Dilemma - stick or twist re vehicle choice

[interbear]

Our 2 car family has had a x1 EV and x1 ICE policy for the last few years. Current EV is a Model Y (replaced our 2019 Model 3 in mid 2022) and the current ICE is a 2022 VW Transporter camper van. The Model Y is our main vehicle, charge on off peak electricity at home, cheap to run etc. The VW van is a diesel DSG and is mainly used as a 2nd vehicle when needed but comes into its own for weekend camping trips, holidays etc.

As well as all local driving, the Model Y is also used for regular (1 or 2 times per month) drives from South Wales to Scotland, usually visiting Glasgow and the Borders region. The Borders is not good for public charging options, I always divert to Gretna to charge up before heading east. My Chargeplace Scotland experience in the Borders has been unreliable at best, on one trip I had to jump between Hawick, Selkirk, Galashiels and Melrose to find a charge point. Inefficient and time wasting. The other reasonably regular trip for us is Normandy in France, another rural black spot when it comes to charging options.

I’ve also found more recently that wait times for Tesla chargers at Gretna, Tebay etc have added significant time to what is already a long journey. And this week I had a different charging issue, drove to Heathrow and back (approx 200 miles round trip), thought I’d do that OK after charging to 100% overnight. But no, had to stop for 30 mins at Membury on the way back, not something I enjoyed late last night when I just wanted to get home after a long week away.

So, much though I love the Model Y driving experience I’m wondering if a “step back to move forward” strategy may work better for us given that the EV public charging infrastructure does not seem to be keeping pace (or I’ve simply realised that it doesn’t fit our needs as much as I thought it did).

We’re keeping the VW camper van so options are:

1) STICK - Use the Model Y for most journeys but use the VW van for longer journeys to Scotland, Normandy etc. Not the most efficient though, it does approx 25-28mpg for short journeys, but on a longer run can get up to 35mpg. And it’s diesel so has an environmental impact of course although is a new diesel so as clean as they get.

2) TWIST - Replace the Model Y with a small plug in hybrid SUV, with a decent hatch for carting the dog around. Something with approx 40-50 mile electric range as we have the home charging wall box already so it would cover most of our local driving efficiently and with no CO2 emissions. But would also be suitable for longer journeys using petrol without the diversions or time to deal with public charging. One concern I have on this strategy is that the MPG for those longer journeys may actually be no better than the VW camper van. Another is that I was a real PHEV sceptic so this would be quite an about turn But it might make sense.

I’m not entirely sure what the best option is. Opinions, thoughts from the friendly TMC community appreciated.

 

[rcotgrov]

1. STICK - our family has a Model Y (for around town + long distances) and a BMW 2 Series Active Tourer 225XE PHEV (whenever we need a 2nd car at the same time) - The Model Y is perfect. I hate the BMW Hybrid though as you really do have to plug it in daily and it regularly runs out of charge because I like to use the Max EV mode. It's about 2years old and in reality in the cold months / travelling up a hill from our home to most places it does about 12miles. Marketing of course says 30 or something. If you do get a PHEV and want to use the EV only mode a lot get something with the highest electric range you find. Honestly seriously thinking about a 2nd Tesla, perhaps a 3year old Model 3. Prices have dropped considerably.

 

[init6]

I had a PHEV and it was a great 'gateway drug' to move to EV, but not sure I'd do the reverse.

I wonder what the real world range of these new PHEVs is. As above mine only did about 12 miles in the winter, but I appreciate it's not just about running electric only. Electric/Petrol did give you more MPG (and a wee bit extra power).

I also find long journeys less tiring in my 3 than any of my previous cars. I remember one journey around Paris where by the end of it I was vibrating in tune with the engine - even when I got out of the car. Just don't get that in the Tesla.

 

[phil4]

I'd stick with the Y, especially as you can include longer trips, albeit you might not use it for the longest. We previously had a Honda E, and while great, did mean our driving "sphere" wasn't very wide, so even the odd medium distance trip was done in the Tesla.
Now we've got a Y and a 3... and the Y, while primarily doing school trips and the like, can be used with ease to go far far far further.

