Disappointed with the D unveiling

[balabanshik]

What solution do you propose to this dilemma? I'm not criticizing you, since you do make a valid point, I'm just wondering how it can be avoided?

I don't have a ready solution for the current situation. Not at this point, not one that would make a lot of sense for everyone. The feeling that there is no solution is a big part of the problem.
If you asked me several months (years?) ago, I'd have, basically, two solutions:
1. Engineer the respective parts of the car to allow for easy/cheap retrofits. This is by far the most resource-intensive solution, but I believe that it would have been optimal in the long run.
2. Announce the features before they actually enter the factory (like with the D set of features), and give the few people with standing orders a chance to upgrade.
In the ideal world both solutions should be implemented.
As it is now, there is a noticeable number of cars/owners that are affected by this calamity. For every owner who feels wronged, there are, basically, two outcomes: either he swallows the disappointment and the implicit loss of car value, or somehow ends up with an upgraded vehicle. The former outcome is trivial (and more likely as of now), the latter is more interesting. Since there can be no easy retrofit due to the sheer amounts of parts/labour, either the retrofit is a costly affair, or the whole vehicle will need to be replaced. The cost of either option is likely to be significant. The question is, who is to suffer this cost? That actually depends on how valuable the owners are to Tesla.

Tesla does "build an awesome car, but also that their purchase experience is vastly superior to anything else you can get" (at least in my experience) but I also feel some disappointment with my car that is only 6 months old and doesn't have AWD which I would definitely have bought. But I feel the same disappointment as I do with computers, TV's, and other electronics that constantly get better for the same or even less money.

Two points here.
First, I have to stand with breser about the purchase/delivery experience not always being perfect. That may be a local property of the Seattle branch, but I have to honestly say that I had better experience buying a car from Lexus. Two canned emails from the DS who was otherwise rather distant do not make for a good delivery experience. At the time of waiting you don't notice that much, as you are too busy with the trademark Tesla anticipation, but then you read the forums with people singing praises to the wonderful loving relationship with their local Tesla branch, and you think "wait a minute, that's not quite how I remember it..."
Second, the point of contention is not the fact that the car became obsolete, tech goes obsolete all the time, but the fact that it did so in an unpredictable, unilateral, and somewhat clandestine manner, with no choice or exit strategy offered to the buyers. That's the short of it, there is no need to reiterate what was already said about this further up in this thread.

 

[brianman]

First, I have to stand with breser about the purchase/delivery experience not always being perfect. That may be a local property of the Seattle branch, but I have to honestly say that I had better experience buying a car from Lexus. Two canned emails from the DS who was otherwise rather distant do not make for a good delivery experience. At the time of waiting you don't notice that much, as you are too busy with the trademark Tesla anticipation, but then you read the forums with people singing praises to the wonderful loving relationship with their local Tesla branch, and you think "wait a minute, that's not quite how I remember it..."

1. Did you give feedback to Tesla on the employees that you were satisfied with as well as the ones you weren't?
2. Maybe I misunderstood, but if not... why did you go through Seattle instead of Bellevue?

 

[Tedkidd]

What solution do you propose to this dilemma? I'm not criticizing you, since you do make a valid point, I'm just wondering how it can be avoided?

Tesla does "build an awesome car, but also that their purchase experience is vastly superior to anything else you can get" (at least in my experience) but I also feel some disappointment with my car that is only 6 months old and doesn't have AWD which I would definitely have bought.

But I feel the same disappointment as I do with computers, TV's, and other electronics that constantly get better for the same or even less money. Sure, this is a much larger purchase, but Tesla is building cars how they should be built, like electronic gadgets, and as such we have to expect this.

I am also 6 months closer to the grave and I'll never get the past 6 months back. I had a great summer with my car but even if rolled off the line last week, this is all part of life. No use sweating the small stuff. That's how I look at it at least.

