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Did I purchase a car or a very large xbox?

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The reason is - paying double the Model 3 price for redesigned Model S - you get a bit more range and acceleration.


I'm not sure a lot of people would call going from 3.1 to 1.9 0-60 "a bit more" acceleration.

The Plaid S is the quickest production car in the world.



I'm sure when Tesla did consumer focus groups among the $100-130K range buyers (which the other brands do on a regular basis) - those consumers told them they want a wanky yoke, a tiny button for a horn, and so on and so forth. They don't want HUD; or top camera - or any of the actual luxury features. Oh wait - that's not what happened

Are you sure?

Because in every market where a buyer has a choice of either of those, or the Model S refresh, they choose the Model S in overwhelming numbers.


Which again appears to confirm how nonsensical your earlier claim of "nobody on the market for S-class level priced luxury vehicle will seriously consider Model S" was


I eagerly await your next fact-free rant continuing to stomp your feet and insist otherwise though!
 
You purchased a tablet with a car attached to it...

...and once a year or more, Tesla's 20-something pool of kid programmers will randomly mess around with all the dials, controls, and indicators in absolutely nonsensical, and often dangerous ways without consulting automotive or visual display experts of any kind.

They'll continuously shrink the font size on important elements, place indicators in unexpected new locations, and bury others layers deep in a menu.

They'll also mix and match bright icons for important controls in primary colors with more sensible, simple monochrome icons, just to confuse your mind that little extra amount.
And you win the internet because that is so damn true.
 
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I'm not sure a lot of people would call going from 3.1 to 1.9 0-60 "a bit more" acceleration.

The Plaid S is the quickest production car in the world.





Are you sure?

Because in every market where a buyer has a choice of either of those, or the Model S refresh, they choose the Model S in overwhelming

He is not sure of anything other than being completely set in his own opinion. You have repeated and successfully disproven his original point. His response has been to deflect from the original point and to stick stubbornly to that no one else could have a rational viewpoint different than his. At this point his replies have simply become an embarrassing hilarity, which is the primary reason I have been sticking around.

He can't stick to his point. I loved pivot to the "And how many post-refresh Model S did you buy.....I considered one." It has absolutely nothing to do with his original point, and lack of supporting data for his point. Is was simply an insecure pivot to attempt to claim that I couldn't have chosen to buy either...and allow him to put himself as the "better." Again, sticking at the 12 year old bully point. As we go, it is simply getting better and better.

st_o_p - other than your own pitifully unsupported opinion, do you actually have data on anything, or are you actually just struggling with the concept you are yet again wrong. This has really gotten to the point where everyone else understands how embarrassing it is for you, although you don't.

However, it is possible that you will yet bring humor back to this thread. Please have a great day, as at least you don't have to put thought into opinions, it should make it easier for you. :)
 
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He is not sure of anything other than being completely set in his own opinion. You have repeated and successfully disproven his original point. His response has been to deflect from the original point and to stick stubbornly to that no one else could have a rational viewpoint different than his. At this point his replies have simply become an embarrassing hilarity, which is the primary reason I have been sticking around.

He can't stick to his point. I loved pivot to the "And how many post-refresh Model S did you buy.....I considered one." It has absolutely nothing to do with his original point, and lack of supporting data for his point. Is was simply an insecure pivot to attempt to claim that I couldn't have chosen to buy either...and allow him to put himself as the "better." Again, sticking at the 12 year old bully point. As we go, it is simply getting better and better.

st_o_p - other than your own pitifully unsupported opinion, do you actually have data on anything, or are you actually just struggling with the concept you are yet again wrong. This has really gotten to the point where everyone else understands how embarrassing it is for you, although you don't.

However, it is possible that you will yet bring humor back to this thread. Please have a great day, as at least you don't have to put thought into opinions, it should make it easier for you. :)
Funny - you're the guy that told me to stop posting because you consider my postings rude (not for anything directed at you - but for expressing my opinion).

