Difficult situation with a Condo, advice appreciated...

[MetricExpanse]

To address a few of the ideas being presented...

I am most likely not going to be installing just a NEMA outlet of any kind. I will almost certainly be going foe the Tesla Wall Connector because my power company’s incentive makes it free and because it will qualify me for the federal tax credit for installing an EVSE.

Also, my dryer is a gas one. I was hoping to use something like a dryer buddy, but it’s not going to work because I don’t have a large circuit for the dryer.

As for 20A charging, I know based on my driving needs that it would be fine if that’s all I end up being able to get. But I’d like to swing a bigger circuit if I can! As of right now, I don’t even know where my meter is and if it turns out it’s a lot closer than I’d been assuming so far, it might change my calculus quite a bit!

 

[BradBaker]

Hi everyone! I recently took delivery of a Tesla Model 3 Long Range, and I love it!

Unfortunately, it seems that I should have done more homework when it comes to charging. I live in a 1970's condo unit in Los Angeles and I'm trying to get home charging installed. My HOA is receptive to me installing charging, so that's not an issue. My two issues are

1) My electrical meter is over 400 feet away from my parking spot. That means that my cabling might be expensive. However, my actual apartment (which has my electrical panel) is directly above my parking space.

2) My unit's main breaker is only 70A.

I spoke to two electricians so far. The first one came out and was the one who measured the distance. He said he would upgrade my main breaker to 100A and then run the power all the 400 ft to my space for $5700! That was a LOT and I'm also wonder if it's "okay" to just replace the breaker.

I then called another electrician over the phone (haven't had them come out yet) and asked if it was reasonable to just the power from my *panel* in my unit to the car. That would only be 80 ft, but he expressed concern over my 70A breaker. That said, he thinks it might be possible to do a slow 20A breaker. I do have air conditioning in this 650 sq ft unit.

So what's the deal here? Why is it that one guy is willing to upgrade the breaker but then wants to run the 400 ft wiring run, while the other guy is willing to run from the panel but is concerned about the amount of power I have available? What does you all think the best way to go is? Try to get power from my panel? Swallow the cost of a 400 ft run? Is it even safe to upgrade my breaker or to tap off my panel??

For reference, here's my breaker panel:

View attachment 651591

 

[BradBaker]

I'm not an electrician, but I did just upgrade at my condo. First of all, you can put double the load in a panel. So a 70 amp panel can support 140 amps of circuit breakers. You can google that to get a quick confirmation, but that is what I have done and my electrician gives the green light - it passes code.

Secondly, if you read the info on your panel on the left, it says 125 amps. So you could load circuit breakers that go up to 250 amps. I'd run the 80 feet from the panel. Get a confirm from an electrician, but I'd head in that direction. You can email me or call if you want to discuss. Another thing to check is at the glass meter can - see what circuit breaker is on that. I'm guessing it is 125 amps. But confirm that. I have a 2000 square foot condo and I just installed a 50 amp circuit in my 150 amp meter in Florida. No issues. And that includes 40 breakers for Hvac, range, air handler, water heater, a half dozen 20 amp kitchen/bath circuits, etc. Code knows that all devices are not on at the same time and oversizes everything for that. But it is in the code and no city would permit anything unsafe.

Hope my experience helps.

 

[Target]

I'm not an electrician, but I did just upgrade at my condo. First of all, you can put double the load in a panel. So a 70 amp panel can support 140 amps of circuit breakers. You can google that to get a quick confirmation, but that is what I have done and my electrician gives the green light - it passes code.

Secondly, if you read the info on your panel on the left, it says 125 amps. So you could load circuit breakers that go up to 250 amps. I'd run the 80 feet from the panel. Get a confirm from an electrician, but I'd head in that direction. You can email me or call if you want to discuss. Another thing to check is at the glass meter can - see what circuit breaker is on that. I'm guessing it is 125 amps. But confirm that. I have a 2000 square foot condo and I just installed a 50 amp circuit in my 150 amp meter in Florida. No issues. And that includes 40 breakers for Hvac, range, air handler, water heater, a half dozen 20 amp kitchen/bath circuits, etc. Code knows that all devices are not on at the same time and oversizes everything for that. But it is in the code and no city would permit anything unsafe.

