Different Tesla Chargers in North America and Europe

[youyouxue]

I'm in England, and I really wanted to bring my California Tesla P85 over here by boat. I was notified by someone that the Tesla chargers in the UK are different than the ones North America. Yes, I mean the ones you find at Tesla Superchargers and the ones included with your charging kit.

The ones here in Europe (UK, Netherlands, Norway, etc.) have lots more prongs, and are basically 2x bigger than the US ones, which if I can remember correctly, have three prongs on top, and one on the bottom.

IMAGE 1 (EUROPEAN PLUG): http://fr.chargemap.com/img/upload/chargepoints/large/tesla-supercharger-regensburg_14974.JPG
IMAGE 2 (EUROPEAN PLUG): http://www.danzei.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Tesla_Supercharger_Stecker_mit_Knopf.jpg
IMAGE 3 (EUROPEAN PLUG): http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/125.jpg

IMAGE 4 (AMERICAN PLUG): http://d3z1rkrtcvm2b.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Filling.png
IMAGE 5 (AMERICAN PLUG): http://michael.palm-motors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/20120923-142007.jpg

I find this quite ridiculous because the electricity being put out by the Superchargers across two continents are exactly the same, yet there seems to be a need to change the plug. Tesla has not been very cooperative in providing me with a solution to charge my car, if I were to bring it overseas.

Is this to prevent customers from shipping their cars overseas? Is this to prevent Americans from damaging the European Superchargers? It doesn't quite make sense.

Has anyone else had this experience or similar concern?

 

[goneskiian]

There's lots of info on the what and why of this if you'd bother doing some searching. Here, I found this on page 2 of this very sub forum.

Are the european and american superchargers different? Why?

Bottom line is that the residential electrical grid is different on each continent.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Tesla is not alone, practically every EV will have a J1772 in the US/Japan and the Type 2 connector in Europe (I know some cars were released in Europe with J1772 though, but you run into the same issue).

 

[arg]

There's lots of other issues besides the charging connector - due to regulatory requirements, there's different airbag configurations, rear fog light, turn signal colours etc.

If you are just thinking of bringing the car over here temporarily, you will easily be able to charge it (just not at superchargers).

If you are thinking of importing it permanently, it's probably going to be a lot of trouble/cost to get it registered, it's left-hand-drive when you want RHD for the UK, and when you eventually come to sell it you won't get a good price. You almost certainly save money by selling your US P85 and buying another one over here.

 

[jkirkebo]

Tesla is not alone, practically every EV will have a J1772 in the US/Japan and the Type 2 connector in Europe (I know some cars were released in Europe with J1772 though, but you run into the same issue).

There are lots of EVs with Type 1 (J1772) connectors in Europe (like the Leaf) but since they all have single phase chargers it doesn't matter. Just use a Type 1->Type 2 cable instead of the Type 2->Type 2 that the cars with Type 2 ports use. Fast charging is separate anyway, by means of CHAdeMO for the Type 1 cars. So no issues for Type 1 cars in Europe. A Type 2 car in the US would not work well however, due to US charging points having fixed cables instead of an outlet.

 

[Saghost]

There are lots of EVs with Type 1 (J1772) connectors in Europe (like the Leaf) but since they all have single phase chargers it doesn't matter. Just use a Type 1->Type 2 cable instead of the Type 2->Type 2 that the cars with Type 2 ports use. Fast charging is separate anyway, by means of CHAdeMO for the Type 1 cars. So no issues for Type 1 cars in Europe. A Type 2 car in the US would not work well however, due to US charging points having fixed cables instead of an outlet.

As I understand it, the signaling is the same. That being the case, there's no reason a European car couldn't use a simple dumb adapter to charge on US J1772 plugs - the same way the US Tesla uses a dumb adapter.

The bigger issue would be charge rates - as I understand it, the European charger designed for three phase power is made up of three smaller chargers each limited to 16 Amps (vs the single larger module of the US single phase charger rated for 40 Amps.)

The obvious way of hooking it together would leave the European car limited to a single charger module and 40% of the speed of the US car. I don't know if the wiring is such that all three modules could be paralleled by the dumb adapter.
Walter

 

[GreenT]

You will void your warranty.

 

[wonko]

The European system uses three phases at 240V each when charging in AC mode. Three phases are quite uncommon in the U.S. . In domestic areas, it's usually one phase at 110V, sometimes two that can be coupled to generate 240V. The five main pins in the European Type 2 connector are protective earth, neytral, and those three phases. With a single charger, Teslas can charge 16Amps or 11kW using all three phases, and with a double charger, well, it's double.

