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Disappointed with the D unveiling

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If there is a good way around this without resorting to model years I'd love to hear it.

Agreed. And "model years" is not a good way around this, which I know you are not suggesting but others are. I have read may recommendations and so far all recommendations I have read are seriously flawed. I just don't think there are any good solutions. No matter what, people will be upset when missing out on new features. Of course, mistakes were made with this rollout, and things could have been done better by Tesla, but solving those mistakes and doing things better won't change the fundamental problem at the core of this issue. At least that's how I see it.
 
So the guy drives the car for 1,000 miles and is surprised the value went down?

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It's a hard thing, getting it all right. Tesla should be commended for the constant innovation, and that's one of the things that attracted all of us to these very pricey cars in the first place. That said, as many have mentioned previously: Tesla bungled the Autopilot rollout.

- They were scrambling to recover from the factory shutdown and delayed restart, and were scrambling to get cars delivered for Q3 end.
- They installed the new steering wheel with reversed stalks in a few cars WITHOUT the Autopilot and then started adding the sensors very shortly thereafter. This led some to believe they were getting or did get "new features" when in reality they didn't.
- Cars hit the ground with mysterious new partially-activated hardware, and personnel on the ground were either uninformed or (in my experience) told not to say anything but "nothing has been announced."
- Customers were not able to get information on presence/absence of this hardware on soon-to-be-delivered cars.
- Cars with Autopilot were interspersed with those without in the delivery centers, yet the differences were not acknowledged.

This point can be debated, but it feels as though TM was working very hard to maintain a frenetic pace of deliveries to please stockholders in this case, which ended up being at the expense of (new) customer service.

In contrast, the D announcement was better - TM announced new features, and when they would be available. Customers can immediately choose to order if they like. Existing order holders (next few months' worth of customers) are being allowed to change without losing deposits. Those who recently took delivery are left out, but it softens the blow some as nobody will have these new cars for a couple of months - at least you have the "latest" for a short while. Isn't that what everyone wants from their new whiz-bang tech purchase? To have the newest, hottest, "it" thing in their grubby little mitts for a bit? It'll be older tech soon enough, but we want to get a "little" time to enjoy having the state-of-the-art, right?

Perhaps TM should consider announcing new features 1-2x per year at relatively predictable times... especially if not able to retrofit. One of the things that has made the "no model year" concept a little easier to grasp is the relative upgradeability of older cars.

Call it what you want - TM has created a new model year, the "2015 Model S 2.0" with addition of the Autopilot (and AWD) features, along with the laundry list of minor updates discussed in the blog. Everyone else now has last year's model.
 
Call it what you want - TM has created a new model year, the "2015 Model S 2.0" with addition of the Autopilot (and AWD) features, along with the laundry list of minor updates discussed in the blog. Everyone else now has last year's model.

Yes, true. However, no matter how hard I look, I don't see one person driving a "2015 Model S 2.0" and by the time someone is, I will have been driving my 6 month old for for probably another 4 months. I really want the new features, but I sure enjoy what I'm driving now.
 
Consider that the sooner they have these Autopilot sensors on actual customer's cars, the sooner they can start reviewing actual customer use -- and make improvements.

I suspect that's the reason it's already out -- to make sure that it's somewhat refined by the time the cars with the "Tech Package with Autopilot" start getting delivered in late november.
 
It's a hard thing, getting it all right. Tesla should be commended for the constant innovation, and that's one of the things that attracted all of us to these very pricey cars in the first place. That said, as many have mentioned previously: Tesla bungled the Autopilot rollout.

- They were scrambling to recover from the factory shutdown and delayed restart, and were scrambling to get cars delivered for Q3 end.
- They installed the new steering wheel with reversed stalks in a few cars WITHOUT the Autopilot and then started adding the sensors very shortly thereafter. This led some to believe they were getting or did get "new features" when in reality they didn't.
- Cars hit the ground with mysterious new partially-activated hardware, and personnel on the ground were either uninformed or (in my experience) told not to say anything but "nothing has been announced."
- Customers were not able to get information on presence/absence of this hardware on soon-to-be-delivered cars.
- Cars with Autopilot were interspersed with those without in the delivery centers, yet the differences were not acknowledged.

This point can be debated, but it feels as though TM was working very hard to maintain a frenetic pace of deliveries to please stockholders in this case, which ended up being at the expense of (new) customer service.

In contrast, the D announcement was better - TM announced new features, and when they would be available. Customers can immediately choose to order if they like. Existing order holders (next few months' worth of customers) are being allowed to change without losing deposits. Those who recently took delivery are left out, but it softens the blow some as nobody will have these new cars for a couple of months - at least you have the "latest" for a short while. Isn't that what everyone wants from their new whiz-bang tech purchase? To have the newest, hottest, "it" thing in their grubby little mitts for a bit? It'll be older tech soon enough, but we want to get a "little" time to enjoy having the state-of-the-art, right?