You must be new to the Internet - and public forums. Let me help you there. If you find a post rude - you don't need to read it. Particularly, you don't need to respond to it. If you don't - then there will be no further discussion. What you don't get to say to other people is "you should stop posting because I disagree with your opinion".

As for my original point - it was very simple: the redesign of Model S produced a turd. No more and no less. And yes - that is an opinion - which I backed up. However - I make a point A and you guys go ahead and disprove some other point B - classic spin. Posting sales figures for a different older car (pre-redesign Model S) - which has nothing to do with what I said. Posting sales figures for 1 quarter for redesegned Model S - in the US only - then claiming it outsold Mercedes S in every country (obviously wrong). Then coming back and saying we proved our point B - so you are wrong. And in the process posting pages and pages of unrelated information, and keep arguing. Finally telling me to just shut up. I'll leave it to you to figure out which of us is more "rude" and self-entitled.
 
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Well - I don't know it for a fact. I have no internal Tesla information - so it's an educated guess. But can you believe they polled affluent car buyers and the response was "we only want yoke, we absolutely don't want steering wheel" ??


Well, more such buyers pick the one with the Yoke than the Mercedes S class in every country where both are available-- so it seems more likely that's the case than not :)



As for my original point - it was very simple: the redesign of Model S produced a turd. No more and no less. And yes - that is an opinion - which I backed up.


Backing something up doesn't mean "continuing to repeat it even after the claim has been debunked with actual facts"


However - I make a point A and you guys go ahead and disprove some other point B - classic spin. Posting sales figures for a different older car (pre-redesign Model S) - which has nothing to do with what I said. Posting sales figures for 1 quarter for redesegned Model S - in the US only - then claiming it outsold Mercedes S in every country (obviously wrong).

I mean- now you're just outright lying about who said what.

Last act of a desperate man and all that.



Nobody claimed it outsold the S-class in countries the Model S isn't currently sold in of course. Just that Model S outsells the S class. Quarter after quarter. In EVERY country BOTH are available. And has for years, before and after the refresh.

So again, your original claim is factually untrue

Contrary to your debunked claim, every time an actual buyer in this class (the thing you admitted you were not) has a choice between the S class and the Model S (even post refresh), more of them pick the Tesla than the Mercedes. In multiple countries.


It's ok your opinion isn't shared by most. That's why it's an opinion.

It was your hilariously nonsensical insistence it was ever more than that that was the problem- your failed attempt to speak for "buyers in this class" when you yourself admit you weren't actually one, and all available data proves your opinion on what they'd prefer is exactly backward.

Sad you're now being dishonest about what others said to try and deflect from being wrong.
 
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Funny - you're the guy that told me to stop posting because you consider my postings rude (not for anything directed at you - but for expressing my opinion).

You must be new to the Internet - and public forums. Let me help you there. If you find a post rude - you don't need to read it. Particularly, you don't need to respond to it. If you don't - then there will be no further discussion. What you don't get to say to other people is "you should stop posting because I disagree with your opinion".

As for my original point - it was very simple: the redesign of Model S produced a turd. No more and no less. And yes - that is an opinion - which I backed up. However - I make a point A and you guys go ahead and disprove some other point B - classic spin. Posting sales figures for a different older car (pre-redesign Model S) - which has nothing to do with what I said. Posting sales figures for 1 quarter for redesegned Model S - in the US only - then claiming it outsold Mercedes S in every country (obviously wrong). Then coming back and saying we proved our point B - so you are wrong. And in the process posting pages and pages of unrelated information, and keep arguing. Finally telling me to just shut up. I'll leave it to you to figure out which of us is more "rude" and self-entitled.
I don't believe anyone has accused you of being rude. I have accused you of being childish, as you continue to display. If you would like to continue to discuss internet forums - being childish is the continued insistence that your view is the only view, in face of actual data beyond your opinion. This is typical behavior of those who do prefer to hide behind internet forums and self-congratulate themselves on their own importance. You seem very good at it, and very well versed in it. To your point, you could have long ago acknowledge that your opinion is your opinion and many others, many others buying cars have different opinions.