Hope my experience helps.

My 200 Amp panel has 765 amps worth of breakers in it. Adding up the breakers in a panel has no relevance to the load on the panel, and the amperage rating of the panel isn't relevant to the size of the service except that the panel should be rated equal or higher than the service or circuit feeding it.

No city SHOULD permit anything unsafe, but sometimes they do because they miss a detail that is important. The best thing we can do is hire competent and honest electricians who will give us good advice and hope that between them and the city we get the best solution we can for the money we want to spend. Sometimes that means paying more than the lowest bidder though.

Edited to add: Or spend a few years of free time studying the NEC code book, electrician forums, and taking on substantial projects to build up experience and knowledge on the topic. Then design, submit for review, and then implement concepts which then pass inspection by the relevant cities. Then spend time educating people on the various charging station installation topics, hopefully in clear English, free of charge. I am not an electrician, I am only certified to work on Aircraft, Aircraft Engines, Computer Networks, Computer Operating Systems, server hardware, Inventory Management processes and systems, and Storage Area Networks. I am not a certified electrician, that is just one of my many hobbies.

 

[westie10019]

Hi everyone! I recently took delivery of a Tesla Model 3 Long Range, and I love it!

Unfortunately, it seems that I should have done more homework when it comes to charging. I live in a 1970's condo unit in Los Angeles and I'm trying to get home charging installed. My HOA is receptive to me installing charging, so that's not an issue. My two issues are

1) My electrical meter is over 400 feet away from my parking spot. That means that my cabling might be expensive. However, my actual apartment (which has my electrical panel) is directly above my parking space.

2) My unit's main breaker is only 70A.

I spoke to two electricians so far. The first one came out and was the one who measured the distance. He said he would upgrade my main breaker to 100A and then run the power all the 400 ft to my space for $5700! That was a LOT and I'm also wonder if it's "okay" to just replace the breaker.

I then called another electrician over the phone (haven't had them come out yet) and asked if it was reasonable to just the power from my *panel* in my unit to the car. That would only be 80 ft, but he expressed concern over my 70A breaker. That said, he thinks it might be possible to do a slow 20A breaker. I do have air conditioning in this 650 sq ft unit.

So what's the deal here? Why is it that one guy is willing to upgrade the breaker but then wants to run the 400 ft wiring run, while the other guy is willing to run from the panel but is concerned about the amount of power I have available? What does you all think the best way to go is? Try to get power from my panel? Swallow the cost of a 400 ft run? Is it even safe to upgrade my breaker or to tap off my panel??

For reference, here's my breaker panel:

View attachment 651591

Are these LICENSED Electrical contractors? There are to many variables with the information you were given? Just sticking a 100 Amp breaker in a 70 Amp rated panel got my attention. The wire size for 70 Amp vs 100 Amp is considerable, that just scares me. Someone is not being very truthful. I am a IBEW Electrician with 25+ years of experience and many, many many hours of formal school related to the electrical industry, so I think I speak with some knowledge and experience. This entire thing sounds a like sketchy, just find a licenesed electrical contractor with expertise in multi unit installations. Good Luck!

 

[Target]

Are these LICENSED Electrical contractors? There are to many variables with the information you were given? Just sticking a 100 Amp breaker in a 70 Amp rated panel got my attention. The wire size for 70 Amp vs 100 Amp is considerable, that just scares me. Someone is not being very truthful. I am a IBEW Electrician with 25+ years of experience and many, many many hours of formal school related to the electrical industry, so I think I speak with some knowledge and experience. This entire thing sounds a like sketchy, just find a licenesed electrical contractor with expertise in multi unit installations. Good Luck!

I was wondering the same thing earlier, but these guys were planning to pull permits, which honestly surprised me! So many guys around me won't bother for residential work.