Perhaps TM should consider announcing new features 1-2x per year at relatively predictable times... especially if not able to retrofit. One of the things that has made the "no model year" concept a little easier to grasp is the relative upgradeability of older cars.

Call it what you want - TM has created a new model year, the "2015 Model S 2.0" with addition of the Autopilot (and AWD) features, along with the laundry list of minor updates discussed in the blog. Everyone else now has last year's model.

Now, that is a great post and highlights why the AutoPilot part went sour but the AWD part actually went OK.

I don't know if the 1-2x per year suggestion is something I'd vote for in particular, but I think it fits well in the pool of potential solutions that could help lessening the impact of such situation in the future. This is a difficult problem for any car manufacturer and car buyer, not just Tesla, but that doesn't mean there isn't great discussion to be had on how to improve. Clearly Tesla didn't do it in an optimal manner this time, especially considering the magnitude of standard features that were being added (basically a self-driving car).

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I wonder how these people will feel when Tesla rolls out autopilot sensor package version 2.0 that is also not a retrofit upgrade.

It depends on how well Tesla handles such a roll-out. Now, that doesn't mean everyone can be made happy always, but different solutions will produce different amounts of happy people. Some less, some more. I'm voting for solutions that produce more.

This wasn't one of those.

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Agreed. And "model years" is not a good way around this, which I know you are not suggesting but others are. I have read may recommendations and so far all recommendations I have read are seriously flawed. I just don't think there are any good solutions. No matter what, people will be upset when missing out on new features. Of course, mistakes were made with this rollout, and things could have been done better by Tesla, but solving those mistakes and doing things better won't change the fundamental problem at the core of this issue. At least that's how I see it.

You don't think there are any good solutions, yet you acknowledge mistakes were made. Why do you keep on insisting correcting those mistakes wouldn't have made any difference it beyond me. It seems like you are unable to see beyond the argument you made, even when you now acknowledge the mistakes. While the root challenge may be eternal (evolution of technology products), clearly different company policies have different results with regards to the number of happy or disgruntled customers. You make it sound like there is nothing a company could do better to make any real difference.

I find that extremely unlikely and if you were free of your predetermined point of view, I'd say you would find it unlikely too. It is just a very, very big argument to make - that nothing a particular company does on an issue could make any real difference - and common sense says there must be very limited number of things in the world where such an argument would fit, if there are any at all. Even if the solutions proposed seem flawed, claiming that there are none is just a very, very big claim to make. Especially so when even you admit there were mistakes made, so the execution as is wasn't in any way perfect either.

Basically you are saying Tesla's imperfect handling of this situation, with mistakes an all, still produced the best possible outcome that could be had in this world. That's how it reads to me. And it seems very, very unlikely to be objectively true. Feel free to correct me if I misread you or you've changed your mind.

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Tesla did make a mistake releasing the features early. If they had waited until the announcement you'd still run into someone who was called asking 'would you like to take delivery in a week instead of later this month?' They say yes and their car is produced the day before the announcement and they are angry.

Or Tesla announces they are making an announcement in a month and everyone cancels or delays their order until after the announcement. There will always be someone on the wrong side of an announcement

If there is a good way around this without resorting to model years I'd love to hear it.

There have been many good suggestions on this forum. Just because you ignored them or haven't read them, doesn't mean they haven't been there. There will, of course, always be someone on the wrong side of a technology upgrade, but many suggestions and even examples have been offered that can make a difference on the number of disgruntled people in such a case.

Even though being left on the wrong side of a technology upgrade can always sting, there is also the case of when that happens which affects how much it stings. If you get your brand new car without a major upgrade, while the guy taking delivery of his in the next lot (who ordered at the same time as you) does, it removes something from that experience. If on the other hand you have already had your car for a month or few, got to enjoy the delivery without such concerns, clearly the impact of something new happening is much less. So, time matters and thus solutions can be limited to those most impacted. For example, in this case Tesla new "old normal" and "new normal" deliveries were happening side by side - they could have offered something to those impacted in the form of information, a discount or, say, a discounted delivery refusal. Or they could offer retroactive discounts to those feeling slighted or vouchers for a center console or something.

This is why retail had price protection, returns policies, retroactive upgrades in some cases and all sorts of things to keep the customer happy through such changes. Surely there is a lot Tesla could do to innovate in this area, when they are introducing a very big standard feature upgrade such as basically self-driving car. They don't need to do this for every little thing of course, but this was a big thing and I'm sure they could have done something to acknowledge those most impacted. Gestures matter too.
 
From above, this is spot on:

"It's a hard thing, getting it all right. Tesla should be commended for the constant innovation, and that's one of the things that attracted all of us to these very pricey cars in the first place. That said, as many have mentioned previously: Tesla bungled the Autopilot rollout."

The "D" rollout was done well, as others have concurred.

How about this idea, an amalgam of some previous comments:

Future enhancements would be pre-announced (like with the "D" rollout) and then set them up for quarterly installation. Does this create model years? No. (But it would create 2015.1, 2015.2, 2015.3, and 2015.4 models....)

