Did you request utility permission before installing L2 charger?

[saiyan]

So I've been hearing stories of how people just installed their L2 chargers without notifying utilities, or permits, etc.

I figure I'll do it by the book, and was notified I'm not allowed to plug in my L2 charger. Heck, I have an electric dryer outlet at 30A pre-existing and I'm not even allowed to use it! PG&E says my neighborhood transformer is over capacity, and an upgrade can take up to a year!

Doesn't seem very fair that I can't even use an existing circuit.

 

[Pricedm]

I live in Denver, CO, where relatively easy to test for a "homeowner" permit. I didn't get a permit, but did everything by code-- 4AWG hots and 6 (maybe 8 AWG) ground in PVC conduit on my 60a circuit. Home has "undersized" 150a. I don't run AC, clothes dryer, and charge at the same time.

I have "average" electrical DIY skills, got lots of info on best-practices for safety, and did the work myself. 60a circuit is on main panel without disconnect, so top half of service panel was hot during the install. Taking routine caution/ safety practices, it was easy.

Question-- would your electric provider apply this same standard to someone replacing a gas stove/clothes dryer with electric?

Good luck! Let us know what you end up doing.

 

[Ampster]

Permits are important but I have never heard of anyone being required to get permission from a utility in order to consume more power. Unless one is going to install 24kW electric kiln I think, as pointed out above anything like a 30 Amp dryer or a L2 charging station is a reasonable load. The only issue might be if your local jurisdiction says you main panel is not large enough, then you might need an upgrade. Typically a L2 charging station will be used at night when other loads are idle. There are also work around with load sharing devices that can reduce that issue.

 

[h2ofun]

So I've been hearing stories of how people just installed their L2 chargers without notifying utilities, or permits, etc.

I figure I'll do it by the book, and was notified I'm not allowed to plug in my L2 charger. Heck, I have an electric dryer outlet at 30A pre-existing and I'm not even allowed to use it! PG&E says my neighborhood transformer is over capacity, and an upgrade can take up to a year!

Doesn't seem very fair that I can't even use an existing circuit.

You asked PGE to use a pre-existing 30A for a dryer? I traded my propane for electric dryer, none of PGE's business.

I am trying to put in some L2 charges also. Its the county code I want to understand. None of PGE's business here either

 

[miimura]

Many jurisdictions will notify the utility of new loads after the permit is signed off as complete. However, if you are using an existing electric dryer circuit for EV charging, you're not even adding a new circuit. I don't see how anyone (permit authority or utility) has a basis to deny your request.

 

[Tronguy]

I'm in NJ. And I spent some time figuring out just what code is. In no particular order:

• Whether one needs a building/electrical inspector to put in a 60A (or what-have-your) circuit depends upon the state and the locality. Everybody has rules. Localities, with reason, sometimes make the rules stricter.
• Adding an outlet to an existing circuit rarely requires an electrical inspection or plans handed to the town's building office. So, you're in the basement, there's an existing 15A, 120 VAC circuit, you can see the wires, and you want to add a box/outlet so you can power your computer desk? Knock yourself out. Repairs: Even more so.
• When stuff gets heavy duty, the general rule is the Town Wants To Get Involved. In general, the purpose of the Town Getting Involved is to keep the homeowner from (so long as we're speaking electrical, here) from either immolating themselves or from some electrician, possibly unlicensed, but, like all people, prone to error, immolating the homeowner later. I, personally, have been involved in a kitchen re-do. You would not believe the hacked-together, danger to life-and-limb, not bolted to the wall, poor or non-existent grounding we found (had a neighbor, master electrician, doing the work: I was his helper) buried behind the kitchen cabinets and walls. It wasn't just that that house had been built some 30 years previous: the original electricians' work had been good for the time, but the add-on stuff.. shudder. I mean, we had kids in that house. (It was fun when the electrical inspector came by to check the rough-in work, though. He was carefully looking at all the new stuff and chatting, and asked, "Who's doing this work, anyway?" I mentioned the name of the neighbor. The guy stood up, fixed me with a glare, stated, "Then why the heck are you people wasting my time anyway? Why didn't you say so in the first place!", scribbled on the permit, put on his hat, and left, harrumphing all the way. I guess certain local electricians get a rep, of the Good Kind, sometimes.)
• So, when the Tesla Wall Connector was planned, knowing that this was a bit past my abilities, I double checked the need for a building permit for the socket. Turns out: The State of New Jersey says, "No plans required. But an inspection is required, after the fact. And an application must be filed before." Went down to the Town's building office, told them what I was about, filled out a form, gave them (I think) around $50, and took paperwork back to the house. The electricians came down, did their work, and fired it all up; I gave the town a call, a few days later a guy came by, eyeballed it all, and scribbled on the paper, done.
• The real fun time with the inspectors was when the Solar Panel system on the roof went in. Needed electrical (obvious), structural (they're putting lag bolts through the roof and what-all), and plumbing (they moved plumbing vent pipes around). As it happens, this was one of the first houses in the municipality to get solar; the guys who did the work knew what they were doing, and I'm enough of a EE to understand, thoroughly, what they had done. It was fun teaching the electrical building inspector the ins and outs of inverters, various shut-off switches, and breakers. In this case, plans were submitted ahead of time.