 

[interbear]

1. STICK - our family has a Model Y (for around town + long distances) and a BMW 2 Series Active Tourer 225XE PHEV (whenever we need a 2nd car at the same time) - The Model Y is perfect. I hate the BMW Hybrid though as you really do have to plug it in daily and it regularly runs out of charge because I like to use the Max EV mode. It's about 2years old and in reality in the cold months / travelling up a hill from our home to most places it does about 12miles. Marketing of course says 30 or something. If you do get a PHEV and want to use the EV only mode a lot get something with the highest electric range you find. Honestly seriously thinking about a 2nd Tesla, perhaps a 3year old Model 3. Prices have dropped considerably.

Interesting, thanks. I should indeed consider the “realistic” range of PHEV. I was looking at those marketed to do 40-60 miles so probably half that in reality.

 

[interbear]

I had a PHEV and it was a great 'gateway drug' to move to EV, but not sure I'd do the reverse.

I wonder what the real world range of these new PHEVs is. As above mine only did about 12 miles in the winter, but I appreciate it's not just about running electric only. Electric/Petrol did give you more MPG (and a wee bit extra power).

I also find long journeys less tiring in my 3 than any of my previous cars. I remember one journey around Paris where by the end of it I was vibrating in tune with the engine - even when I got out of the car. Just don't get that in the Tesla.

Agree re the long journey fatigue not being an issue in the Tesla. Although I also think that’s because I stop more often Which is probably recommended anyway.

On considering PHEV now, I agree it’s counter intuitive, I’m just debating whether or not it’s a better fit for my journey profile.

The easiest option would definitely be to stick and just use the VW van for longer journeys or journeys to areas where the charging infrastructure is more challenged.

 

[Jason71]

Today may be a bad day to be considering putting a Tesla on the market......

 

[Casss]

Stick. I think I'm your vehicle doppelgänger by the way. We have settled on exactly the same combo (Model Y in addition to our T5.1 camper). Camper does holiday trips or when we need to do big distances with all 3 dogs plus child, Model Y does everything else. A few times a week both vehicles are out, so our fuel bill is much lower than it used to be. Coincidentally - the camper is never being sold. Family pet now - when the engine dies (probably over 150k miles left in it yet) it will get a refurbed golf engine or an EV conversion.

Aside from the fact values are all over the place currently - is it possible you're just having an itchy feet moment now that the novelty has worn off? I used to change cars far too frequently (and I always managed to conjure up a "reason" to do so, however small and now looking back, usually illogical). It cost a fortune, but at that point in my life it was worth it because it made me happy. Unless you don't need the space in the Y, or you're being forced to do journeys in it where charging is a genuine issue, you've got the perfect combo IMO.

 

[Gatsojon]

I’d stick. From what you say, it feels the perfect combination. I’d love a camper project!

 

[interbear]

Today may be a bad day to be considering putting a Tesla on the market......

Agree on that front. I’m not planning to do anything impulsive though.

 

[interbear]

Stick. I think I'm your vehicle doppelgänger by the way. We have settled on exactly the same combo (Model Y in addition to our T5.1 camper). Camper does holiday trips or when we need to do big distances with all 3 dogs plus child, Model Y does everything else. A few times a week both vehicles are out, so our fuel bill is much lower than it used to be. Coincidentally - the camper is never being sold. Family pet now - when the engine dies (probably over 150k miles left in it yet) it will get a refurbed golf engine or an EV conversion.

Aside from the fact values are all over the place currently - is it possible you're just having an itchy feet moment now that the novelty has worn off? I used to change cars far too frequently (and I always managed to conjure up a "reason" to do so, however small and now looking back, usually illogical). It cost a fortune, but at that point in my life it was worth it because it made me happy. Unless you don't need the space in the Y, or you're being forced to do journeys in it where charging is a genuine issue, you've got the perfect combo IMO.