 

[Baymax123]

I would say that 5700$ is extremly cheap compare to mine. I also live in a condo. My parking spot distance is 170ft to the power source. Here is mine cost to install a 500 dollar tesla wall connector charger!!
$7,050 charger and its installation
(Install 1 80amp 2phase sub-panel.
Install 1 100amp 2 phase Kwh sub-meter.
Install Tesla wall connector 3rd Generation White.
Install 1 80amp 2 pole circuit breaker.
Install dedicated 60amp 240v circuit aprox 170ft .
Install metal conduit aprox. 170ft.
Electrical permit included.)
$700 Virginia Arlington county permit
$400-500 1 million dollar insurrance per year
$1,500 one-time application fee
$1,000 refundable deposit fee
$3,500 electrical load capacity study
$2,500 engineering design drawing set
$16,750 Total

 

[Rownolds]

OK, wait. What I'd really do is:
Buy enough 12 gauge romex to reach from your panel, out the window and down to near your car.
Put in a 20 amp double pole breaker and hook it to the wire hanging out the window, down to a NEMA 14-50 flopping loose down at the end of the romex.
Do the 'heat test' as outlined above..
If it passes, install it properly.
Oh, and the car display will tell you how much voltage drop there is when drawing 20 amps. If it's more than 5 volts, go with 10 gauge wire instead for the permanent installation.

 

[MrWattson]

I would say that 5700$ is extremly cheap compare to mine. I also live in a condo. My parking spot distance is 170ft to the power source. Here is mine cost to install a 500 dollar tesla wall connector charger!!
$7,050 charger and its installation
(Install 1 80amp 2phase sub-panel.
Install 1 100amp 2 phase Kwh sub-meter.
Install Tesla wall connector 3rd Generation White.
Install 1 80amp 2 pole circuit breaker.
Install dedicated 60amp 240v circuit aprox 170ft .
Install metal conduit aprox. 170ft.
Electrical permit included.)
$700 Virginia Arlington county permit
$400-500 1 million dollar insurrance per year
$1,500 one-time application fee
$1,000 refundable deposit fee
$3,500 electrical load capacity study
$2,500 engineering design drawing set
$16,750 Total

that is ridiculous...and I live in NJ and a town known for making permits painful and expensive.

 

[Breizh_72]

Hi everyone! I recently took delivery of a Tesla Model 3 Long Range, and I love it!

Unfortunately, it seems that I should have done more homework when it comes to charging. I live in a 1970's condo unit in Los Angeles and I'm trying to get home charging installed. My HOA is receptive to me installing charging, so that's not an issue. My two issues are

1) My electrical meter is over 400 feet away from my parking spot. That means that my cabling might be expensive. However, my actual apartment (which has my electrical panel) is directly above my parking space.

2) My unit's main breaker is only 70A.

I spoke to two electricians so far. The first one came out and was the one who measured the distance. He said he would upgrade my main breaker to 100A and then run the power all the 400 ft to my space for $5700! That was a LOT and I'm also wonder if it's "okay" to just replace the breaker.

I then called another electrician over the phone (haven't had them come out yet) and asked if it was reasonable to just the power from my *panel* in my unit to the car. That would only be 80 ft, but he expressed concern over my 70A breaker. That said, he thinks it might be possible to do a slow 20A breaker. I do have air conditioning in this 650 sq ft unit.

So what's the deal here? Why is it that one guy is willing to upgrade the breaker but then wants to run the 400 ft wiring run, while the other guy is willing to run from the panel but is concerned about the amount of power I have available? What does you all think the best way to go is? Try to get power from my panel? Swallow the cost of a 400 ft run? Is it even safe to upgrade my breaker or to tap off my panel??