My opinion: Check the building codes for San Francisco. (That wasn't hard to find..) The web page is mostly about getting permits; but the actual building codes usually have a section somewhere listing what needs a permit and what doesn't. My general understanding is that anything a contractor can do, a homeowner can do, too, so long as they follow the regulations and, if the building code calls for it, get inspected.

An example of this: So, got this Solar Panel system. The Public Utilities Commission changed the rules: If one wants the rebates from generating power (which those of us in NJ can do), then one has to have a utility-grade meter (means: accurate, since there's money involved) in line with the inverter output. I checked with local electricians: They wanted a thousand or two for the job, which was roughly how much I was getting a year on those rebates. So, looked into the details. First, New York City, bless their souls, has an exhaustive list of all the meters Known To Man that are allowed to be installed for electrical use. Some of those meters are impressive (like the kind, say, used to meter a Supercharger installation, or the power needs for a Monster Factory); others are the glass-bubble type stuck on the side of a house. Turns out that landlords often want to have cheapie meters that they can attach to each renter in an apartment building, with each renter having a sub-panel in the apartment that takes in 220 VAC. So, about six years ago, ordered a $150 special that had the right power range and the two small toroids that get slid over each leg of the hots from the inverter to the house meter. Checked with the city: Design and Inspection Permit, please. Bought that, ran down to Home Depot for the plastic conduit, mounted the meter above the small breaker box which fused the two inverters I've got, very carefully disconnected and isolated everything, double checking with a meter as I went, opened up the breaker panel, undid wires, slid toroids into position, routed conduit, hooked up power for the meter, double-checked everything, and very carefully turned it all back on again. Hey, it worked!
Called the city. The guy came down a few days later. Wasn't the same guy who inspected the original solar panel system, but got the same reaction, draw dropped and intense curiosity. Showed him my work, he was happy, scribbled, and was on his way.
So, cost of materials: Maybe $250. My time: a few hours doing the research, reading manufacturers' data sheets, and about an hour of actually installing it all at a snail's crawl. (Real electricians are much faster.) It helps that I know a crimping tool from a hole in the wall.
And, come the day this place gets sold, no funny questions about whether the house is up to code or not: The paperwork is handy.

 

[saiyan]

Thanks for a good read Tronguy.

Like you said, I think every municipality is different. I certainly don't want to immolate myself :-D . My licensed electrician was originally going to run 6AWG through conduit to a 60A breaker.

I'm going to respect the utility wishes by not adding any new load via new breaker/circuits. But I think I should be able to use my existing 30A dryer breaker that came with the home (and run my charger at 16A to be extra safe), and wait out the transformer upgrade. The power draw would be 3.8kw and I don't have any other high draw electrical devices (everything is gas).

 

[Electrph]

i installed level 2 tesla charger myself w/ supervision from electrician relative .. had local county inspect / approve (this was mostly my peace of mind / homeowners insurance) .. only way i can see utiltiy caring is if your L2 (as stated above) puts you over total panel capacity .. even then wouldn't your main breaker just open and prevent you from drawing "too much" of your share from the transformer? .. not recommending anyone overload their panel of course

 

[ucmndd]

Yeah I’m gonna go with PGE can suck it on this one. It’s their job to provide your neighborhood with adequate capacity. That’s what you pay them for.