I like this thinking. It's what might drive me to purchase an X rather than wait for the much more appropriate 3.

And yes, after I buy a car the very next model always has features I wanted and couldn't get. (Current gripes: rain sense wipers, dual zone acc, keyless go) Oh well, I didn't want to wait any longer. Could be dead tomorrow.

 

[Auzie]

Many people don't seem to. I won't bother to look up "disappointment" in a dictionary, but it is, basically, a feeling you get when something you care about does not live up to your expectations. It is very definitely subjective, but let me put it in a story for clarification.
Imagine you go to a show you really want to see. It's a popular show, so there's a long line to get in. You spend several hours in the line, make a few acquaintances, discuss the show, all the stuff people do in queues. Then it's your turn. You enter the door and pay the $200 for a show (expensive, yes, but you really wanted to see this specific show). As you are making your way to a seat, holding your ticket in anticipation, you see that the doorman opens the doors wide and declares to the rest of the people who are still outside and have not yet bought a ticket: "Hey you all, just get in for free, the show's about to start". Do you still get to see the show? Definitely. Do you get your money's worth? Yes, you knew the ticket price and were prepared to it. Did anyone around do anything inherently wrong? Not really. Does the whole event leave you feeling backstabbed? That's ultimately up to you, but I would very much have an unpleasant aftertaste.

In this case, the disappointment is not in the new features, but rather in Tesla Motors. For quite a while, they cultivated the belief that not only do they build an awesome car, but also that their purchase experience is vastly superior to anything else you can get (at least in the US), and also that the ownership experience is unrivaled. Basically, their perceived statement was "we know it's expensive, but you get the best in everything, and we always have your back". With that context, the implied arbitrary subdivision of the owners into the more and the less privileged fells very icky. As I said, disappointment is subjective, and everyone has every right to feel and express it.

Sorry that you feel that way, terrible way to feel.

I could be wrong, but from reading your post it seems to me that the disappointment comes from comparing yourself to others, nothing to do with Tesla. The disappointment comes because others seem to have the opportunity to get a better car than you, or in your words the door is open for them for free whilst you had to pay.

Such thinking is bound to make anyone unhappy. So many people are simply born with much better genes and in far better circumstances than me. Maybe I should just end my misery and check out (sarcasm).

It might help to feel less disappointed if the comparison basis is the whole world population rather than very lucky few, select future Tesla buyers. In plain english, first world problem, usually not worth feeling as bad as described.

If that does not work, there are other ways to solve the problem.

Perhaps if we stop the progress, then future generations will be equally miserable and not better off, so no one might feel short changed with improvements that they missed out on.

Heck, I am disappointed as well, Elon wasn't game to do a full Monty on stage as so many had expected.

 

[Zzzz...]

There is another guy that ordered the same day as me, confirmed 2 days before me (I waited 2 days before confirming), but took delivery 5 days after me. He got the new sensors, I did not. My order was original scheduled for late October, but got moved up to Late September because I was close to the factory and they could tick another delivery off on their Q3 numbers. To add an insult to an injury, the exact same configuration is now $950 cheaper than it was when I ordered.

This is sad situation to be in. Moreover, paying 90k+ for car and not getting latest tech...

But I do not see a way for Tesla to avoid it without hurting their sales. If Tesla announced changes well in advance it would have caused people to postpone ordering of the cars.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

My car was built just before folding mirrors became a standard part of the tech package. I didn't and don't complain about that. It happens and it didn't make me regret my early purchase a bit. There is no possible way in which Tesla can avoid things like this, apart from jeopardizing the company's future by announcing upgrades months in advance and effectively going to zero orders. There is always someone missing out. If it happened to you, that's a pity, but no more than that. Go out and enjoy your car. It's still a technological marvel.

 

[lolachampcar]

What did LCK say about worrying about what someone else has, oh yes, the only reason you should be looking at what someone else has on their plate is to check to make sure they have enough.