For reference, here's my breaker panel:

View attachment 651591

If it helps, my situation and installation in a 1955 small “condo” was a similar, except the distance. It costed me 4254 Canadian dollars, taxes included with the Tesla Connector.
My electrical panel is the same as yours, and too far away from the charging spot.
Electrician installed a 40A circuit breaker and a Demand Controller Charge between the meter (100A power line) and the charging station/electrical panel.
The DCC reads the power consumption in my house and allow the charger to start up only if there’s enough power margin between the apartment consumption and the main power line.
(used when the electrical panel is too far away or antiquated like mine)


My post on Twitter with pictures (I struggled to add pics in this TMC post)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1375504124071006213

 

[ram1901]

I am using an old electric dryer circuit to chair my Tesla. It was a 30 amp circuit giving me a usable 18-20 amp service at the plug.
I get 10-12 miles an hour of charge when I plug in. If you drive the car an average of 50 miles in daily use, even with a regular 15
or 20 amp outlet you will get 3-5 miles an hour of charge. So if you start charging at 9pm and leave in the morning around 7 am
you'll have 10 hours of charging or either, at the worst, 3 miles * 10 or 30 miles of charge in the battery and at the best,
10 miles * 10 or 100 miles of charge in the battery, if you have an electric dryer circuit available.
Bottom line, you do NOT need a 50amp circuit to charge your Tesla overnight unless you drive it more than 50 miles daily and even
then you can get by with a lower amp circuit and still top it off while you sleep.

 

[hmgolds]

An uglier question is do you have a HOA that will allow any of this? Surely you're not the only EV in your whole complex.

Glad someone brought this up. There are a lots of suggestions in this thread that might make sense in a single family home, when you are doing your own wiring, but not feasible in a condo.

First, your condo association may - or may not - allow you to increase your electrical capacity. Why? Because the overall electrical capacity in the building is based on 70a per unit and they can't allow you to increase and not allow others. Maybe there is excess capacity, but maybe not.

AFAIK, the NEC isn't written to account for "I promise not to run X while running Y".

In a multifamily dwelling, any devices added may have to be UL Listed to pass inspection. (It's that way in a condo I own - might be local requirement, don't know.)

BTW, do you by any chance have natural gas to your clothes dryer location? If so, there's a opportunity to pick up some amps.

 

[MetricExpanse]

Glad someone brought this up. There are a lots of suggestions in this thread that might make sense in a single family home, when you are doing your own wiring, but not feasible in a condo.

First, your condo association may - or may not - allow you to increase your electrical capacity. Why? Because the overall electrical capacity in the building is based on 70a per unit and they can't allow you to increase and not allow others. Maybe there is excess capacity, but maybe not.

AFAIK, the NEC isn't written to account for "I promise not to run X while running Y".

In a multifamily dwelling, any devices added may have to be UL Listed to pass inspection. (It's that way in a condo I own - might be local requirement, don't know.)

BTW, do you by any chance have natural gas to your clothes dryer location? If so, there's a opportunity to pick up some amps.

Yeah, I've already got a gas dryer at the moment. My current task right now is to figure out where my electrical meter is. I thought I knew where it was, but now I think it might be a lot closer than I expected. If so, then the amount I save on my installation (which could be quite a lot if my meter is close) would give me more options.

Regarding the NEC, my idea is that if I really want to go 30A then I can splurge on the DCC unit or, if my meter turns out to be *really* close (less than maybe 100ft), I might shoot my shot with the HOA in getting 80A or 100A service approved and getting even better charging.

Worst case, I'd end up with 20A I think. Target's load calculation earlier suggests that that's pretty safe!

 

[PalmBeachPaul]

If you Google EV Charging Splitter you will find products (SplitVolt, NeoCharge, etc) that allow you to have 2 devices connected to one 30A 240V circuit. They share one circuit but only allow one device to be on at the same time so you won't overload your 70A circuit & wiring. From your panel diagram, your dryer has a 30A/2-pole breaker. You plug this unit into your existing dryer outlet then plug the dryer into it as the primary and a 30A EV cable into the secondary outlet to feed an 30A outlet in your garage. Anytime you run the dryer, the EV outlet will be shut off but you can easily plan your drying and charging. You will only need to run wire from behind your dryer to your parking spot so your wiring distance and cost will be minimized. You can buy different plug cords for your Tesla mobile charger to fit a 30A plug type.