I’ve never heard of an AHJ notifying the utility for any behind the meter circuit additions, nor the utility having any say in what you do back there. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but I also don’t see how the utility would have the authority to say no after the fact. You pay the utility for a 100/200/whatever amp service and how you use/distribute it would seem to be completely up to you.

 

[slcasner]

I figure I'll do it by the book, and was notified I'm not allowed to plug in my L2 charger. Heck, I have an electric dryer outlet at 30A pre-existing and I'm not even allowed to use it! PG&E says my neighborhood transformer is over capacity, and an upgrade can take up to a year!

Doesn't seem very fair that I can't even use an existing circuit.

I hate to defend PG&E, but their statement has some merit. There is a big difference between the load that an electric dryer would draw through that 30A outlet and the load that your L2 charger could impose. It could be 24A continuously for several hours. If there are multiple homes with EVs on the same transformer that might all be charging at midnight, you could cook the transformer. I've done it, twice.

Once when a group of us met at a friend's house in Napa on a hot day. The home had connections for two EVs to charge, plus A/C going full blast. Then some appetizers went into the broiler. Not long after everything went dark, but no breakers on the home panel had tripped. The transformer had overheated and popped its protection circuit.

The second time was in 2010 when five of us with Roadsters took a drive to Yosemite with a stay at an RV campground. We had three or four cars charging during an afternoon with moderate temperature, but by 9pm we had cooked the main transformer feeding the campground. Even though the campground had about 25 spaces where all the RVs could be running their A/C on a hot summer day, the different load pattern of our EV chargers caused too much heat to build up in the transformer.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

So I've been hearing stories of how people just installed their L2 chargers without notifying utilities, or permits, etc.

I figure I'll do it by the book, and was notified I'm not allowed to plug in my L2 charger. Heck, I have an electric dryer outlet at 30A pre-existing and I'm not even allowed to use it! PG&E says my neighborhood transformer is over capacity, and an upgrade can take up to a year!

Doesn't seem very fair that I can't even use an existing circuit.

That’s pretty BS. I’d say plug it in, you let it charge, and if the transformer blows, they will replace it much quicker than in a year. They are not motivated to replace the transformer until there is a failure.

 

[Lloyd]

What you do on your side of the meter is your business and NOT PGE! They permitted you for the amount on your meter 100 or 200A and you pay for that capacity. Use it as you see fit. Let PGE catch up. They oversubscribed the capacity in your neighborhood.

 

[Tronguy]

I hate to defend PG&E, but their statement has some merit. There is a big difference between the load that an electric dryer would draw through that 30A outlet and the load that your L2 charger could impose. It could be 24A continuously for several hours. If there are multiple homes with EVs on the same transformer that might all be charging at midnight, you could cook the transformer. I've done it, twice.

Once when a group of us met at a friend's house in Napa on a hot day. The home had connections for two EVs to charge, plus A/C going full blast. Then some appetizers went into the broiler. Not long after everything went dark, but no breakers on the home panel had tripped. The transformer had overheated and popped its protection circuit.

The second time was in 2010 when five of us with Roadsters took a drive to Yosemite with a stay at an RV campground. We had three or four cars charging during an afternoon with moderate temperature, but by 9pm we had cooked the main transformer feeding the campground. Even though the campground had about 25 spaces where all the RVs could be running their A/C on a hot summer day, the different load pattern of our EV chargers caused too much heat to build up in the transformer.

