in that market would want to buy one. That doesn't change the way the world is working, it is obvious that others do not share the same tastes. That does not make your tastes wrong, nor does it make theirs right. It does however make your initial point wrong, which seems to bother you greatly. Please...just accept that others in the buying market - according to data - do not have your same opinion, and disengage pleasantly, especially on what was a particularly humorous thread to start with.
And how many post-refresh Model S did you buy - to show you strong support and positive opinion of it??
I actually considered buying one - that is until I saw what the post-refresh is, which put an end to that. So I am an actual buyer - that went away; unlike you - so you'll excuse me if I don't take your opinion with great regard. And yes - that is my opinion only - to which I am very much entitled. Sorry if you find it in bad taste.
The reason is - paying double the Model 3 price for redesigned Model S - you get a bit more range and acceleration. That's it. In return you have to put up with extraordinarily bad internal design decisions. All the features that differentiate Mercedes S class from C class, or BMW 7 series from 3 series. Are. Simply. Not. There. I'm sure when Tesla did consumer focus groups among the $100-130K range buyers (which the other brands do on a regular basis) - those consumers told them they want a wanky yoke, a tiny button for a horn, and so on and so forth. They don't want HUD; or top camera - or any of the actual luxury features. Oh wait - that's not what happened. There were no such focus groups. The 12-year olds that designed this figured they don't need to - they know what people want, why would they ask. Must have been hired from Apple.
Again, your only point is you don’t like it and that you do not understand why someone else would. After you have been shown the data that YOU initially said did not exist.
You still insist like a child on ignoring that your opinion is not the only one out there. You don’t like it. Don’t buy it. But stop acting immature.
You are simply, now, struggling to change your initial point and simply embarrassing yourself. Again, like a child. Seriously, get a sense of humor and stop.
You still insist like a child on ignoring that your opinion is not the only one out there. You don’t like it. Don’t buy it. But stop acting immature.
You are simply, now, struggling to change your initial point and simply embarrassing yourself. Again, like a child. Seriously, get a sense of humor and stop.
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