This is very much a (rich person) first world problem. If you have ever tried to manage product change over you know (1) it is not easy to manage and (2) someone will always be pissed. Sure, you could design the car with the ability to define every possible feature before the first one ships and have the ability to upgrade all to the latest features. We actually have that now. I can upgrade my P+ to a PD by simply trading it in. It all comes down to cost and I think Tesla has picked the correct balance between cost, delivery and features with each and every move.

Lastly, for all those caught off guard by AWD and near 700 hp or even driver aids for that matter, there have been a steady stream of leaks from the factory about ALL of these items along with confirmation from Elon on several occasions. WE ALL KNEW MS WAS GETTING AWD and there are posts on this forum about the P++ rumors. If you wanted it, all you would have to do was wait.

All that said, I still want to punch myself every time I look at the $10K plasma TV in our guest bedroom

 

[Merrill]

What did LCK say about worrying about what someone else has, oh yes, the only reason you should be looking at what someone else has on their plate is to check to make sure they have enough.

This is very much a (rich person) first world problem. If you have ever tried to manage product change over you know (1) it is not easy to manage and (2) someone will always be pissed. Sure, you could design the car with the ability to define every possible feature before the first one ships and have the ability to upgrade all to the latest features. We actually have that now. I can upgrade my P+ to a PD by simply trading it in. It all comes down to cost and I think Tesla has picked the correct balance between cost, delivery and features with each and every move.

Lastly, for all those caught off guard by AWD and near 700 hp or even driver aids for that matter, there have been a steady stream of leaks from the factory about ALL of these items along with confirmation from Elon on several occasions. WE ALL KNEW MS WAS GETTING AWD and there are posts on this forum about the P++ rumors. If you wanted it, all you would have to do was wait.

All that said, I still want to punch myself every time I look at the $10K plasma TV in our guest bedroom

I totally agree, I can quote Garrison Keillor "Some luck lies in not getting what you thought you wanted but getting what you have...which once you have got it you may be smart enough to see is what you would have wanted had you known".

 

[JohnQ]

I don't have a ready solution for the current situation. Not at this point, not one that would make a lot of sense for everyone. The feeling that there is no solution is a big part of the problem.
If you asked me several months (years?) ago, I'd have, basically, two solutions:
1. Engineer the respective parts of the car to allow for easy/cheap retrofits. This is by far the most resource-intensive solution, but I believe that it would have been optimal in the long run.
2. Announce the features before they actually enter the factory (like with the D set of features), and give the few people with standing orders a chance to upgrade.
In the ideal world both solutions should be implemented.
As it is now, there is a noticeable number of cars/owners that are affected by this calamity. For every owner who feels wronged, there are, basically, two outcomes: either he swallows the disappointment and the implicit loss of car value, or somehow ends up with an upgraded vehicle. The former outcome is trivial (and more likely as of now), the latter is more interesting. Since there can be no easy retrofit due to the sheer amounts of parts/labour, either the retrofit is a costly affair, or the whole vehicle will need to be replaced. The cost of either option is likely to be significant. The question is, who is to suffer this cost? That actually depends on how valuable the owners are to Tesla.
.

I think you'd agree that option 1 is not feasible. For two reasons. First is cost, of course, but second is requiring backward compatibility. That would seriously hamper the engineers' options. Option 2 solves nothing. You're simply pushing the problem back to those earlier in the cycle who would ask why they weren't informed of the upcoming changes. If you go to the traditional model year then you either have to discount existing builds or reduce production rates in the factory.

So, it's a roulette wheel like many other purchases. What soon to be released feature am I missing by purchasing today? It simply stings more when you miss it by a week rather than a month.

 

[Jaff]

+1, well said!

Don't buy into anything of technology if you fear you're going to lose value in the current technology you own. Its the name of the game. Same with cell phones, same with TVs, same with anything that gets better and better over time. I don't ever put a negative feeling or statement towards a company due to it evolving and growing technology. After I get bored or the technology becomes obsolete for my needs then I upgrade. If you don't want technology to evolve fast, stick with an ICE car.