Your original point was not that the redesign was a turd. It was that no one considering an S Class would seriously consider a Model S. A point you have repeatedly been given data on, that you choose to ignore because you cannot see beyond your own viewpoint. You have been given sales figures for both pre-and post designs, in the markets they are available for and continue to ignore them, preferring your own opinions.

As far as rude....so far I'm not sure anyone has been. As far as exhibiting a self-entitled and childish attitude, you sir have...in almost every post and each expression. You chose to inject your opinions on a thread that was seriously all in jest and started very humorous. You've added levity to the thread only at your own expense. I'm not sure that was your original intent.

So far you really have added no content to the general comparison of a game console to a vehicle, but you have sure made sure everyone knows your all important opinion of the redesign of the Model S. Maybe here I should loop back to internet forums and public posts and your experience...maybe you should know that in general you should have attempted to stay generally on topic of the thread. But maybe you knew that and just chose to ignore that.
 
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Well, more such buyers pick the one with the Yoke than the Mercedes S class in every country where both are available-- so it seems more likely that's the case than not :)





Backing something up doesn't mean "continuing to repeat it even after the claim has been debunked with actual facts"

You guys continue to complain about the fact that I "continue to repeat it" - but that is exactly what you are doing; at this point everything sounds like a broken radio. I'll admit - you're wearing me down so at some point I'll stop posting this discussion in circles.

Nobody claimed it outsold the S-class in countries the Model S isn't currently sold in of course. Just that Model S outsells the S class. Quarter after quarter. In EVERY country BOTH are available. And has for years, before and after the refresh.

So again, your original claim is factually untrue

You continue to mix things I claimed with things I never claimed - and then proving the ones I never said wrong. You continue to talk about pre-refresh Model S selling in other countries - which has nothing to do with my point. And finally - the easy escape - "in countries where both are available". So if redesigned Model S is only available in the US - somehow magically that proves that it outsold Mercedes S class "in all countries". I'm not even going to go there - let's just take 1 country - Germany. Redesigned Model S did NOT outsell S class, period. Posting sales for 1 country for 1 quarter (and surprise, the best selling quarter) doesn't prove anything. And no - it doesn't disprove my point redesigned Model S is a turd.
 
Your original point was not that the redesign was a turd. It was that no one considering an S Class would seriously consider a Model S.
The 2nd point was derived from the 1st. And I was specifically talking about redesigned Model S - something I pointed out repeatedly but you guys choose to ignore.
I can teach you about figures of speech - how you point out something to imply something that obviously follows from it. But I guess you should just go learn on your own.

As far as rude....so far I'm not sure anyone has been. As far as exhibiting a self-entitled and childish attitude, you sir have...in almost every post and each expression. You chose to inject your opinions on a thread that was seriously all in jest and started very humorous. You've added levity to the thread only at your own expense. I'm not sure that was your original intent.

I am very sorry if this discussion derailed your thread. I made a point in passing you guys (and you personally) chose to insist on debunking it in countless posts. If you had let it be - it wouldn't have happened; so in a way you derailed your own thread. You should learn to take responsibility for the outcome of your own actions - it's a much better way to live (though most people don't practice it).

Ok - you're right - I'll stop posting; this is getting ridiculous.
 
You continue to mix things I claimed with things I never claimed - and then proving the ones I never said wrong. You continue to talk about pre-refresh Model S selling in other countries - which has nothing to do with my point.

Again you are being dishonest in your discussion. From the very start sales #s debunking your nonsense claim were provided both prefresh and post refresh

Both showing the same thing.

