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Did Tesla just kill the Model S 75D?

Ofarlig

Member
Mar 4, 2018
258
231
Sweden
I love tech so I think it would be cool if it was more innovative. For example, using the selfie camera to see head position and overlay red squares around pedestrians or animals. Or navigation that looked like it was floating in 3D over an exit.

If it was only for a speedometer or generic arrow, I don’t think it’s necessary. Before owning the car, I’d say absolutely, but now it’s a solid maybe? I’m comfortable with all the information (AP, nav, speed, energy bar) being on the one screen. It would feel a bit redundant and you’d lose that unobstructed view.

So, if it was sufficiently advanced, I’d probably use it regularly. If it was just a version of what we already see (like BMWs), I’d be less inclined or maybe only use it at specific times. Probably for navigation so I didn’t need the audio prompts.

If it came with the car day one (like an iPhone with a snap on keyboard), I’d probably feel much more strongly about using it.

How have they solved navigation on the 3? All the videos I see it is about the same as the center screen on the S but some useless "instruction style" navigation on the far right. I really do not like the center screen for navigation in the S, it is more for an overview of the area ahead, any turn by turn is completely done by the nav in IC. Have I missed something where they have it more like the IC nav but on the main screen?
 

MarkS22

Member
Apr 6, 2015
796
1,985
Morris County, NJ
How have they solved navigation on the 3? All the videos I see it is about the same as the center screen on the S but some useless "instruction style" navigation on the far right. I really do not like the center screen for navigation in the S, it is more for an overview of the area ahead, any turn by turn is completely done by the nav in IC. Have I missed something where they have it more like the IC nav but on the main screen?

It resembles the new nav on the Model S IC. You see a very slick animated route, highlighted in blue, that smoothly zooms and changes perspective depending on speed and your next move. I find this subtle motion of the map, not just panning, brings my attention to it when needed. Before your turn, you see an icon of the number of lanes and the one(s) you can use is blue, while the others are gray.

That said, I do agree the text on the right might be more usable on the left, but I’m not sure if that would look cluttered or take away from the above “peripheral effect.”

I tend to use the navigation on the MCU on the Model S. For some reason, I never took to it on the IC over three years. My album art/media info is usually there, but the 3 can have it on the bottom of the nav at all times. On the Model S, I lose media info when navigating unless I want half of a 17” display to show it. Half the screen just to know a song name or how much time is left in a podcast. The 3’s “drawer style” media player where you can drag it up to see more is perfect for me. It could be why I don’t miss the IC as much.
 

ghouston87

Member
Mar 7, 2017
53
47
Houston, TX
I thought the opposite, if given the choice between a 75d and a Performance 3, I would choose the S, acceleration is slightly slower but still pretty damn fast. Bigger, nicer looking but for me the thing that keeps pushing me to the S is the free supercharging and infinite mile 8 year battery and drive train warranty. I drive about 36,00 miles a year. Use supercharging ALOT. so the S would still be my to go option.
 
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davinci2017

Member
Feb 3, 2017
267
275
Milpitas, CA, USA
I thought the opposite, if given the choice between a 75d and a Performance 3, I would choose the S, acceleration is slightly slower but still pretty damn fast. Bigger, nicer looking but for me the thing that keeps pushing me to the S is the free supercharging and infinite mile 8 year battery and drive train warranty. I drive about 36,00 miles a year. Use supercharging ALOT. so the S would still be my to go option.

Quite right
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,416
7,586
Seattle area, WA
I love tech so I think it would be cool if it was more innovative. For example, using the selfie camera to see head position and overlay red squares around pedestrians or animals. Or navigation that looked like it was floating in 3D over an exit.
Unfortunately unless you are a cyclops, this is requires tech beyond today because each eye needs to have its own image projected. To see the problem, while sitting in a parked car, close one of your eyes, find a street sign in the distance, put a smudge on the windshield where the sign is, open the other eye and look through it to see what the smudge covers. You could do it with 3d glasses (active or passive) but very few people want to be wearing special glasses for the car (just like very few people watch 3d tv).