Doppelgängers indeed Also on the history of liking the idea of a new car and inventing a reason to get one. I blame my years of company cars and automatically changing every 3 years for that, I carried it on when I exited the company car scheme. I need to get that out of my system!

On the campervan front, same here too, we bought it new last year and love it. It’s definitely staying.

I’m definitely veering towards the STICK option. One other thought I had today was that if I bought a PHEV for those longer trips, the additional cost of annual tax, servicing etc would probably me more than the small additional cost vs using the campervan for the longer trips instead of the Model Y (diesel cost vs supercharging cost), given the fact that the Model Y costs zero in tax and maintenance terms. Neither am I yet convinced that PHEVs are much more economical that the campervan when running on petrol for longer trips,may they have to haul the heavy battery around.

 

[Mrklaw]

stick. Surprised you can't do a 200 mile round trip in a LR. Did you have sentry on for a week or something? I mean even if so, thats a potentially quick top off at hilton park for 10 minutes.

Scotland you'll get used to where to go and find your legs eventually?

 

[interbear]

stick. Surprised you can't do a 200 mile round trip in a LR. Did you have sentry on for a week or something? I mean even if so, thats a potentially quick top off at hilton park for 10 minutes.

Scotland you'll get used to where to go and find your legs eventually?

I was surprised too. From a 100% start it was 46% when I got to Heathrow after 112 miles exactly. I'm assuming it was the weather / driving conditions - very wet and windy and a lot of surface water on the M4. I didn't leave Sentry on at the airport car park, after a week away I returned to 44% charge, which seemed about right. For the return journey last night I needed to stop and charge at Membury.

 

[Mrklaw]

I was surprised too. From a 100% start it was 46% when I got to Heathrow after 112 miles exactly. I'm assuming it was the weather / driving conditions - very wet and windy and a lot of surface water on the M4. I didn't leave Sentry on at the airport car park, after a week away I returned to 44% charge, which seemed about right. For the return journey last night I needed to stop and charge at Membury.

hmm I think I remember one trip in the wet and wind that took a lot more out of the car than I expected. Unusual but always worth being aware I guess. You'd expect the LR to be an 'always >200 miles' car.

Membury is ok if you're passing but if you're going down the M4 there are a few options too - you may need to ignore the car though. Reading has some, wokingham, Hilton park is right by terminal 5, or down by Cribbs Causeway but by then thats a pain to get to. M4 is well served to the point I wouldn't plan (but would still be surprised and a little annoyed at needing a splash and dash)

 

[GRiLLA]

Tebay Northbound and Annadale Water services are both getting SuperChargers so the M74 will become much easier when they arrive, can't do much about CPS being rubbish but we are just starting to see the networks like GridServe, Instavolt, Fastned taking an interest in Scotland.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I also think that’s because I stop more often Which is probably recommended anyway.

Indeed. When we drive go to the Alps to ski (a trip we've been driving for decades, and we are a LOT older now!) its much less tiring in EV. We make 3 extra 20 minute stops in EV (and an hour long lunch, but we did that before).

But in the UK my "long" journeys are typically without recharge, or just a splash-and-dash, and they are less tiring too. I had a regular journey before/after EV leaving at 21:30 and arriving around 23:00, all bar a few miles at each end dual carriageway (easy driving ...). Back in ICE I was fighting sleep for the last few motorway miles most times, never had that - not once - with EV. Noise / type of noise maybe. Or maybe reduce-workload for driver because of AP.

So for me its not just the enforced additional stops that improve arrival condition

From a 100% start it was 46% when I got to Heathrow after 112 miles exactly

If you think you aren't getting as many miles as you should might be worth installing a TeslaFi/similar trial and having a look at "anything else that is going on" that is using power. As an example, of a LongShot!, you might have isntalled an APP on trial which you have long since forgotten about which is waking the car at various times.