But as a reminder-Here again are your own, actual, words that are factually wrong that you refuse to admit are wrong despite all evidence to the contrary and NONE to support them

you said:
"nobody on the market for S-class level priced luxury vehicle will seriously consider Model S

Instead the facts show that among those in the market for this range of car, the majority, when they have a choice of either vehicle (including post refresh, chose the Model S over the S-class.


That's kind of the opposite of "nobody"

Your claim is factually untrue


Not sure how you keep "misunderstanding" this.



And finally - the easy escape - "in countries where both are available".


That isn't an easy escape it is the criteria you created

YOU are the one who specified a situation where a buyer has a CHOICE BETWEEN EITHER CAR.

So obviously only markets with both cars are relevant

And in every one of those your claim is factually wrong about the post refresh Model S.


In reality MORE people not only "seriously consider" the Tesla over the S-class, more of them actually buy it


Bonus hilarity--- you claim you "considered" a refresh Model S too. Yet admit you did not buy an S-class instead--- which suggests either you admit your own claim is nonsense, or you were never seriously "considering" a car in that price range anyway :)
 
The 2nd point was derived from the 1st. And I was specifically talking about redesigned Model S - something I pointed out repeatedly but you guys choose to ignore.
I can teach you about figures of speech - how you point out something to imply something that obviously follows from it. But I guess you should just go learn on your own.



I am very sorry if this discussion derailed your thread. I made a point in passing you guys (and you personally) chose to insist on debunking it in countless posts. If you had let it be - it wouldn't have happened; so in a way you derailed your own thread. You should learn to take responsibility for the outcome of your own actions - it's a much better way to live (though most people don't practice it).

Ok - you're right - I'll stop posting; this is getting ridiculous.
No. You made one single point. With no data, but you stated it as a factual. You have since been trying to deflect from that and refusing to pay attention to any data you were shown. You were given the points on pre-and post design, which you stubbornly ignored because they conflict your opinion. You have since tried to deflect from your original point.

Sure...you can try to teach about figures of speech - which will again be you deflecting from your single original, unsupported point as you try to avoid (again) the data you were given.

Oh, I haven't insisted on debunking it. I have insisted on calling out your childish and silly behavior as you were given data that contradicted your points and you stubbornly continued to try to shift your points and argue without basis. I agree it has been absolutely ridiculous. However, watching someone make an embarrassment of themselves can also be entertaining and in this case watching you do so has been interesting.

And please don't apologize for derailing a threat. 1) It was not my thread to start with, 2) you were well aware of what you were doing. And insincere apology is simply more of the childishness.

Have a good day.
 
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So obviously only markets with both cars are relevant
For post-refresh model S you only provided data for Q2 2022 for the US. Single country. Then you pretend that's Ok because supposedly it's not being sold elsewhere (I don't know if it is or if it's not). One data point doesn't prove anything. 95% of your data was pre-refresh Model S sales - and like I said 20 times I have no issue with that car. You picked the one sentence I used where I left out the words "post refresh" - and you keep pretending I'm arguing something I'm not.

Bonus hilarity--- you claim you "considered" a refresh Model S too. Yet admit you did not buy an S-class instead--- which suggests either you admit your own claim is nonsense, or you were never seriously "considering" a car in that price range anyway :)
Really? Show me where I said I didn't buy S class. So more spin and you making up stuff I never said.

But if you want me to go into details - I did not yet buy anything. Our older car is due for replacement - can happen soon, or I can postpone it for a bit if I don't like what's on the market right now, and the overall situation (yes inflation keeps pumping prices up but we're on the cusp of a major recession so expect deals to be had few months down the road). My point is - I seriously considered Model S - but after seeing what the redesigned did - I eliminated it as an option. I don't need 1.9s acceleration. What I need is not there - basic luxury and comfort. I may get and EQS - that is still a question mark. (Speaking of which - if you want to compare Model S vs Mercedes - you should probably add EQS + S class sales numbers - but they don't necessarily publish the breakdown we need here).