OK. First, I don't live in CA, so I don't have a decent feel for how the Public Utilities Commission or equivalent runs things out there.
Second: I happen to work in Telecom. Not on the, "Run the stuff and take in money from subscribers" end, but rather the, "Build it and They Will Come" end.
There is this thing: Nobody designs a POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service, as in twisted wire pairs, 48V, and ringers that really ring) network so that if every subscriber picks up the handset, everybody gets dial tone. Admittedly, everything is TCP/IP based these days and everybody's streaming videos all the time, so stuff has changed. But, still: I'd imagine even a VOIP server is going to choke and die (or at least, not respond to new requests) if every single subscriber tries to dial a number at the same time.
The reason: The Telcos would have to spend serious money on hardware, money on electricity to run that hardware, and the people ending up paying for all that would be the Public. And, while waiting for that Event where Everybody Picks Up Their Phones At The Same Time, all that gear would be mainly sitting idle. And it wouldn't be just the phones - sizing the fiber optic lines and such for that Event would mean buying, burying, and maintaining all the cross-country infrastructure that would make handling the Event possible.
So, this is where the FCC and the Public Utility Commissions do studies and set up a Level of Service that gets published and, presumably, the Public Is Happy With, and doesn't have to pay an arm and a leg for. (Did a quick search, found this.)
So, let's talk about Power. There are Similarities. Yup, one can have a thousands homes in a nifty subdivision all of which have 200A service. Throwing in the NEC requirement that Thou Shalt Not Draw More than 80% of Max Load, that means that all those home could, theoretically, pull down 160A at 240VAC, or about 38.4 kW. Multiply that by a thousand homes and we're talking 38.4 MW. What do all you want to bet that the network isn't sized for that kind of power?
And I'd argue that this isn't some kind of mistake by the power company. They likely have worked with the PUC, which, mind you, represents the Public, to come up with similar levels of service re Overload that doesn't break the Public's Bank.
So, just like with telecom and TCP/IP, things have Changed on the Demand side. With everybody and their brother-in-laws buying electric cars and charging same for Hours, the Utilities and the PUC may have been caught out. Yeah, cheap electricity is a desirable goal, and that means (to some extent) limiting the money going into infrastructure to reasonable values, but, if people want electric cars, Stuff Has To Change. Unless one wants to have rotating blackouts.
Now, I've heard of Serious Evil in California. I've heard that NIMBY is Really Strong, so attempting to get a new high-tension line in, base load generation getting built, or indeed, building infrastructure of any type has been, shall we say, curtailed by mobs of NIMBY types. Resulting in some of the highest electric costs in the nation. (We got our own NIMBYs in NJ, thank you, but it hasn't seemed to be at the level of virulence that living on the Left Coast seems to engender.) And, of course, there's always regulatory capture, where short-sighted business critters try to cut costs by lobbying the PUC. (Answer: Vote the B**** Out, and get the PUC changed.. but I don't know the situation with that in CA.)
And sometimes it's just the company and the corporate culture. We got two big utilities out this way (and the usual collection of dwarfs), PSE&G and JCP&L. JCP&L is run by a bunch of greedheads based in Ohio, somewhere, and, you can bet if a hurricane comes through, it'll be JCP&L that will be Surprised By This Oh-So-Unusual-Event and will be weeks getting the last customer back on line.
PSE&G may have its foibles, but, when Disaster Strikes, They Are Ready And Out There, Working. Heck, when Solar first showed up, it was PSE&G out there handing out low-cost loans, payable in SRECs, for people to install solar systems with. The idea being that PSE&G was dead tired of fighting NIMBYs all over while trying to site peaker plants for the inevitable air conditioning overload events, and they figured that every house that had solar was not just one less load on the network, but it also powered up a couple of the neighbors as well. Mind you, PSE&G didn't have to get forced into this - they did that on their own.
Their shtick's been so good that New York.. Yeah, that state, across the Hudson from here.. dismantled the Long Island Power Authority and begged PSE&G to come and take the place over. Which (and I never thought I'd be saying this about a Power Utility) PSE&G did, with good will. By all reports the Long Islanders are much happier now.
So, going back on track: Any of you out there going to dig into Service Levels for the Utilities? And find out what they've actually agreed to do, with the force of (administrative) law behind it? How about writing a letter to the PUC? (Around here, that gets utilities excited and start running around like chickens with their heads cut off. But we have a PUC that kinda works.)

Oh, yeah. One last thing. Regarding NIMBYs and their ilk running amok, I'm curious. I heard a report somewhere that, if a California homeowner with Solar on the roof generated more power than they used, the utility had to pay the homeowner retail rates for the electricity so generated. Which, if true, is bat-*** nuts. Utilities buy their electric energy wholesale, sell it retail, and the difference pays for infrastructure, salaries, and the occasional office party. Not to mention bond holders. Did California really set it up so that consumers got paid retail rates for excess energy?

 

[Ampster]

Did California really set it up so that consumers got paid retail rates for excess energy?

Yes that is true and has been for at lease ten years. There have been charges added such as Non Bypassable Charges so someone like me pays a small sum for using the grid as a battery. That kind of Net Energy Metering agreement exists in a number of states and has worked to encourage the growth of distributed energy on rooftops. That full retail on excess only applies to the excess during each month as a credit to offset consumption and is not paid to the until the annual True Up. The cumulative excess at the end of the year True Up is paid at wholesale. It is not a one way street since the result of the growth of rooftop solar has actually reduced the aggregate demand which benefits the grid. However if you research the Duck Curve there is a rapid increase in demand when the sun goes down. That has caused some stress, not so much on the grid but on the lack of generating capacity that can ramp up as quickly as needed. It is not a perfect system.