If it was only for a speedometer or generic arrow, I don’t think it’s necessary. Before owning the car, I’d say absolutely, but now it’s a solid maybe? I’m comfortable with all the information (AP, nav, speed, energy bar) being on the one screen. It would feel a bit redundant and you’d lose that unobstructed view.
Interesting. I wonder if the speed was on the front HUD at the same time as on the side screen, would you still be looking at the side screen or start using the basic HUD instead. If the latter, would it make your driving even a tiny bit safer by not moving your attention away from the road, or do you think the need to keep looking to the right keeps you more alert/awake?

I always wondered whether the 3 doesn't have an instrument cluster because Elon drunk his own coolaid and figured FSD would be the main driving mode by the time 3 comes out.
 

democappy

Member
Jul 13, 2016
228
180
Charlotte, NC
I will just add my thoughts which mimic a lot of others. I have never gone near the top speed in my S, so that doesn't matter to me. I rarely get below 70% charge rate, so range doesn't matter much to me. I have a 60 with a slower acceleration than the current 75D and I have never needed faster acceleration. However, I do certainly care about price, so you got me on that one.

For me, my car is a family car. Maybe I would get tempted for the cheaper price, but I think I would still go for the bigger, roomier, smoother car. I am not trying to buy a track car or try for super sporty handling or anything..
 

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
5,351
6,012
Snohomish, WA
The vast majority of people can't order either a P3D or the regular Model 3 LR AWD.

By the time they can the Model S would be revamped to make the interior more luxurious, and to have more range equality between the two.

It's not the speed that makes the AWD LR 3 attractive, but it's the range.
 
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MarkS22

Member
Apr 6, 2015
796
1,985
Morris County, NJ
Unfortunately unless you are a cyclops, this is requires tech beyond today because each eye needs to have its own image projected. To see the problem, while sitting in a parked car, close one of your eyes, find a street sign in the distance, put a smudge on the windshield where the sign is, open the other eye and look through it to see what the smudge covers. You could do it with 3d glasses (active or passive) but very few people want to be wearing special glasses for the car (just like very few people watch 3d tv).

Yeah, I understand the difficulties of aligning an augmented reality display. If it’s designed to be on a plane sufficiently distant from the car the parallax between two eyes should be minimal, no? Most HUDs are designed to look like they’re floating well in front of the car so you don’t have to adjust focus as much. I don’t think you’d need glasses if it had to be 3D because the driver’s head is in a relatively stable location. It really only gets tricky when you have to support many seating positions in a large horizontal area. But we’re getting complicated now especially for a car windshield application.

Interesting. I wonder if the speed was on the front HUD at the same time as on the side screen, would you still be looking at the side screen or start using the basic HUD instead. If the latter, would it make your driving even a tiny bit safer by not moving your attention away from the road, or do you think the need to keep looking to the right keeps you more alert/awake?

I always wondered whether the 3 doesn't have an instrument cluster because Elon drunk his own coolaid and figured FSD would be the main driving mode by the time 3 comes out.

I really don’t know. I’d probably use the one on the HUD. I think they’re really just trying to hide things that are less needed to make it cleaner for eventual FSD. For example, does an average driver in an automatic ICE car really need full-time RPMs? I think we tend to get used to things and it often prevents us from making leaps. Sometimes it’s a misstep but it doesn’t feel that way on the Model 3 to me. It just feels cleaner and simpler. I’d probably have purchased the iPhone with a physical keyboard if given the option. So yeah, if you put nav or speed right in my face, I’d probably use it but that doesn’t mean it’s definitely the right thing to do for a pure driving experience. Maybe it is, though.
 
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Ofarlig

Member
Mar 4, 2018
258
231
Sweden
It resembles the new nav on the Model S IC. You see a very slick animated route, highlighted in blue, that smoothly zooms and changes perspective depending on speed and your next move. I find this subtle motion of the map, not just panning, brings my attention to it when needed. Before your turn, you see an icon of the number of lanes and the one(s) you can use is blue, while the others are gray.

That said, I do agree the text on the right might be more usable on the left, but I’m not sure if that would look cluttered or take away from the above “peripheral effect.”

I tend to use the navigation on the MCU on the Model S. For some reason, I never took to it on the IC over three years. My album art/media info is usually there, but the 3 can have it on the bottom of the nav at all times. On the Model S, I lose media info when navigating unless I want half of a 17” display to show it. Half the screen just to know a song name or how much time is left in a podcast. The 3’s “drawer style” media player where you can drag it up to see more is perfect for me. It could be why I don’t miss the IC as much.