 

[balabanshik]

1. Did you give feedback to Tesla on the employees that you were satisfied with as well as the ones you weren't?
2. Maybe I misunderstood, but if not... why did you got through Seattle instead of Bellevue?

1. The feedback form had 3 grades, none of which had direct relation to what I'm talking about. I gave an honest 8/10 to the overall purchase experience, a 10/10 to my satisfaction with the car, and a 10/10 to suggesting Tesla to others.
2. I asked to, but Bellevue doesn't do deliveries anymore, at least until they move to a bigger place.

I think you'd agree that option 1 is not feasible. For two reasons. First is cost, of course, but second is requiring backward compatibility. That would seriously hamper the engineers' options.

Nobody was ever talking about feasibility, but I did say that the first option was the most resource-intensive

Multiple quotes by multiple people, all amounting to 'that's the nature of progress; don't sweat it and just enjoy what you have'

Ok... I'll try one more time to explain, at length, the nature of my (and others') discontent. That has been done at least three times on this thread already, so I don't have high hopes of this properly settling in.
Let's do this by contrasting the A-features (autopilot etc) and the D-features (AWD). My main point is that the rollout of the D-features has been done right, while the rollout of the A-features has been done rather sub-optimally.
So what's the difference between the two? Both enhance the car, both promise new spectacular possibilities, neither can be retrofitted. And that is ok with me. I do accept that progress does not stand still. I know that, say, 10 years from now (provided we don't have an Ebolapocalypse :wink: ) a mid-range car is likely to be in many ways better than my current Model S. That, indeed, is life.
Let's get back to the differences and see how the D rollout happened:

The announcement of the D version amounted to "if you order now, you can get an AWD Model S whenever it's ready". That divided all existing and potential Model S owners into two classes:
1. The existing owners, who already have a Tesla, and the non-owners, who don't have an open order/reservation. I'm bundling them together because they have a common choice: stay as they are now, or order a new AWD Model S if they want one. The existing Model S potentially lost in value, but not by much, since the front motor does cost quite a bit extra. That is unavoidable no matter how you introduce new features.
2. The reservation holders, who finalized their order. These, two, have a choice of cancelling their order or amending it to include AWD. In most, if not all, cases this will not result in them having to forfeit their $2500 deposit.
Both of these categories, furthermore, can make an informed choice, as they have been explicitly told of all the features and all of the associated costs.

Compared with AWD, the A-features can in many cases be classified as safety features, and that affects many aspects, from the car value to the insurance rates to peace of mind.
In addition, while AWD will just stay AWD, the A-feature list stretches well into the future, and promises new and exciting opportunities. Not having the sensor suite shuts one completely off from a wide range of safety and convenience features of the future.
All of that gives the A-list hardware quite a bit more weight, at least for me personally. Now let's have a look at how the A was done.
The announcement divided the existing and potential Model S owners into three classes:
1. As previously, the existing owners, who already have a Tesla, and the non-owners, who don't have an open order/reservation. They, again, can make an informed choice to order a new, more advanced Model S. The old cars lose in value, but this time it is due to the fact that the new safety hardware comes as standard at no extra cost.
2. The later reservations. These are the cars produced in late September and outfitted with the sensor suite. They get extra hardware at no cost, and the promise of new features down the line through software updates.
3. The earlier reservations. These are the cars that have not received the sensor suite. These guys are indeed unfortunate. Not only do they miss out on all the A-list features, current and future, they also take a very unpleasant car value hit (if I go and recreate my car in the design studio, it will cost about $1000 less, and have extra sensors and fog lamps)
Now we come to the main problem with the A-feature rollout. There was no choice, much less informed choice, about landing in either category 2 or category 3. The assignment was purely time-based, not even VIN-based, and came unannounced.
Furthermore, there is no reasonable exit strategy for the people who landed in the third category. There will be no retrofit of the sensor suite, even at the owner's cost (again, no choice). The only way to get a more safe, more future-proof car is to trade it in and get a new one, eating the significant difference (I guess 10% to 20% of the car's market price?) and having to go through the wait again. For a safety feature that now comes as standard at no extra cost, that is a dear price.