 

[Tronguy]

Yes that is true and has been for at lease ten years. There have been charges added such as Non Bypassable Charges so someone like me pays a small sum for using the grid as a battery. That kind of Net Energy Metering agreement exists in a number of states and has worked to encourage the growth of distributed energy on rooftops. That full retail on excess only applies to the excess during each month as a credit to offset consumption and is not paid to the until the annual True Up. The cumulative excess at the end of the year True Up is paid at wholesale. It is not a one way street since the result of the growth of rooftop solar has actually reduced the aggregate demand which benefits the grid. However if you research the Duck Curve there is a rapid increase in demand when the sun goes down. That has caused some stress, not so much on the grid but on the lack of generating capacity that can ramp up as quickly as needed. It is not a perfect system.

Wow. Weird. I guess each state has its own method of encouraging solar adoption. We here in NJ have these things called, "SRECs", Solar Renewable Energy Credits, put in by Government Fiat. The power utilities have a slowly, over the years, increasing percentage of power required to be made by "green" methods. Solar, Wind, Water, etc. For every MW-hr they miss that target, they have to pay the State something called a SICL payment, currently around $220 or so. The SICL payment is set by fiat and decreases, slowly, year on year.
Or, Instead! The utility can hand the State an SREC instead of the SICL payment. Anybody who installs solar gets an SREC for each MW-hr of energy they generate for fifteen years after the install date. (Note: This isn't generate, as in, "delivered to the grid", it's generate, as in, "the solar panels made that much."). There's a cottage industry of aggregators who buy up SRECs from individuals, then sell to the utilities for a slight mark-up. Ceiling, of course, is the SICL payment (you'll never get that much). When there's an oversupply, offered prices drop. When it's tight in the winter time, prices rise a bit. The utilities get to play, too, which is why nearly every blame light pole around here has a panel on it.
So, on the one hand, ratepayers are paying hard cash so that people with solar get their SREC money. On the other hand.. The utilities aren't putting in peaker plants for extra hot days since there's all that solar energy out there on hot days.
My connection fee (i.e., using the utility as a battery backup) is $5.00 a month; cost of electricity, if the monthly running total goes negative, is around $.13/kW-hr, which I understand isn't bad.
Whole business was set up by a State Assembly representative who, as it turned out, was a Power Engineer. He surveyed states far and wide and noted the collapses of Pennsylvania's and Ohio's SREC programs and was bound and determined that it Wouldn't Happen Here. The legislature passed it in near lock-step, somehow knowing a good thing when they saw it. It worked pretty well until Christie and the Koch brothers packed the PUC with anti-green sycophants. That got turned around when a bunch of solar installers (big market, here in NJ) told Christie that his actions were going to kill solar in the state; and, while that might make the Kochs deliriously happy, the installers were going to portray Christie as a job-killer on a mass level, something no Republican wants to be accused of. (At least, back then.) Christie then, to his credit, fixed the mess he had made with some assistance from the legislature. Since then, with the decreasing cost of solar, there's been some tweaks, but no freak-outs on any hand. And it's common to see solar installer trucks flying by on the Garden State parkway.
And, heck, even the Koch's are getting into renewable energy these days.

 

[wwu123]