Ah okay, sounds like something in the middle.

the IC nav is always way more zoomed in and shows a different perspective and to me is way more usable in actualm navigation than the MCU nav. Dont really care about media information in the IC though.

I think the screen is a big thing for me in the 3 vs S, as well as the alcantara headliner. Come to think of it theres not much I see myself liking more on the 3 except for the more sporty drive, which would be fun some of the time.
 

chispas

Member
Jan 14, 2018
221
296
Bay Area, CA
I would still choose the Model S. I have a toddler and an infant and between the car seats, the stroller, etc. the extra space is much needed. I like the exterior of the S better and the IC screen.

Probably what that envy about the Model 3 is a better MCU UI (although I haven’t played with it enough is seems better thought out) and the range + faster charging.
 
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City Racer

Member
Aug 4, 2017
92
91
Palo Alto, CA
The Model 3 Performance is very nice, but it doesn't suit my needs. I prefer the size of a S. I need the luggage capacity. I like the fact that it's a hatchback. I also much prefer having the gauges in front of me plus the MCU. 0 to 60 in 3.5 is fun once in a while, but driving like that all the time is not comfortable. The 75D already has more performance than most people need in daily use. Going faster is just academic.
 
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Ofarlig

Member
Mar 4, 2018
258
231
Sweden
I should probably add that I also like the charging speed and efficiency of the 3. That is most likely the biggest pull at this point, although that only comes in hand a few times a year where I would go far enough to have to charge many times.
 

bhzmark

Active Member
Jul 21, 2013
3,425
5,168
After driving the Model 3 for over 3,000 miles now the single screen has become a non issue. For me it was similar from moving a Blackberry with its keyboard to an iPhone as I really thought the keyboard was far superior. And while maybe it was the iPhone really works well without one. So don’t knock the screen until you have a couple of thousand miles under your belt.

+1
And without having to view instruments through the steering wheel, it can be smaller like a go cart steering wheel, which I found better.

Model S still has hatch, better backseat and third row option as the main reasons to buy over M3. It truly serves as an SUV for most uses.
 
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whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,416
7,586
Seattle area, WA
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MarkS22

Member
Apr 6, 2015
796
1,985
Morris County, NJ
0-60 is always nice, but so is 60-0:
Tesla Model 3 shows 60-0 mph braking weakness in CR tests, Tesla fires back with own test results

That is 34 feet longer than P85D measured on the same track:
Tesla P85D Handling, Braking, 0-60 Test Results

Of course Elon said it can be fixed over OTA - standard go to answer for Teslas (I'm still waiting on the "passing speed power" OTA to make my my car produce 691hp what was supposed to come 3 years ago).

He did also "promise" (cough -- on Twitter) that even if it required a hardware change, they'd do it. I suspect they may need to replace the pads. They may work well initially but then glaze over, so future attempts are less effective. Hopefully an OTA will solve it, but I think new brake pads is a worst case scenario that isn't too bad.
 

MXWing

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2016
7,294
17,888
USA
In the meantime, I’ll keep trying to convince myself that the Model 3 Performance will some how work for me, as it is half the price of my car!

If I could have a free S or a free 3, I would take the free S.

If I had to pay for one, is the S TWICE as good as the 3 for twice the price? Would love to see an intelligent argument favoring the S at double the price.

I'm not rich so I can't pay 70,000 for a speedometer - comparing P3D vs P100D and addressing the "main" complaint..

If I needed tons of room, the money is better spent going towards an X.

There will be a lot of deniers and disagreers here but truth is the truth.

Vader is Luke's dad no matter how much Luke complained about it not being true.
 
Last edited:

PhaseWhite

Member
Aug 12, 2017
856
2,316
Minneapolis,MN
With last night’s announcement of the Performance Model 3, how do you justify buying a Model S 75D?

Model 3 Performance:
- 3.5s 0-60mph
- 310 miles range
- 155 mph top speed
- 78k all options included (except autopilot)

Model S 75D:
- 4.2s 0-60mph
- 259 miles range
- 140 mph top speed
- 74.5k (without any upgrades)

The P3D probably has better margins for Tesla than the S75D and they will be able to churn them out faster because of the simplified design. Both good reasons they should let it outsell the 75D.
 
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