Redesigned Model S is simply a tech demo - it can sell to the crowd buying McLarren - but that's almost non-existing numbers. It is not in the market segment where upscale sedans (over $100K go). It has the price for it - but not the features.

Honestly, if I was in the market at the price point of a Model S Plaid, it'd be the benchmark I'd compare every other option to. And I'd probably end up with the Plaid.

Sure buddy. Plenty of 22-year olds have that perspective. The point is - you cannot afford a car in that price range. The 50-something year olds that actually drop $120K on a car have a different perspective.
 
For post-refresh model S you only provided data for Q2 2022 for the US. Single country. Then you pretend that's Ok because supposedly it's not being sold elsewhere (I don't know if it is or if it's not). One data point doesn't prove anything. 95% of your data was pre-refresh Model S sales - and like I said 20 times I have no issue with that car. You picked the one sentence I used where I left out the words "post refresh" - and you keep pretending I'm arguing something I'm not.


Really? Show me where I said I didn't buy S class. So more spin and you making up stuff I never said.

But if you want me to go into details - I did not yet buy anything. Our older car is due for replacement - can happen soon, or I can postpone it for a bit if I don't like what's on the market right now, and the overall situation (yes inflation keeps pumping prices up but we're on the cusp of a major recession so expect deals to be had few months down the road). My point is - I seriously considered Model S - but after seeing what the redesigned did - I eliminated it as an option. I don't need 1.9s acceleration. What I need is not there - basic luxury and comfort. I may get and EQS - that is still a question mark. (Speaking of which - if you want to compare Model S vs Mercedes - you should probably add EQS + S class sales numbers - but they don't necessarily publish the breakdown we need here).

Redesigned Model S is simply a tech demo - it can sell to the crowd buying McLarren - but that's almost non-existing numbers. It is not in the market segment where upscale sedans (over $100K go). It has the price for it - but not the features.



Sure buddy. Plenty of 22-year olds have that perspective. The point is - you cannot afford a car in that price range. The 50-something year olds that actually drop $120K on a car have a different perspective.
Ahhh.....so you keep doubling down, without acknowledging your original 'point' was nothing more than an unsubstantiated opinion you can't believe anyone else would not agree with. Expected. I think this would be a good place to point out that YOU were the one who chose to compare a Model S to an S Class. You had the option of basing your opinion on an EQS, but you were far too focused on forcing your opinion on everyone else.

You - predictably try to elevate your own standing, trying to impress everyone that you can apparently 'afford' an S Class vehicle. Well, I don't believe anyone has questioned that you can - I'm also pretty sure no one here cares if you can or can't. I hate to break the news to you, but really they are in reach for most people on this forum. It is quite apparent that it is related to your own view of your self-worth, but no on else here cares at all.

You end with trying to assume that someone else cannot afford something you claim to be able to afford - based on a comment of being in the market at a price point. Shopping in a price point rarely related to ability to afford - unless of course the only point is to try impress oneself. Again, you are back to trying to impress yourself with your on perceived success. You then come back to the point that no one else can possibly have a viewpoint different than your own.

You have throughout this post continued to exhibit both the childish and typical bullyish behavior, without actual substance, that we all have come to expect from your posts. You have still managed to not add actual content to the thread (but neither have I)....but maybe you are starting to understand that the only actual reason anyone is sticking around this now is to see what pathetic embarrassing statement you make next. Pretty much everyone is laughing at you at this point.

Keep having a great day.
 
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:) Well - your posting finally degenerated to full page personal attack - but at least we can agree on 1 thing.
Not really, just have been pointing out exactly how you have been behaving, from the begining. It isn't actually a personal attack, just observations on how you interact, but you are quite welcome to take it however you would like.. As I have said all along, you have continually acted like a petulant child. You graduated to insulting others as you continue to try to pat your own ego. It has been and continues to be both pathetic and humorous.

At least you are no longer trying to insist that your original point was not actually your original point. You seem to have given up on that.

Like I said, most anyone here is just laughing at you. Keep smiling.