And that goes against a lot of the previous experience that people had with Tesla as a company. Tesla has repeatedly broadcast a message of "we got your back", a prominent example being another safety feature, the protective underplate, that has been retrofitted to all cars at no cost. That is the source of the disappointment. It's not the disappointment of not having the latest gizmo. It is the disappointment of being essentially spoiled by Tesla over the course of years, and then facing the harsh reality of "we got your back only when it's cost-effective and doesn't harm the sales".

I'll conclude with a number of disclaimer-style statements:
1. This does not make me resent my Model S or consider it anything less than what it is.
2. This won't steer me to another car manufacturer out of spite. Every model will be considered based on it's own merits.
3. I don't like iPhones and I definitely don't become hysterical when I no longer have the latest model of whatever gadget I happen to own.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I agree with your assessment. The rollout of the safety sensors was handled much in the same manner as the A/B battery implementation. Those who took delivery at the same time got A batteries, some got B batteries, and nobody was told that A batteries couldn't accept more than 90 kW while the B and later batteries could go to 120 kW or potentially higher. Owners were not informed, not given a choice. It was a lottery. Some got the newer part, others did not, even though they ordered at the same time. It was all based upon delivery date.

Tesla very well could have, and should have, delayed inclusion of autopilot sensors for a couple of weeks until this announcement. I feel for those who did not receive the sensors while those who took delivery earlier did get them, all because of the build date of their car which is something totally out of the customer's control. Information is power, and Tesla should have communicated these changes if they were unwilling to hold the new features until an announcement was made. What did Tesla think, that nobody would notice these new sensors?

I do not have a complaint because I've been driving my car since August 2013. But if I was on the cusp of this kind of change, and someone who got their car at the same time or earlier than I did with sensors and I did not, I would not be happy. Furthermore, when customers asked about the sensors some were told that it was due to EU requirements - which we now know was not the real reason. In some circles that's called a lie. That is not how a company like Tesla should handle a rollout. It's disrespectful to its customers and hurts its reputation.

This is the 2nd time now that Tesla has done something like this, as noted previously with the A/B battery switchover. There were so many complaints about that, but apparently the concerns of owners has fallen upon deaf ears because Tesla has again repeated the same set of circumstances that is upsetting owners.

 

[brianman]

1. The feedback form had 3 grades, none of which had direct relation to what I'm talking about. I gave an honest 8/10 to the overall purchase experience, a 10/10 to my satisfaction with the car, and a 10/10 to suggesting Tesla to others.

Point of clarification: I mean emailing ownership, talking to the manager, etc. rather than a cookie cutter form.

- - - Updated - - -

Let's do this by contrasting the A-features (autopilot etc) and the D-features (AWD). My main point is that the rollout of the D-features has been done right, while the rollout of the A-features has been done rather sub-optimally.

Fair assessment.

 

[redi]

It's disrespectful to its customers.

Good points and a manageable problem I would think.

However, I have not seen much evidence that the above snip is of any particular concern to the leadership, sales, and marketing @ Tesla, unfortunately. They are very responsive to protecting their position in the public eye and the wider audience of potential new customers. The fan base and car owners keep the enthusiam high, but it seems to end there as any consious effort.

 

[Shumdit]

Not when your car becomes obsolete after a few months! This is a 180° difference in a very short amount of time.
Don't get me wrong, i loved the unveiling and loved the progress and i can't wait to see the stock value tomorrow.... But as a current owner, something doesn't feel right.

