Disappointing Range in P3D. Is this normal?

[golfpilot]

This thread amuses me. Why does anybody give a rat. You get a full charge every morning. Drive how you want, run the ac at a comfortable level, and enjoy! If the car doesn’t think you’ll get home it will direct you to a supercharger. Recharge for 5-10 minutes and continue on.
Then someone mentions they only get MR range. Lmao, you really think the midrange isn’t going to have people complaining about it only getting a reliable 180? These cars all run via the same rules.
Go drive your cars, there is plenty of range!!!!

 

[FlyNavy01]

All of my gasoline cars have met their EPA ratings even while going above the speed limit. Again, excuses. No matter what, there shouldn't be the drastic difference between the models. Aero covers adding 10% has been shown to be a lie and is nonsensical to anybody that wants to analyze it. All of that stemmed from an engineer saying it is "10% better". You would have to increase the aerodynamics of the entire car by 25% for that to create a 10% range benefit on an EV.

All of that said, I just installed 20mm spacers and am looking for a local owner with 18's willing to see if they will now fit over the rear brakes. The problem is the angle of the barrel, so the further out the 18's can sit, the more room there is for clearance. It may still be impossible, but I'd like to see just how much of a difference the wheels make. I'd like to see what 20's do to bring down efficiency of the RWD.

As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, I don't think that the wheel weight makes much difference at constant highway speed, and I have a hard time believing that the same width of the different tire makes a 25% total efficiency difference. The Michelins are specifically designed for low rolling resistance for being a more performance oriented tire. I have not seen enough data from P3D- owners to see how their experiences compare, but even D owners are experiencing the high Wh/mi. They don't have the stickier tires. Among the D owners, there seems to be a mixed bag between people getting close to RWD numbers and those that are like us P owners despite having 19's vs 18's.

Adding 20mm offset will likely cancel out any efficiency gains you'll get from the aeros. That is quite aggressive.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

These threads should be renamed to "man (re)discovers laws of physics" ...

Y'all forgot physics 101? Air resistance is proportional to square of speed?

you think?

Why the P3D+ gets poor range....

 

[Vines]

Gearing plays a big part in the ICE speed vs efficiency curve. Todays 7 and 8 speed transmissions do great at keeping consumption down at freeway speeds, but don't take my word for it. Science!

 

[Drizzle]

Gearing plays a big part in the ICE speed vs efficiency curve. Todays 7 and 8 speed transmissions do great at keeping consumption down at freeway speeds, but don't take my word for it. Science!

Once Tesla gets those fancy gear things worked out, watch out world!

 

[jjrandorin]

This thread amuses me. Why does anybody give a rat. You get a full charge every morning. Drive how you want, run the ac at a comfortable level, and enjoy! If the car doesn’t think you’ll get home it will direct you to a supercharger. Recharge for 5-10 minutes and continue on.
Then someone mentions they only get MR range. Lmao, you really think the midrange isn’t going to have people complaining about it only getting a reliable 180? These cars all run via the same rules.
Go drive your cars, there is plenty of range!!!!

The posts asking about range and power usage are exactly 0% different than people on ICE car boards asking "why am I not getting the EPA gas mileage out of my new BMW ?!?!?!?!?" Followed by people saying "I get XX over the EPA estimates, and other people saying "I have never even SEEN those figures!"

I have been an active participant on a couple of active BMW boards for several years, and we see those posts all the time. They are only SLIGHTLY less common than the "should I get the 6 cylinder engine or is the 4 cylinder good enough?!?" threads (the equivalent of which here are "should I get the performance version???").

Some people care about "MPG" or "MPGe" (power usage or kW per mile) and others dont. Add to that that, for many of us, its our first EV car and we just want to ensure that what we are seeing is "normal" or being seen by others (and that there is no problem with our expensive purchase), so I see these threads as normal, expected and comforting in an odd sort of way.

I dont "care" about the kWh usage per se, but I would like to know that my car is operating "normally" based on what others see with the same usage patterns. At least as far as the OP was concerned, thats how I read the post. The other posts complaining about not getting EPA mileage, and seeming upset with tesla about that /shrug.. as I said, no different than people complaining their 6 cylinder BMW doesnt get 24-26 MPG like the tests say, when they drive "normally".

 

[Drizzle]

I personally think it's way different. I can get decent gas mileage at 80mph in my ICE. In my tesla it gets exponentially worse as I drive consistently faster. This wouldn't be any issue at all to me if this started happening after 75mph, but it begins around 60mph.