Wow. Weird. I guess each state has its own method of encouraging solar adoption. We here in NJ have these things called, "SRECs", Solar Renewable Energy Credits, put in by Government Fiat. The power utilities have a slowly, over the years, increasing percentage of power required to be made by "green" methods. Solar, Wind, Water, etc. For every MW-hr they miss that target, they have to pay the State something called a SICL payment, currently around $220 or so. The SICL payment is set by fiat and decreases, slowly, year on year.
Or, Instead! The utility can hand the State an SREC instead of the SICL payment. Anybody who installs solar gets an SREC for each MW-hr of energy they generate for fifteen years after the install date. (Note: This isn't generate, as in, "delivered to the grid", it's generate, as in, "the solar panels made that much."). There's a cottage industry of aggregators who buy up SRECs from individuals, then sell to the utilities for a slight mark-up. Ceiling, of course, is the SICL payment (you'll never get that much). When there's an oversupply, offered prices drop. When it's tight in the winter time, prices rise a bit. The utilities get to play, too, which is why nearly every blame light pole around here has a panel on it.
So, on the one hand, ratepayers are paying hard cash so that people with solar get their SREC money. On the other hand.. The utilities aren't putting in peaker plants for extra hot days since there's all that solar energy out there on hot days.
My connection fee (i.e., using the utility as a battery backup) is $5.00 a month; cost of electricity, if the monthly running total goes negative, is around $.13/kW-hr, which I understand isn't bad.
Whole business was set up by a State Assembly representative who, as it turned out, was a Power Engineer. He surveyed states far and wide and noted the collapses of Pennsylvania's and Ohio's SREC programs and was bound and determined that it Wouldn't Happen Here. The legislature passed it in near lock-step, somehow knowing a good thing when they saw it. It worked pretty well until Christie and the Koch brothers packed the PUC with anti-green sycophants. That got turned around when a bunch of solar installers (big market, here in NJ) told Christie that his actions were going to kill solar in the state; and, while that might make the Kochs deliriously happy, the installers were going to portray Christie as a job-killer on a mass level, something no Republican wants to be accused of. (At least, back then.) Christie then, to his credit, fixed the mess he had made with some assistance from the legislature. Since then, with the decreasing cost of solar, there's been some tweaks, but no freak-outs on any hand. And it's common to see solar installer trucks flying by on the Garden State parkway.
And, heck, even the Koch's are getting into renewable energy these days.

Thanks for the detailed explanation of SREC's and how they work! I've heard of such things from states back east, and that homeowners got them for installed solar, but didn't know where that money came from and how it was used.

But are you sure New Jersey doesn't have net-metering on top of SREC's? What I search on the web suggests New Jersey solar owners get both. It suggests New Jersey has full-retail net metering, which is the same as California's NEM 1.0 now only for grandfathered owners, so better than current NEM 2.0. The only energy you send that you don't get full-retail would be at the end of the 12-month true up, if you've generated more than you consumed, the excess only gets some wholesale rate.
EDIT: Oh, I think you were only talking about retail for the excess energy at true-up - I don't think most Californian's have had that for a long time, with some exceptions (some of the CCA's in just the few years they've been around, but they're taking it away now too).

Thanks also for the pro explanation of the shared capacities of the grid - I guess in California we've seen that on hot summer days, not everyone can run their 5-ton AC for hours at a time either, that's getting pretty close to the scenario of everyone charging at the same time. At least with car charging, not everyone is charging every night at the same time - that's the misconception just because most people plug in their EV every night, that somehow it's charging all night. If one's commute is only 20 miles daily, that's 5 kwh or maybe an hour of charging, that not everyone's going to be doing at the same time.

 

[Tronguy]

Thanks for the detailed explanation of SREC's and how they work! I've heard of such things from states back east, and that homeowners got them for installed solar, but didn't know where that money came from and how it was used.

But are you sure New Jersey doesn't have net-metering on top of SREC's? What I search on the web suggests New Jersey solar owners get both. It suggests New Jersey has full-retail net metering, which is the same as California's NEM 1.0 now only for grandfathered owners, so better than current NEM 2.0. The only energy you send that you don't get full-retail would be at the end of the 12-month true up, if you've generated more than you consumed, the excess only gets some wholesale rate.
EDIT: Oh, I think you were only talking about retail for the excess energy at true-up - I don't think most Californian's have had that for a long time, with some exceptions (some of the CCA's in just the few years they've been around, but they're taking it away now too).

Thanks also for the pro explanation of the shared capacities of the grid - I guess in California we've seen that on hot summer days, not everyone can run their 5-ton AC for hours at a time either, that's getting pretty close to the scenario of everyone charging at the same time. At least with car charging, not everyone is charging every night at the same time - that's the misconception just because most people plug in their EV every night, that somehow it's charging all night. If one's commute is only 20 miles daily, that's 5 kwh or maybe an hour of charging, that not everyone's going to be doing at the same time.

