Did Tesla mention why they changed from Michelin Ps4's to Pzeros on model 3 Performance?

[lUtriaNt]

Ive been looking for discussions on this in the model 3 forum and have not found any that answer this direct question. pardon me if i missed a thread somewhere.

are the pzeros as good (or better?) as the ps4s? why did tesla change over to these? ive had a 3/2020 build performance /pup model 3 and selling it to get the 2022 model. i know how the 20 inch ps4s handle and i love the way they handle, so just curious as to the change..

appreciate any info on this.

 

[tm1v2]

It's not because the PZ4 grip or handle better - by all accounts they're worse. I found the OE PZ4 lackluster too but I haven't used the PS4S. I didn't hate the PZ4, they were certainly better than a non-performance tire like the MXM4, but I did want more grip. And with a better tire I got more grip, a bigger improvement than I was expecting.

My only direct comparison on my 2021 M3P so far is 245/45R18 Bridgestone Potenza Sport, which I put on after about 1k miles on the OE wheels+tires. The Potenza Sport completely outclass the PZ4, I swear they grip better wet than the PZ4 did in the dry. And dry vs dry it's no contest, the Potenza Sport can keep holding on where the PZ4 would be squealing and starting to slide. (Ride quality and power steering feel are better too but that's from the taller sidewall + lighter wheels...not from the specific tires.)

I did get the Potenza Sport in a slightly wider size (245 vs 235), but I'm pretty sure the extra grip is mostly from the tire being overall better (e.g. grippier compound), not because of 10mm wider size. That's only 4% wider and subjectively I gained more than that. Efficiency seems to have gone up slightly too. That's probably from the taller sidewalls and lighter wheels, but it means the grippier tires didn't kill my efficiency at least.



So why did Tesla change from the highly regarded PS4S? My guess (totally a guess) is supply chain, as Michelin has clearly been having problems keeping up with demand. I was going to try the PS4S and they were out of stock everywhere in the size I wanted, with no real ETA. And I've seen many other reports here of Michelin tires being out of stock. Obviously Tesla factory supply isn't come from retail stock, but the correlation is there. And Tesla is still buying Michelin tires in general, lots of other Tesla models still come with Michelins including the MYP which recently switched from the PZ4 to Michelin PSAS4 UHP allseasons.

The other theory floating around is the PZ4 could have lower rolling resistance than the PS4S, and Tesla decided it's time to prioritize that over grip for the M3P. That's plausible but it doesn't add up to me, because the uber-heavy 20x9" Uberturbines are not doing the M3P any efficiency favors. If Tesla really cared that much about the M3P's efficiency they'd have done better fitting smaller, lighter wheels and keeping the top-shelf tires. (The Uberturbines sure are purdy though!)

Edit: I believe the 20x9" Uberturbines are even heavier than the previous 20x8.5" M3P wheels. Maybe Tesla was going to have to downrate the M3P's range with the Uberturbines, and they really didn't want to, so they found an alternate performance tire with less rolling resistance to compensate. (But also less grip unfortunately.) That's just a wild guess, and I don't even know if the PZ4 actually have less rolling resistance than the PS4S.

 

[terranx]

Occam's razor suggests Pirelli offered them a better deal.

 

[Destiny1701]

Contras this to the P model Y which changed from Pirelli PZero’s to Michelin Pilot all season 4’s It actually softens the ride for the PY and so many owners are ‘thank god’ as finding winter tires at 255 and 275 was a royal pain.


Perhaps Tesla figured the SUV no longer requires performance summers so give instead to the car…better handling anyway.

 

[NoxGrimstad]

I kinda wonder if the MYP switch to the PS4S was because the stock fitment on the 21" uberturbine has zero tire options, and Michelin had capacity or price reasons that Tesla wanted to take advantage of.

Contrast that with the M3P stock fitment of 235/35/20, which has a variety of options, suggesting to me that Tesla probably just went with the lowest cost max performance summer tire - or at least, a cheaper option than the Michelins.

 

[heavyD]

There can be a variety of reasons for chaining tire brands and it can be based on availability, price, specification changes, etc. Based on the amount of cost cutting that has been going on with these vehicles since they were introduced I would wager the change was likely due to the P-Zero's being cheaper. Kind of a shame as PS4S are probably the best overall performance tires available and vastly superior than P-Zero's.

 

[tm1v2]

I kinda wonder if the MYP switch to the PS4S was because...

@NoxGrimstad MYP has never switched *to* PS4S. Did the MYP originally come with PS4S before switching to PZ4?

 

[oreobbq]

Gotta be the money saved. PS4S handle better, have more grip, and are damn good looking. There's also no OEM pirelli tread life warranty if I recall correctly.

 

[MasterC17]

As others mentioned, fairly certain it came down to rolling resistance and cost.

FWIW wheel weight has virtually no affect on range. Which explains why Tesla continues to use cheap cast, heavy wheels. However, the Uberturbine is more aerodynamic than the previous Performance 20's.

 

[tm1v2]

As others mentioned, fairly certain it came down to rolling resistance and cost.

FWIW wheel weight has virtually no affect on range. Which explains why Tesla continues to use cheap cast, heavy wheels. However, the Uberturbine is more aerodynamic than the previous Performance 20's.

Even in city traffic with lots of stopping and starting? Not that these cars need any more city range, but it factors into EPA testing which in turn factors into many buyer's purchasing decisions. I think.

