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Disappointing Range in P3D. Is this normal?

Discussion in 'Model 3: Driving Dynamics' started by AtlasReardan, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. AtlasReardan

    AtlasReardan Member

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    I picked up my car a couple months ago, but it initially went into the shop, so I've just recently been getting used to it. My first Tesla and first electric car, so still learning.

    One of the things that has been kind of a disappointment has been the range I'm getting from the car. I have only been charging it to 90%, which results in about 276 - 277 miles of estimate range. I realize this is just EPA rated range, and there's a whole host of factors that can change that (just like in any gasoline car), but I didn't think it would be so dramatically off. In actuality, 276 - 277 miles gets me about 175 - 195 miles. Sometimes the estimate will fall at a rate of double what I'm actually driving (i.e. drive 30 miles and lose 60 miles of range). Seems like the energy usage is averaging out at about 350 - 360 wh/mile.

    Is this normal? And I guess I'm curious more specifically about other P3D owners that have the larger wheels, since there's obviously a little bit of a range hit associated with the larger wheels.

    And I see all the advice about changing the meter from EPA range to %, but that's kind of missing the point. I'm just wondering if this is the sort of range one should expect. When I bought the car, I figured a full charge would be fine 98% of the days I drive. As it stands, that might change to 80% of time. Not a huge deal, but a little more hassle than I anticipated.
     
  2. kbecks13

    kbecks13 Active Member

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    Hmm 350-360 wh/mile is kinda high. I typically see 280-300 on longer drives and maybe 320 around town unless i'm driving fast. Sadly yes it's somewhat normal for the P3D, the RWD car has much better efficiency (it easily hits the rated range) but can't go so fast.
     
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  3. jjrandorin

    jjrandorin Another BMW convert

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    How are you driving? You driving at 70-80 MPH? You have regenerative braking set to "standard" and not "low"? You have creep mode set to OFF? How do you have your AC / climate control system set?


    310 range would be:

    1. charging to full (which is not advised to repeatedly do)
    2. Using the 18 inch aero wheels (which we dont have)
    3. driving at 60 ish MPH ( Not sure the exact MPH on the recommendation for this but would NOT be the 75-80 that is "normal" on the 15 freeway when its not gridlocked where I am).

    If its going down 60 miles range during a 30 mile drive, thats almost 100% evidence that its your driving style that is doing that. You likely need to modify your driving style if you want to get closer to the range.

    (I have a Model 3 Performance + that I just took delivery of 3 days ago, but I have been reading all the information here, AND the huge manual which goes over a lot of the above).
     
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  4. TexasGator

    TexasGator Member

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    Does seem a bit high - I think lifetime on our P3D w/PUP is about 325 Wh/mi (2600 mi) but as you mention consumption is very dependent on speed, temp, wind, elevation change, etc what is your tire pressure?
     
  5. AtlasReardan

    AtlasReardan Member

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    Not totally--it's been really mixed driving (but I'm only coming up on 1,000 miles on the odometer). I have 12 mile commute to work with no freeway and numerous traffic lights. When I do get on the freeway, I'd certainly go 80mph if it's clear, but I'm in Orange County (SoCal), and there's often traffic that would keep it slower.

    Yes, I have it set on standard.

    Yes, it is set to OFF.

    I've pretty much left it set on 70 degrees on AUTO. We've had a couple atypical cold rainy days, and I've been playing with the seat heaters.

    As for my driving, I'll admit I'm not the most conservative driver. I'm going to be selling my Porsche 911 and making the full switch to the Model 3, and I didn't pay extra for the Performance version to drive around like a granny. But on the flip side, it's also not like I'm driving around in full maniac mode all the time...
     
  6. AtlasReardan

    AtlasReardan Member

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    I was just looking at this recently. The computer was stating something like this for the four tires:

    (42) - (45)

    (45) - (42)

    That was after a little bit of driving to warm them up. I suppose I should try to even this out up to the recommended PSI level.
     
