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Did we pay more for tax incentive in 2018
- Thread starter JetFalcon
- Start date
I agree. However, typically, a tax-credit is assumed to benefit the consumer -- to allow them to make a larger purchase than they would normally consider. It is unusual to see a seller raise the price of the item to the amount of the credit and then drop the price as the credit decreases. I think it pushes the spirit of the credit beyond the expectation of Congress and the consumer, and was a bit unethical because it was not disclosed. Many thought they were going to receive an actual credit that would benefit them by purchasing sooner.
That is clearly not the case.
Glamisduner
Active Member
Why are you subtracting the tax after the tax incentive?
My car was $73,000 and 79400 after tax and fees and I don't have the Performance Upgrade Package. I now need to pay 2k more for FSD. So adding $5000 (the cost for PUP) and 2000 to 73000 for FSD + 1000 doc fee is 81,000 plus tax for me 7.75% = $87,277.5 which would be the PUP version of mine (The only one currently available to) = $87,277.5 before tax incentive
$87277.5 -$5000 for FUSC, $7500 for Tax incentive = $74,777.5 (after federal tax credit)
Wait time from intial deposit of $1000 to purchase 1 year 4 months. Wait time from order to car 4 months.
New car configured exactly the same early 2019:
*63,000? (how much did the performance drop after the latest announcement 2k?) $68,000 (includes EAP cost but FSD is free) + dest/doc fee $1500 multiplied by (1.0775) + government fees of 748.00 = $75,634.25 before tax incentive 75634.25 - $3750 = $71884.25 (after federal tax credit)
Now I also have a larger amount on my loan since I had to wait for the incentives and refunds from tesla. Which BTW, Tesla did not want to give to P3D- owners.
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I'm not. I added the regular (no-incentive) prices, and then subtracted the tax credit. I ignored state taxes. Not sure what you are talking about.
For your own case, instead of adopting my clear format for showing and comparing prices and you added a bunch of distracting commentary and state tax? and it's impossible to follow -- at least while giving it the attention it deserves.
What I can discern from the jumble of words and numbers is that, like me, the 2019 car is a little (<$3k) cheaper than the mid(?) 2018 car after decreased tax credit . $74.7 down to $71.8.
That's consistent with what I described. . . . (shrug)
SunCharged
Member
Glamisduner
Active Member
Well I got $15,000 back including my state tax credit, 7.75% was just an example but it adds up when your talking about an $80,000 car. You don't get the tax and interest you pay back on incentives and refunds, such as the $15,000. I'd rather have $15,000 cheaper car and $15,000 less on my loan than a bunch of incentives I have to wait different amounts of time for.
I'd rather be using my awesome car (and laptop and tv) sooner rather than have to wait different amounts of time for cheaper versions of the same car (and laptop and tv).
Glamisduner
Active Member
That's the frustrating part though, my car was in the shop for almost 2 months since purchase, so it's been more inconvenient to keep getting rentals etc, as I watch the price drop. In fact it sent in for delivery repairs just after the huge price drop on PUP. I would have opted for the PUP package, but I was just exceeding the max I was willing and to spend and pay monthly with P3D- already.
If only I could have wait 10 more days, or better yet, bought in January and saved money, gotten the PUP, and free EAP, defect free car, since it was already day before thanksgiving when it came back from the body shop (It would return to service another 5 or 6 times after that to fix all the issues that were created when fixing delivery issues).
They literally just fixed my door panel rattles finally on friday finally, but I still need to go back to have another panel repaired where it was pried with a screwdriver, and I have another appointment for seat motor (when parts become available) and another for the tin noise in the rear.
And I paid more for this experience.
If only I had bought a few thousand shares of TSLA when it was at $17. But I didn't... bummer!
Glamisduner
Active Member
I am annoyed about the whole EAP + FSD piece but for me the cost comes out to be about the same:
2018 Pricing (June):
LR + PUP: $49,000
Tires: $1,000
Red Paint: $1,500
Registration: $254.13
Doc Fees: $1,000
EAP: $5,000
Tax: $4,025
Federal Credit: $7,500
TOTAL: $61,779.13
OUT OF POCKET: $54,279.13
2019 Pricing:
LR + PUP: $43,000
Tires: $1,000
Red Paint: $2,500
Registration: $254.13
Doc Fees: $1,200
EAP: $5,000
Tax: $3,724
Federal Credit: $3,750
TOTAL: $57,178.13
OUT OF POCKET: $53,428.13
Now, if I add about $100 per year for 8 years for premium internet it comes out to be $54,228.13 which is right in line with what I paid in 2018
Having said that I know that folks in June got somewhat lucky. Folks in the second half of the year took more of a hit
2018 Pricing (June):
LR + PUP: $49,000
Tires: $1,000
Red Paint: $1,500
Registration: $254.13
Doc Fees: $1,000
EAP: $5,000
Tax: $4,025
Federal Credit: $7,500
TOTAL: $61,779.13
OUT OF POCKET: $54,279.13
2019 Pricing:
LR + PUP: $43,000
Tires: $1,000
Red Paint: $2,500
Registration: $254.13
Doc Fees: $1,200
EAP: $5,000
Tax: $3,724
Federal Credit: $3,750
TOTAL: $57,178.13
OUT OF POCKET: $53,428.13
Now, if I add about $100 per year for 8 years for premium internet it comes out to be $54,228.13 which is right in line with what I paid in 2018
Having said that I know that folks in June got somewhat lucky. Folks in the second half of the year took more of a hit
I've been driving the crap out of my worm.
Yes me too. Just passed 6k miles today since Nov delivery. But when I look at my loan balance and see its MORE than the cost of the same car today, it feels a little like eating a worm sammich.
SammichLover
Banned
SammichLover
Banned
Yeah, I got my other worm in 2017.
Well my solar worm is on the way from the IRS this year. My refund is going to be kinda obscene this year.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
You can start getting your tax credit right away by adjusting your tax withholding to be a lower amount. Easy and immediate.Have you got your $7500 from the IRS, yet?
Or if you pay estimated taxes, pay less.
Anyone who waits for refund time for their tax credit gave an interest free loan to the govt and exhibited poor planning.
SunCharged
Member
You’re assuming that we could know with 100% certainty we would receive our cars in 2018 after waiting over two years.
Yes we paid more and got Fcuked over backwards with FSD TOO! F Tesla!
When the ordering was available there was good indication as to when it would be delivered, including an assurance that if it wasn't made in time for the full tax credit the price would be adjusted. But they mostly made their year-end deliveries as scheduled.
And anyway ff you buy the car early in the year, then you have the entire rest of the year to adjust your withholdings. If you buy the car later in the year, then you have just the remaining period of the year to adjust your withholdings -- or longer if you pay estimated taxes into the next year.
but you aren't out the money paid ofr the car until the end of the year too and if you end up with a big refund then you can get that shortly after filing your taxes.
It isn't a big time value of money. But people who like to complain and whine will make a bigger deal about it -- but it simply is not a big dollar value. But really this is a tale of people who probably shouldn't have bought a Tesla anyway. They just can't get used to trade offs for innovation and fast-acting. They would probably be better off going to cadillac dealer in person and having their hand held more.
This may be a good side effect of the online only sales model -- buyers who have different priorities and need less hand-holding will be comfortable with an online process whereas more problematic buyers will not. And Tesla will be better off without them.