DC charging at the SuC is an entirely different thing. Here, the electronics in the car are no longer used, but the charger is in the SuC-station (which explains, why SuC stations cost more than an AC charger by a factor of 50!). DC charging is pretty much the same in the U.S. and in Europe, except that the European fiv-prong plug combines two prongs each for + and - DC.

 

[FlasherZ]

The European system uses three phases at 240V each when charging in AC mode. Three phases are quite uncommon in the U.S. . In domestic areas, it's usually one phase at 110V, sometimes two that can be coupled to generate 240V. The five main pins in the European Type 2 connector are protective earth, neytral, and those three phases. With a single charger, Teslas can charge 16Amps or 11kW using all three phases, and with a double charger, well, it's double.

DC charging at the SuC is an entirely different thing. Here, the electronics in the car are no longer used, but the charger is in the SuC-station (which explains, why SuC stations cost more than an AC charger by a factor of 50!). DC charging is pretty much the same in the U.S. and in Europe, except that the European fiv-prong plug combines two prongs each for + and - DC.

An EU car can charge in the US without a problem - the single-phase power is tied to all inputs on the car, and you adjust amperage accordingly (you'd have to set 13A three-phase on the car to get 39A on the single-phase).

A US car can only charge at 32A in Europe, because of the single-phase charger.

 

[DustinDep]

Did you ever bring yours over?

 

[arg]

(you'd have to set 13A three-phase on the car to get 39A on the single-phase).

It doesn't work that way: the car detects whether it is true three-phase or just single phase applied in parallel and interprets the pilot accordingly - if you supply single phase and a 32A pilot, it will draw 32A in total (I haven't measured to see if it draws 2x16A with the third input unused or 3x10.6A), while if you supply actual three-phase and the same 32A pilot, it will draw 32A from each of the phases (assuming 2nd charger fitted).

I have not seen any reports of what happens if you supply single phase and a pilot above 32A - the website spec for the EU cars originally mentioned single phase at some high figure, but that's since disappeared and I'm not sure if it was ever implemented. EVSE for single phase >32A is not generally available here.

 

[sunnyvale]

Did anyone managed to move Tesla to the Europe from the US?

 

[randvegeta]

Did anyone managed to move Tesla to the Europe from the US?

Sure. Where I live, Lithuania, just about every Tesla seems to be from the US. There are no SuperChargers here, and barely any charging infrastructure of any kind any way, so the benefits of an EU spec Tesla are not really a thing here.

I have 2014 S 60 from the US and charge at home most of the time. Though I have a 32amp 3-phase outlet at home, I am only able to use a single phase, which limits me to around 7kw or around 35km/h charging.

For travelling, I carry a few adaptors that allows me to charge from a Type 2 outlet, or Chademo. For Type 2, again I can only use 1 phase, limiting me to 7kw (or worse.. 3.5kw). The Chademo adaptor is the most useful. Though most Chademo charging stations do not quite deliver the 50kw they are rated to, I still get a reasonable 35 - 40kw from the ones that I have used, and this makes long distance travel a realistic option. Bare in mind, that 40kw charge rate gives you about 200 - 220km/h, upto around 90% SoC. It takes about 1.5 - 2 hours to get a full charge from near empty.

So if you do decide to bring over a US tesla into Europe, make sure you get a Chademo adaptor!

If anyone makes an EU->US Tesla Super Charger Adaptor, and it actually works... count me in! I'll pay good money for that.

 

[Saghost]

If anyone makes an EU->US Tesla Super Charger Adaptor, and it actually works... count me in! I'll pay good money for that.

This should be a simple dumb adapter - from everything I've seen on the forum I believe that the signaling is identical, only the pins and plug shape are different.

Of course, you're introducing a new source for failures, and with 300+ Amps running through it you'd better be exactly to spec on both connectors with a big fat conducter between them.