  7. jjrandorin

    jjrandorin Another BMW convert

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    Yeah I hear you. I only have about 200 miles on mine. On my drive home from the Tesla Delivery center in San diego (I live in a city called Temecula which you likely have heard of if you are in OC), I was driving "around" 80 "ish". Its a 55 mile commute, and I lost about 80 -90 miles range. I drove straight to the temecula super charger since I ended up taking delivery sooner than I thought I was going to, so I have no appropriate charging in my garage at all.

    (even my 15am plug has my garage fridge plugged into it, and thats full of beer and stuff in the freezer).

    Anyway, too was disappointed in the usage (for me it was around 360 or so?). I did not play boy racer going home, but did drive the flow of traffic, with small "zips" of speed. Im coming from a 2016 435, not a porsche like you OP but my previous car was not exactly "slow" either... but the model 3 performance was different.

    I am figuring when i start commuting to work (which is Oceanside, around 35 miles each way) when I get off vacation and I get used to it, range / kwh usage will improve.

    Setting the cruise control, etc will help me stay under control I figure... at least thats what I am telling myself.
     
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  8. AtlasReardan

    AtlasReardan Member

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    By the way, I just clicked on the "Tesla Corsa" link in your signature--that looks like a lot of fun! Hopefully, with the advice here, I could make it to Buttonwillow Racetrack (about 185 miles away) without Supercharging 3 times!
     
  9. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Efficiency Obsessed Member

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    Assuming you have not reset the trip meters in the car, what is your actual indicated lifetime average Wh/mi on that?

    Do you have a lot of hills to contend with? That will generally hurt your efficiency, due to energy sloshing around.

    If you want better efficiency, try not to use regen (keep it on the standard setting though). Keep the meter below the speedometer as close to “zero” as possible, especially on the negative (left) side. Don’t use the brakes either of course!

    I would expect closer to 300Wh/mi. That’s about what I have been getting in SoCal with some modest climate control use the last few weeks (sometimes I turn it off for better efficiency though - it will make a noticeable difference to efficiency, even in SoCal). 350Wh/mi seems high, but if you’re using a lot of regen braking and a lot of friction braking you might get there with the P3D+.

    I think you can definitely get below 300Wh/mi with some adjustments, if it is a priority. You probably won’t get there driving 80mph though.

    Also driving in the rain will make things considerably worse, it really increases rolling resistance apparently. Just to keep in mind for those rainy days.
     
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  10. Gavyne

    Gavyne Member

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    Well there you go. You bought a performance car with amazing acceleration that is addicting as hell. You don't need to be driving like a maniac all the time to have reduced efficiency. Just launching it at stoplight like us Tesla owners like to do and taking over "slow" cars are enough to bump up on consumption.

    18" wheels get better efficiency, much better. Even more so with aeros on. You have the whole works, 20" performance, you will by default have less efficiency compared to others. That plus driving habit will likely get you around 280-300 easy. To get EPA's range you'll need to hit around 250 wh/mi. Your reading will be high if your drives are short, because efficiency tend to lower the longer you drive.

    To be honest I would say just enjoy the drive, you didn't buy a Tesla Model 3 Performance with PUP to cruise around like a Prius.
     
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  11. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    Dump the 20 inch wheels and get light weight 18 inch wheels, it will help see signature below, we have a group buy..
     
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  12. brkaus

    brkaus Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of it is distance. My Wh/mi changes significantly if I am driving short trips around town (highway or local) vs long distance.

    I believe some of it is related to conditioning the battery.

    I believe some of it is related to city driving and being the first off the light and looking at the rest of the cars in the rearview.
     