How did you love that stock value the day after? :tongue:

This is why I don't trust the stock market

- - - Updated - - -

I agree with your assessment. The rollout of the safety sensors was handled much in the same manner as the A/B battery implementation. Those who took delivery at the same time got A batteries, some got B batteries, and nobody was told that A batteries couldn't accept more than 90 kW while the B and later batteries could go to 120 kW or potentially higher. Owners were not informed, not given a choice. It was a lottery. Some got the newer part, others did not, even though they ordered at the same time. It was all based upon delivery date.

Tesla very well could have, and should have, delayed inclusion of autopilot sensors for a couple of weeks until this announcement. I feel for those who did not receive the sensors while those who took delivery earlier did get them, all because of the build date of their car which is something totally out of the customer's control. Information is power, and Tesla should have communicated these changes if they were unwilling to hold the new features until an announcement was made. What did Tesla think, that nobody would notice these new sensors?

I do not have a complaint because I've been driving my car since August 2013. But if I was on the cusp of this kind of change, and someone who got their car at the same time or earlier than I did with sensors and I did not, I would not be happy. Furthermore, when customers asked about the sensors some were told that it was due to EU requirements - which we now know was not the real reason. In some circles that's called a lie. That is not how a company like Tesla should handle a rollout. It's disrespectful to its customers and hurts its reputation.

This is the 2nd time now that Tesla has done something like this, as noted previously with the A/B battery switchover. There were so many complaints about that, but apparently the concerns of owners has fallen upon deaf ears because Tesla has again repeated the same set of circumstances that is upsetting owners.

I agree that this is one "downside" compared to the conventional model year method used by most manufacturers. If you buy a 2014 in August of 2014 you know there is a possibility the 2015 model will have upgrades. With Tesla you can take delivery on Jan. 20 and they make major upgrades or revisions on Jan. 21.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Good points and a manageable problem I would think.

However, I have not seen much evidence that the above snip is of any particular concern to the leadership, sales, and marketing @ Tesla, unfortunately. They are very responsive to protecting their position in the public eye and the wider audience of potential new customers. The fan base and car owners keep the enthusiam high, but it seems to end there as any consious effort.

It's unavoidable that some people are going to be upset. A simple solution, in my opinion, is to not ship things before they are announced and before customers have the option to make a choice. Apple typically doesn't announce anything until the product is ready, or very close to ready. Either way, Apple makes it clear when new products with new features can be ordered. Customers are generally on the same page.

Another option would be for Tesla to adhere to model years, that way everyone knows and expects that what's coming next year will be better/improved/different. No surprises. I think what ticks off some folks is the feeling of randomness - some got it, some didn't - which then leads to a feeling of helplessness when you just spent north of $90,000 on a car. Many customers doubled or tripled what they've spent on previous vehicles, and to feel like you missed this feature because your car was built the day before the switchover and before the other guy who just took delivery with you, that's not a good feeling at all.

Shipping some cars with sensors and others without, then telling your service centers and delivery specialists to keep quiet unless specifically asked, feels shady. Tesla can and should do better. It all comes from the top, in my opinion. There is definitely a problem with Tesla's product rollout strategy.

How did you love that stock value the day after? :tongue:

This is why I don't trust the stock market

If you are an investor, you were probably looking for news about Model X. That moves the product roadmap forward. You are not looking for yet another ridiculously expensive Model S that a minority of owners are going to buy, and that does little to differentiate the product mix. P85D does not help Tesla get to its mass market, affordable car. I know why Tesla did it... they needed beta testers for the Model X drivetrain. Add a few nice bells and whistles with a cherry on top so that it doesn't feel like a beta test, so people will plunk down north of $120k, and Tesla gets to have its cake and eat it, too. At the expense of owners who may have trouble with the new design. This is all just me overthinking things, I'm sure, but I no longer trust Tesla as much as I used to. I feel ulterior motives are at work. Just my gut feeling.