 

[MetricExpanse]

If you Google EV Charging Splitter you will find products (SplitVolt, NeoCharge, etc) that allow you to have 2 devices connected to one 30A 240V circuit. They share one circuit but only allow one device to be on at the same time so you won't overload your 70A circuit & wiring. From your panel diagram, your dryer has a 30A/2-pole breaker. You plug this unit into your existing dryer outlet then plug the dryer into it as the primary and a 30A EV cable into the secondary outlet to feed an 30A outlet in your garage. Anytime you run the dryer, the EV outlet will be shut off but you can easily plan your drying and charging. You will only need to run wire from behind your dryer to your parking spot so your wiring distance and cost will be minimized. You can buy different plug cords for your Tesla mobile charger to fit a 30A plug type.

Ah sorry, I think the diagram is confusing you. The actual position of the diagram labels is kind of wrong... look at the numbering instead. You'll see that the 30A circuit is actually for the AC (actually a heat pump). I too was hoping that the dryer circuit would work for me, but it is indeed a gas dryer on a 120V circuit.

 

[Tedjohn]

I got approval from our HOA to put a post up by our outside parking spot. Then ran a 40 amp line from my units electrical panel underground to the post. Works fine

 

[PalmBeachPaul]

Ah sorry, I think the diagram is confusing you. The actual position of the diagram labels is kind of wrong... look at the numbering instead. You'll see that the 30A circuit is actually for the AC (actually a heat pump). I too was hoping that the dryer circuit would work for me, but it is indeed a gas dryer on a 120V circuit.

I think you can use the same logic with the HVAC. Though if the HVAC runs all of the time it won’t work well but if you can get a few hours each night, you might be able to make it work. Without some form of load sharing, you will have trouble avoiding a costly panel upgrade requiring a long heavy gauge wire pull.

 

[TimR]

Have you thought maybe changing parking spaces to one nearer the meter/ main panel ? Perhaps This would open the usage to multiple units ? Talk to your condo association. Maybe there is more demand than you know ? Install a few units for multiple people to charge ...

 

[Target]

So an interesting development... I went to actually go look for my meter to make sure it is where I think it is. Even though I don't have access to the meters directly, it had just a metal gate surrounding it. So I got the idea to stick my hand in with my phone and grab pictures of all the meters that were there. So I did. And I didn't actually find my meter there (i.e. I didn't find a meter with the same meter number as what's on my power bill).

Unless the meter number on my bill is somehow different from what's actually written on it, I'm getting doubtful that my meter is actually in that distant location! Even more interesting, I noticed that underneath my apartment balcony, about 50ft from where my Tesla is parked, there's a small room that I can't get into. And it has these grey things next to it. Is it possible that this is another meeter room??

Here's a picture. I'm wondering if this is another electrical room with more meters. If that's really it, then the run for my Tesla would only be like 50ft from the meter, and I wouldn't even need a manlift...

View attachment 652510

Not sure about the grey cylinders, they look like vents for something like sewer / stormwater or something. My guess on the room, water meters and shut offs. It could be electrical though, and it could even be BOTH!! If you don't know where your water shut off is you should find that as part of your adventure. It's good to know in case you ever have a leak and need to shut it all down before you flood the world below you.

5 minutes is a long time when a pipe is broken and based on how you describe the responses of your association management, I am assuming it would be far longer than 5 minutes before they could tell you where the shut off is for your water. Also, the same thing for Natural Gas, you can always open windows and stuff for it at least, but still a good thing to know.

 

[MetricExpanse]

Not sure about the grey cylinders, they look like vents for something like sewer / stormwater or something. My guess on the room, water meters and shut offs. It could be electrical though, and it could even be BOTH!! If you don't know where your water shut off is you should find that as part of your adventure. It's good to know in case you ever have a leak and need to shut it all down before you flood the world below you.

5 minutes is a long time when a pipe is broken and based on how you describe the responses of your association management, I am assuming it would be far longer than 5 minutes before they could tell you where the shut off is for your water. Also, the same thing for Natural Gas, you can always open windows and stuff for it at least, but still a good thing to know.

That’s a great idea. I actually happen to know the water shut-offs are on the side of the building, but I’ve never thought to identify my own. I’ll be sure to do that when I’m doing my electrical room recon tomorrow! Tomorrow’s going to give me a lot of answers!