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  13. AtlasReardan

    AtlasReardan Member

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    Ok, just checked, and it's not quite so bad overall. But it's still 332 wh/mi over 951 miles total. The last trip was 396 wh/mi! (in the rain though). I have a couple of small hills where I live, but not that many to contend with. I rarely use the friction brakes at all given how strong the regen is.
    20181206_211141.jpg
     
  14. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Efficiency Obsessed Member

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    There are some additional I^2*R losses and perhaps motor inefficiency when accelerating quickly, but my feeling is that as long as the massive acceleration is not paired with using regen, you’ll still do ok. So you can accelerate pretty fast, just make sure you use all that energy to overcome rolling resistance and you don’t put it back in the battery (because then you take something like a 30% haircut on that energy). Coast!

    Of course you will do even better with Prius-like driving.
     
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  15. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    I try and limit my stop light launches, and just sit right next to the other car so I can hear him destroying his engine... the sound of those tin cans banging up and down in the engine block sounds like a junk yard tractor about to explode....

     
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  16. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Efficiency Obsessed Member

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    Yeah, you’re in the ballpark. I would focus on avoiding regen (glance at the meter a few times to get a feel for what no regen “feels” like) AND avoid the brakes, and I think you’ll be able to get to around 300Wh/mi.

    I feel like you can probably still enjoy the acceleration as long as the situation is compatible with the above strategy.

    But don’t crash into anyone. It’s not worth it. :)
     
  17. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Efficiency Obsessed Member

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    Has sort of been mentioned already, but just to be clear, the tires are the main issue, not the wheels. The penalty vs. LRR tires is at least 10%. But obviously you’re not going to be swapping them out, since they are great all year round tires for Southern California and have great grip. Seems like you can probably meet your goals without needing to swap tires & wheels.
     
  18. Camera-Cruiser

    Camera-Cruiser Fully Charged

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    I’m just over 1,000 miles and am getting slightly better 317-322 Wh/mi. I wish it was better, but I drive 75mph+ in the OC, traffic and safety permitting, but freeway miles. I can do low 300-290 Wh/mi if I try (it’s its own game some days). I got over it with my S, and just drive 200 miles days without range anxiety charging to 80%.

    I think your issue is the short commute. Battery is just getting warmed up and your half way to work, so you’re seeing high Wh/mi. So, change jobs or move far away?:)

    Maybe more efficient tires after you go through the first set.

    What I want to know is are your motors quiet? Mine are fairly obnoxious in the 5 - 35 mph zone. I’m going to service next week about it.
     
  19. AtlasReardan

    AtlasReardan Member

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    They make kind of a futuristic zooming noise when accelerating. I don't mind it, and I figured it was just the way it is. But, as I mentioned, this is my first Tesla and first electric car, so I don't have much to compare it to. I had a Model S for a week or so while they worked on the issues with mine, and perhaps it was a little quieter, but pretty similar. After I got mine back, I thought it sounded kind of weird going slow in the parking lot, but now I don't notice it--maybe just got used to it.

    I'm definitely not swapping my tires. I ran Michelin Pilot Sports on my Porsche, and my first impression of the Pilot Sports on the P3D+ is that they are really great. It's not like I've really put it through the paces, but so far the handling/grip feels excellent and I wouldn't want to diminish that.
     
  20. Glamisduner

    Glamisduner Active Member

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    Just for fun try driving the speed limit for a day.
    Also try to avoid regen braking. I mean brake when you need to, but instead of punching it, then hard regen brake, try to keep the meter where where it's kind of neutral then coast to your stop.

    Essentially, don't punch it because when you do, you almost always overshoot the speed you wanted and you end up having to take your foot off the gas to slow down, which in turn regen brakes, then you have to accelerate again.

    Regen braking is less efficient than coasting. Every time you have to slow down and then speed up your wasting power (or vice versa).

    Also if possible turn off the car heater it kills the battery significantly. I'm losing about 30 miles a day just running my heater lately. instead use the seat heaters and/or wear a jacket. For clarification, this is in the S I seem to have purchased instead of my 3.
     
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