 

[Clemi]

Moving with my family and my 2013 Tesla S 60 I have the advantage to import 1 car per person customs free and sales tax free, which together makes up about 30% of the temporary value. So it makes a lot of sense to take our cars over. The minor conversions like fog lights, head lights and blinker colors are no problem as I can buy them in a Tesla shop there. AC charging at home with 220V is no problem as there is a type 1 to Schuco cable available. Stay away from 360V rotary current. My ChadDemo Adapter works - slower than Tesla Sperchargers for which no Type 1 to Type 2 adapter is available. The big problem with ChsDemos in EUrope as well as in US is that they all belong to different owners: communities, companies, clubs. None of them lets you charge with a simple credit card!! You must become a member in that group, then they give you access to their ChaDemos either via an app or they send a charging card by snail male: This means you have to know weeks ahead when and where you will run out of juice. Even traveling from Logan Utah to Vernal, UT, or Baker NV, you get stuck there, unless some nice private person lets you recharge on their 110V/12amp kitchen outlet. haha. The reason why nobody dares to offer a T1 to T@ adapter for DC charging iI figured must be this: Someone "smart" could use it to hook up to a 360V three phase power AC outlet. Maybe if there is demand someone really smart can invent a "Dummy-proof" adapter in the future. Is it true that newer Teslas have an AC- charger built in that can take 3 phases?, but uses only one in the US? So they all come with the same built in AC- charger? I asked Tesla in Hamburg whether they could put a T2 charger and female plug in my car. They declined.
Don't forget I am talking abot a value difference of the same car for me in US 36,000 versus EU 70,000 if it were Charging homologue.

 

[Clemi]

Who in his sane mind would buy a Gas- powered car if refueling were such an obstacle as with Chademos. Tesla did the right thing in founding a convenient infrastructure. Although different in different parts of the world. This made Teslas sales soar. Next step must be the homologation.-- Just like with gasoline, when Canada started with unleaded. Now it's world wide, at least, available. Or Av. Gas LL100.

 

[Saghost]

Moving with my family and my 2013 Tesla S 60 I have the advantage to import 1 car per person customs free and sales tax free, which together makes up about 30% of the temporary value. So it makes a lot of sense to take our cars over. The minor conversions like fog lights, head lights and blinker colors are no problem as I can buy them in a Tesla shop there. AC charging at home with 220V is no problem as there is a type 1 to Schuco cable available. Stay away from 360V rotary current. My ChadDemo Adapter works - slower than Tesla Sperchargers for which no Type 1 to Type 2 adapter is available. The big problem with ChsDemos in EUrope as well as in US is that they all belong to different owners: communities, companies, clubs. None of them lets you charge with a simple credit card!! You must become a member in that group, then they give you access to their ChaDemos either via an app or they send a charging card by snail male: This means you have to know weeks ahead when and where you will run out of juice. Even traveling from Logan Utah to Vernal, UT, or Baker NV, you get stuck there, unless some nice private person lets you recharge on their 110V/12amp kitchen outlet. haha. The reason why nobody dares to offer a T1 to T@ adapter for DC charging iI figured must be this: Someone "smart" could use it to hook up to a 360V three phase power AC outlet. Maybe if there is demand someone really smart can invent a "Dummy-proof" adapter in the future. Is it true that newer Teslas have an AC- charger built in that can take 3 phases?, but uses only one in the US? So they all come with the same built in AC- charger? I asked Tesla in Hamburg whether they could put a T2 charger and female plug in my car. They declined.
Don't forget I am talking abot a value difference of the same car for me in US 36,000 versus EU 70,000 if it were Charging homologue.

It's true that European Teslas will charge with three phases.

I have no proof, but I suspect they use the same charger modules as the US, connected differently. The standard charger in the US for the last couple years is 48A; my guess is that is three modules hooked in parallel that can be set up to draw 16A from each of the phases instead.

If you have a mechanic comfortable working with high voltages and can find a wrecked EU car of the same era, you might be able to switch the parts around, though you might need the ability to code modules if you have to switch anything very big.

 

[Clemi]

I know they do, my Q was: are new US models now equipped with the same three phase charger, but use only one phase because of the T1 adapter? Which means with newer models one woul only have to exchange the female car inlet from T1 to T2, and vice versa when taking your loved one with you.

 

[Saghost]

I know they do, my Q was: are new US models now equipped with the same three phase charger, but use only one phase because of the T1 adapter? Which means with newer models one woul only have to exchange the female car inlet from T1 to T2, and vice versa when taking your loved one with you.

As I said above, I suspect we use basically the same module, but with all three subunits connected to the same single phase instead of individual ones.

 

[sjokomelk]

It is the same charger in both US and EU cars since Model X and facelift Model S - the 16.5kW charger.
They are all 3 modules at max 24A. In the US they are connected in parallel, and in the EU in wye for 400V 3-phase.