I expect you don't want to drive like a snail, but on journeys that are range-challenged, but not-by-much, it is helpful to have some data to know what makes a difference and by how much. For example, dropping speed by 10MPH might enable you to get there, and only add a small number of minutes (less than the hassle of stopping to charge etc.)

a lot of surface water on the M4

The one and only time I very very nearly ran out was torrential summer thunderstorms ... used up WAY more energy that that same route driven in the dry.

 

[WannabeOwner]

P.S. In terms of Stick / Switch my tangential thought is that when buying an EV (or an Hybrid for that matter) to spring for the longest-range / biggest-battery. Painful initial extra cost, but the reduction in the number of journeys that can be done without charging makes a difference, more so if charging infrastructure becomes increasingly overloaded.

I went from a MS 90 to an MS Raven LR (real world 240 miles to just shy of 300 miles) and @ 35K miles p.a. that changed my Supercharging from a couple of times a month to once-or-twice a year (for all my out-and-back type journeys)

I also charge to 100% if my journey is more than 70% of range - to account for rain / detour etc. Before then I was happy with my regular overnight 90% charge unless my journey was at (what I thought was) the limit of the car's range. That heavy rain incident changed my mind!

 

[Mrklaw]

P.S. In terms of Stick / Switch my tangential thought is that when buying an EV (or an Hybrid for that matter) to spring for the longest-range / biggest-battery. Painful initial extra cost, but the reduction in the number of journeys that can be done without charging makes a difference, more so if charging infrastructure becomes increasingly overloaded.

I went from a MS 90 to an MS Raven LR (real world 240 miles to just shy of 300 miles) and @ 35K miles p.a. that changed my Supercharging from a couple of times a month to once-or-twice a year (for all my out-and-back type journeys)

I also charge to 100% if my journey is more than 70% of range - to account for rain / detour etc. Before then I was happy with my regular overnight 90% charge unless my journey was at (what I thought was) the limit of the car's range. That heavy rain incident changed my mind!

I still think 'non stop max round trip' is my preferred yardstick to go by. I have a couple of 200 mile round trips where I don't want to charge in either direction as its only 100 miles, and no charging at the destination (and short turnaround anyway. My SR+ wasn't quite enough sometimes, needing a stop. So I changed to the LR which mostly is more than fine.

Long distance I'm charging anyway SR or LR

 

[israndy]

I have the 2005 Sprinter RV as my other vehicle, but as it's eight and a half feet wide it's less efficient than your modern VW, only getting 18 MPG, so I drive and even camp almost exclusively in the Model 3. I have friends who have a Model X for their travel vehicle, but the only thing that makes them better is the Free Supercharging for Life, and I missed out on that. Personally I would stick with the VW as I have used my Sprinter extensively, even treated it as a daily driver for years before I got the TM3. So nice to have all that functionality with you even if you don't need it, and at the high MPG you get seems a waste to get rid of it.

I consider ours useful even just parked out front in case we have a disaster or too many houseguests. We used the fridge to save the bulk of the expensive food in our fridge when our old one went out at the start of the pandemic. That was fun .

Why do you guys say MPG? Don't you guys use metric over there?

 

[interbear]

hmm I think I remember one trip in the wet and wind that took a lot more out of the car than I expected. Unusual but always worth being aware I guess. You'd expect the LR to be an 'always >200 miles' car.

Membury is ok if you're passing but if you're going down the M4 there are a few options too - you may need to ignore the car though. Reading has some, wokingham, Hilton park is right by terminal 5, or down by Cribbs Causeway but by then thats a pain to get to. M4 is well served to the point I wouldn't plan (but would still be surprised and a little annoyed at needing a splash and dash)

Agree, I knew there would be an impact of the wind and torrential rain on the range but didn’t expect quite so much of an impact. Now I know so can plan ahead. On alternative M4 chargers, I’ve used Reading and Wokingham before. Getting to the Reading chargers from the M4 is a right pain.