Those of us who installed SRECs early in all this got them for 15 years; about 5 years ago, that dropped to 10; and now they've changed to something called a TREC (not SREC, for some reason) which pays a fixed amount (not variable) per MW-hr. Not sure about the expiration of the TRECs, but it's probably 10 years or less.
But, TREC or SREC, these are government mandated subsidies to pay help pay off the cost of solar installation. Back when I first got involved, SRECs were going for around $800 a pop (!), but a 9 kW system, good for 10 MW-hr of energy per year, cost $72k. Now the cost is down around $20k (checked at a home show a few weeks ago).
The other cash flow item was the avoidance of paying for electricity. If memory serves, back when getting started with all this, by not paying for electricity one would save around $2200/year. So, on that $72k system (well, $42k after federal tax rebates and, at the time, a State Grant) would be paid off in ($42k/(2k+8k)) = 4.2 years. Of course, due to Christie's and the Koch's machinations, they managed to drop SRECs down to $150-$300 after a couple of years until the installers got to Christie, and the payout date for my system went to about 6 years as a result. Currently, I'm just minting money with the SRECs for the next couple of years, at which point I'll stop getting them.
Nowadays, things are a lot more stable. Cost of electricity for a new buyer, same size house as mine would be around $3500/year (guessing), and with the TRECs around $120 or so, that'd be around $1200 in TREC subsidy. Given that the system would be $20k, payback would be (20k/(3500+1200) ) =4.25 years, most of that being paid off by the electrical avoidance. There are rumors if solar costs drop more, the state might just drop the whole SREC/TREC business as not being worth it: 5 year cash-flow-positive payback ain't half bad.
We get Net Metering the moment one attaches a grid-tied system to the power net, whether or not the local solar panel system has batteries or not. There's an interesting little bit about the whole SREC/TREC program: One is not supposed to put more energy generation, over a year's time, on the roof than the house actually uses. There's a state-mandated formula for this, but it has a bit of an error: If one follows the formula, one ends up generating, over a year's time, more than one uses. Which means that, if one plays one's cards right about the Net Metering Date, a typical homeowner will end up with a bit of a surplus at the Net Metering Date, seeing as the surplus generated over the summer will carry one through the winter months, just.
The reasoning behind this general limit is to Not Kill The Utility Companies, since they provide the positive service of providing base load for night time and cloudy days. It also prevents maniacal solar field builders from swamping the market with too many SRECs. (This, by the by, is what killed SRECs in Pennsylvania and Ohio: SRECs in those states were hovering around $5 each.) In fact, the PUC in NJ was supposed to prevent that kind of construction from wrecking the SREC market; Christie and the Kochs said, "Let the floodgates open!", and a bunch of these things were being built or planned to be built, until the local solar house installers realized that their market was about to crash, and then did a concerted lobbying push on Christie to Stop That. At which point Christie Stopped That, got the legislature to shore up the loose ends (there are still lawsuits pending from disappointed Wall Street types), and things returned back to normal.
The only other fun thing in all of this is Powerwalls. With Net Metering, which pretty much zeroes out the cost of electricity over a year, about the only economic advantage of having a Powerwall is, if one completely disconnects from the grid, is that $5/month connection charge will go away. That's not much in terms of paying off a $7500-$15000 system (before installation). I guess that, if one is going to pay for a gas-fired or natural-gas fired emergency generator, a Powerwall is better. But we only get the kind of storms (Hurricanes and Nor-Easters) through here that do that kind of damage maybe once every 5 to 10 years, if that. And I live in PSE&G territory, where they take power restoration seriously. (You in CA got earthquakes: Each to their own.)
Where I imagine Powerwalls would come into their own is in places with highly inflated electrical prices, a desire to Stick With Carbon, and no solar incentives. In which case putting in a large solar panel & powerwall system, then disconnecting from the grid, might be in order.

 

[thimel]

I will simply answer the OP’s question. Yes, in addition to getting a permit from the city, I informed PG&E as I had heard you were supposed to do. They gave me no trouble.

 

[yblaser]

I think the only thing PG&E could deny is putting you on an EV rate plan.

 

[slcasner]

That’s pretty BS. I’d say plug it in, you let it charge, and if the transformer blows, they will replace it much quicker than in a year. They are not motivated to replace the transformer until there is a failure.

You're right. In both of the instances where I participated in causing a transformer to overheat and fail, PG&E came out promptly to replace the transformer. At the RV campground near Yosemite this required traveling some distance from the nearest service yard and working in the middle of the night (after the failure at 9pm the transformer was replaced by 3am).