But I agree the bigger range effect is probably aerodynamics. My 18s are definitely NOT aero, and I doubt these grippy Potenza Sports have any less rolling resistance than the PZ4. My guess is I got a slight range boost because taller sidewall / smaller diameter wheel helped aero. Does that match up with what you know / observed?

(I'll also note that I don't track my efficiency closely, I've just been having a little easier time hitting or getting close to the EPA rated efficiency since my wheel+tire switch. Not a big difference, just a small one, and I've not controlled for weather or such either.)

 

[lbowroom]

Even in city traffic with lots of stopping and starting? Not that these cars need any more city range, but it factors into EPA testing which in turn factors into many buyer's purchasing decisions. I think.

But I agree the bigger range effect is probably aerodynamics. My 18s are definitely NOT aero, and I doubt these grippy Potenza Sports have any less rolling resistance than the PZ4. My guess is I got a slight range boost because taller sidewall / smaller diameter wheel helped aero. Does that match up with what you know / observed?

(I'll also note that I don't track my efficiency closely, I've just been having a little easier time hitting or getting close to the EPA rated efficiency since my wheel+tire switch. Not a big difference, just a small one, and I've not controlled for weather or such either.)

Only on stopping do you not regain all the energy spend getting them rolling in the regen. I think the tread width of the Pirelli 235 is something like 0.8" narrower than the Michelin 235

 

[lUtriaNt]

ahh thanks for the info. the ps4s are uh-may-zing! ill give these a try and drive like i normally do. if i sense a major difference in handling, i will trey and source some ps4s. i dont race on a track so just want the best summer performance tire for this car.

there is a kind of road hazard for the pzeros...

 

[tm1v2]

Occam's razor suggests Pirelli offered them a better deal.

You mean...Pirelli made Tesla an offer they couldn't refuse.

 

[tm1v2]

Now the cynic in me is saying:

1) Start with PS4S to establish the M3P's grip and handling chops in professional reviews.
2) Let the dust and sales settle for a few years. Stop handing out cars for review.
3) Increase profit by switching to a cheaper tire while still capitalizing on all the old reviews from when the M3P came with better tires and a stiffer suspension.

Btw the S still comes with PS4S as its summer tire option, right?

 

[terranx]

Now the cynic in me is saying:

1) Start with PS4S to establish the M3P's grip and handling chops in professional reviews.
2) Let the dust and sales settle for a few years. Stop handing out cars for review.
3) Increase profit by switching to a cheaper tire while still capitalizing on all the old reviews from when the M3P came with better tires and a stiffer suspension.

Honestly, probably not far off. You'll find a similar thing tends to happen with other manufacturers too. Initial reviews and lap times are all made with whatever the newest high end Michelin is. Couple years in, they end up switching to Continental or Pirelli.

 

[MasterC17]

Now the cynic in me is saying:

1) Start with PS4S to establish the M3P's grip and handling chops in professional reviews.
2) Let the dust and sales settle for a few years. Stop handing out cars for review.
3) Increase profit by switching to a cheaper tire while still capitalizing on all the old reviews from when the M3P came with better tires and a stiffer suspension.

Btw the S still comes with PS4S as its summer tire option, right?

I suppose on the flipside, the vast majority of people buying an M3P will never notice the difference, and will appreciate the nominal range increase over the handling characteristics of the PS4S.

The 21" Model S tires are the PS4S. The 19" tires are either the PZ4 or a Continental All-Season.

 

[lUtriaNt]

am i correct in that the pilot 4s AC -- the "AC" means that foam is on the inside and the pilot 4s without the ac means it does not have the foam? im seeing these on discount tire and wanted to verify...

 

[delta0]

PZero is the next class up from the PS4S so are going to get a bit more grip out of them in the summer.

 

[tm1v2]

PZero is the next class up from the PS4S so are going to get a bit more grip out of them in the summer.

@delta0 Which PZero tire are you referring to? Pirelli has many "PZero" tires, ranging from winter tires to dry racetrack tires. The "PZero" branding for Pirelli is like "Pilot Sport" for Michelin or "Potenza" for Bridgestone.

Most of the time in the Model 3 forums when people talk about Pirelli PZero tires, they're referring to the Tesla-spec PZ4 235/35R20 that has been OE on the M3P since 2021. Its 280 TW rating is slightly lower than the 300 TW PS4S, but by all accounts the PS4S has superior performance in all conditions. I haven't used the PS4S myself but I can say firsthand the 300 TW Bridgestone Potenza Sport is also entirely superior to the OE PZ4, dry or wet.

Basically, the PZ4 is a lackluster tire for its category. I didn't hate it, but I wanted more grip, and I got it just by switching tires. (I also switched to lighter, smaller diameter wheels at the same time, which have other benefits, but I think the additional grip I gained is purely from the tire choice.)

Now if you're talking about the PZero Trofeo DOT-legal race tires...I don't think those make any sense to use on the street. Except to drive to the track. Up to you of course!

 

[RefreshedP]

I have 2 sets of summer tires. The OEM Pirelli's on Ubers and ps4s on 20" fast fc04s. Last summer I switched back and forth between the two multiple times. And time and time again, I felt the Pirelli's were the superior tire in both wet, dry cornering and grip. I know it goes against what everyone belives... But if I had to buy another OEM set. It would be the pirellis