 

[randrave]

My first post, so please forgive it I screw up any of the forum conventions.

As someone who has been lurking for two years waiting for the long-rumored AWD announcement, I am a little surprised people have been so shocked about the safety features and the dual drive. I'm just your average fan, and it was pretty obvious to me that the development of the X would bring a lot of new features to the S, particularly for safety issues that are more pertinent to the SUV buyer.

That said, I completely understand where the September buyers are coming from. What happened to them, quite frankly, sucks.

But here's the thing -- if you're going to complain about what Tesla did, you have to suggest an alternative way for Tesla to launch major upgrades to the product line without taking a hit on new orders. As people here have posted out, if Tesla makes an announcement that BIG THINGS are coming, they might as well shut the factories down until the new innovations are ready.

Plus, even if you could figure that out, you're left with an unsolvable dilemma -- someone is ALWAYS going to be last. Regardless of when the announcement comes, there's going to be somebody who just got delivery of the "now-outdated" model. Always. And they're going to be just as ticked off as the September buyers are.

 

[redi]

they needed beta testers for the Model X drivetrain. Add a few nice bells and whistles with a cherry on top so that it doesn't feel like a beta test, so people will plunk down north of $120k, and Tesla gets to have its cake and eat it, too. At the expense of owners who may have trouble with the new design. This is all just me overthinking things, I'm sure, but I no longer trust Tesla as much as I used to. I feel ulterior motives are at work. Just my gut feeling.

I think your are right on it.

1. With the D launch, the X drivetrain would be well debugged by the time its shipping, leaving only other minor niggles with the rest of the X to arise.

2. The S is pretty well sorted now the D variant limits the hardware design bugs to the drivetrain only and to some degree to the software driver aid system

3. As a result, the features of the driver aids/autopilot will be tested and frozen until well after the X ships. I wouldn't be looking for any more "magical features" from autopilot until well past the X launch and at least a few feedback loops from the beta testers.

 

[Kbsilver]

Many people don't seem to. I won't bother to look up "disappointment" in a dictionary, but it is, basically, a feeling you get when something you care about does not live up to your expectations. It is very definitely subjective, but let me put it in a story for clarification.
Imagine you go to a show you really want to see. It's a popular show, so there's a long line to get in. You spend several hours in the line, make a few acquaintances, discuss the show, all the stuff people do in queues. Then it's your turn. You enter the door and pay the $200 for a show (expensive, yes, but you really wanted to see this specific show). As you are making your way to a seat, holding your ticket in anticipation, you see that the doorman opens the doors wide and declares to the rest of the people who are still outside and have not yet bought a ticket: "Hey you all, just get in for free, the show's about to start". Do you still get to see the show? Definitely. Do you get your money's worth? Yes, you knew the ticket price and were prepared to it. Did anyone around do anything inherently wrong? Not really. Does the whole event leave you feeling backstabbed? That's ultimately up to you, but I would very much have an unpleasant aftertaste..

I would say this is not a fair comparison. A more accurate analogy would be those people that got in at the end paid for their tickets, but got a free bag of popcorn on the way in. So ALL the people paid for the show, saw the show, but a small percentage got something extra for free. Doesn't this happen all the time in life?

 

[green1]

No, what happened to the September buyers is that they got exactly what they ordered, for exactly the price they agreed to pay. That doesn't suck, that's actually really good. The fact that someone else got a little bit extra does not in any way diminish what they got, and they have zero right to complain.

These people are not complaining because something bad happened to them, because it didn't. They are complaining that something good happened to someone else. This is never a valid complaint, ever. This is whining that we expect from toddlers, adults are supposed to be more enlightened than this.

I say it again. Nothing bad happened to you. Something good happened to someone else. This is completely different. You should be happy for the others instead of being miserable for yourself. Jealously of this level is quite unbecoming, and following any of your suggestions, or claiming that anything bad had happened would make society a worse place rather than a better one.