So on the first work day of January, April, July and October, customer-visible enhancements are installed. If they're not ready or not pre-announced, they have to wait until the next quarter.

I think this solves the problem. Your thoughts?
 
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Future enhancements would be pre-announced (like with the "D" rollout) and then set them up for quarterly installation. Does this create model years? No. (But it would create 2015.1, 2015.2, 2015.3, and 2015.4 models....)

So on the first work day of January, April, July and October, customer-visible enhancements are installed. If they're not ready or not pre-announced, they have to wait until the next quarter.

I think this solves the problem. Your thoughts?
It doesn't have to be quarterly, but it would work. One more note to that, as I see it:

Either of the two needs to happen:
1. When a person has placed an order before the quarterly update, but is scheduled for delivery after the update, they should be contacted regarding the implications, and given an option to change the configuration.
2. The announcement needs to precede the actual roll-out by longer than the average wait times, so that everyone ordering could make an informed decision about when exactly they want to order/take delivery.
Preferably both.
 
You don't think there are any good solutions, yet you acknowledge mistakes were made. Why do you keep on insisting correcting those mistakes wouldn't have made any difference it beyond me. It seems like you are unable to see beyond the argument you made, even when you now acknowledge the mistakes.

Because people would still have cars that rolled off the line before the changes were made and would be upset about it. This is a problem with all new technology. Clearly you must have purchased TV's, computers, cell phones, etc. and have had this happen. The only difference with Tesla is that their product costs about 50 to 100 times the costs of those other tech items.

It's not new to Tesla and no matter what solutions you propose, this will still be the case. Nothing can be done about it. Period.

Basically you are saying Tesla's imperfect handling of this situation, with mistakes an all, still produced the best possible outcome that could be had in this world. That's how it reads to me. And it seems very, very unlikely to be objectively true. Feel free to correct me if I misread you or you've changed your mind.

No. I'm saying the best possible outcome is simply not possible. I would like to be convinced otherwise but so far no proposed solutions that I have read would solve the core problem. I don't see how any solution can solve this problem but I'm really hope I am proved wrong.

I'm a realist and understand that all companies make mistakes and no company is perfect, including Tesla. You might hold them to a standard of perfection but I don't. I don't see Tesla as any worse than Apple, Google, or other technology companies. But, as they say, that's damning them with faint praise.
 
Because people would still have cars that rolled off the line before the changes were made and would be upset about it. This is a problem with all new technology. Clearly you must have purchased TV's, computers, cell phones, etc. and have had this happen. The only difference with Tesla is that their product costs about 50 to 100 times the costs of those other tech items.

It's not new to Tesla and no matter what solutions you propose, this will still be the case. Nothing can be done about it. Period.



No. I'm saying the best possible outcome is simply not possible. I would like to be convinced otherwise but so far no proposed solutions that I have read would solve the core problem. I don't see how any solution can solve this problem but I'm really hope I am proved wrong.

I'm a realist and understand that all companies make mistakes and no company is perfect, including Tesla. You might hold them to a standard of perfection but I don't. I don't see Tesla as any worse than Apple, Google, or other technology companies. But, as they say, that's damning them with faint praise.

Exactly. Sure Tesla didn't do the rollout well (releasing the sensors to manufacturing before announcement) but I also haven't seen an idea that solves the larger issue. Someone will always be on the wrong side of a cutoff. If Tesla wants to have some $1,000 off if you take delivery two weeks or less before an update fine but that'd cost Tesla $400,000 for 4,000 cars. That would pay for a number of employee salaries for an entire year. We know Tesla already runs too lean. They need to improve their communication and timing of announcements and rollouts, not the way they innovate and release updates.

AnxietyRanger:
I did read your posts and others. Thank you for saying I ignored them or didn't read them.
 
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That cookie cutter form is seriously paid attention to at Tesla. If you put poor ratings on it you will get a call back from them. There are at least several cases I've seen on this forum of people doing so and getting a call to discuss what happened. In my case I gave a low rating on the purchase experience and wrote a fairly lengthy comment. The next week I had a call from the Northwest Delivery Manager to discuss things.
Excellent. Glad they're following up on that stuff.

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If person A and person B pay the same $ for the same configuration, it's only fair that both A and B receive the same product for the price they paid.
In the strictest sense this is impossible because two objects (cars) cannot occupy the same space (in the production line) and the owners (likely) don't live in the same household.

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One way to prevent the "Osbourne" effect (aka shut down the factory until the new stuff is ready) is to announce the new stuff and immediately discount the current price.
And the guy that took delivery two hours before the price discounting will be upset and going to the media.

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There's no upside to person A from stopping person B from getting the extra, and yet that's exactly what everyone is advocating for.
What have we said about using such words? (Short version to catch everyone up: It means you're choosing to say something that's incorrect.)
 
In the strictest sense this is impossible because two objects (cars) cannot occupy the same space (in the production line) and the owners (likely) don't live in the same household.

LOL, ok, I should have said that both people receive their respective products similarly configured. But I hope most people understood what I was trying to convey.