 

[jjrandorin]

I personally think it's way different. I can get decent gas mileage at 80mph in my ICE. In my tesla it gets exponentially worse as I drive consistently faster. This wouldn't be any issue at all to me if this started happening after 75mph, but it begins around 60mph.

But your "bad" mileage in your EV at 80 MPH is likely still at least 1/2 the cost of Gas in your ICE, so....

 

[Drizzle]

But your "bad" mileage in your EV at 80 MPH is likely still at least 1/2 the cost of Gas in your ICE, so....

Definitely. I just dont think most people are going to realize that or care right off the bat.

 

[TexasEV]

I personally think it's way different. I can get decent gas mileage at 80mph in my ICE. In my tesla it gets exponentially worse as I drive consistently faster. This wouldn't be any issue at all to me if this started happening after 75mph, but it begins around 60mph.

You’re proving physics. Air resistance increases exponentially with speed. It happens with an ICE too, what you consider decent mileage at 80 mph would be much better at 70!

 

[Drizzle]

You’re proving physics. Air resistance increases exponentially with speed. It happens with an ICE too, what you consider decent mileage at 80 mph would be much better at 70!

Am I missing something or do gears in ice transmissions still benefit the vehicle here?

 

[Canuck]

This thread amuses me. Why does anybody give a rat. You get a full charge every morning. Drive how you want, run the ac at a comfortable level, and enjoy! If the car doesn’t think you’ll get home it will direct you to a supercharger. Recharge for 5-10 minutes and continue on.

Said by someone in California with an abundance of superchargers. Most of us have to drive a long way to find one -- it's not just a detour on the way home -- and with a low battery driving a long way to a supercharger isn't an answer, nor is public slow charging.

Tesla initially told us dual motors increased range. I'm convinced that's wrong and RWD cars get the best range. Then add to that P and larger wheels, no aero caps that add 4.3% to the already longer range of RWD 3s, in real world testing, and nothing can beat that range in a 3, at least in my view. I'm pleased that my wife can drive to/from our cabin bypassing the supercharger half-way that I use for my S85. I'm blown away by the low energy use and long range of our 3. Then again, it is like driving a go-cart compared to my S.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Am I missing something or do gears in ice transmissions still benefit the vehicle here?

Not really. The electric motor is very efficient at a wide range of speeds. It might help a little bit high speed but it wouldn't be worth the additional complexity.

Said by someone in California with an abundance of superchargers. Most of us have to drive a long way to find one -- it's not just a detour on the way home -- and with a low battery driving a long way to a supercharger isn't an answer, nor is public slow charging.

Tesla initially told us dual motors increased range. I'm convinced that's wrong and RWD cars get the best range. Then add to that P and larger wheels, no aero caps that add 4.3% to the already longer range of RWD 3s, in real world testing, and nothing can beat that range in a 3, at least in my view. I'm pleased that my wife can drive to/from our cabin bypassing the supercharger half-way that I use for my S85. I'm blown away by the low energy use and long range of our 3. Then again, it is like driving a go-cart compared to my S.

Tesla never said that dual motors would increase range for a Model 3. Many on this forum were insisting that they would even though logic said otherwise.

 

[mal_tsla]

Am I missing something or do gears in ice transmissions still benefit the vehicle here?

Gears benefit ICE vehicles because of how ICEs work. Gears would benefit EVs a little, but not much, not enough to make up for the compromises they introduce.


But if you want your EV to go 250mph then it might need gears too!

 

[Canuck]

Tesla never said that dual motors would increase range for a Model 3. Many on this forum were insisting that they would even though logic said otherwise.

Tesla initially told us dual motors increased range.

I said what Tesla "initially" told us about "dual motors" increasing range (should it make a difference if it's in an S, X or 3, based on what Tesla initially told us?):

Tesla Model S Dual-Motor Is Quicker, Has Higher Range Too: How Do They Do That? (UPDATED)

By the time the 3 came around, it was difficult to continue that allegation since it was proven wrong in real life driving. But that is what Tesla initially told us.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

Tesla never said that dual motors would increase range for a Model 3. Many on this forum were insisting that they would even though logic said otherwise.

Actually, Elon did in a tweet, and it was 3 specific. It was before the AWD launch. So, I like many people waited, thinkIng it might be like an AWD S, and be a 325-350 range sleeper, while being a bit quicker too. Then I test drove a LR, and it felt a bit slower than my S85, so I placed the order for an AWD and waited for it, but never read any data about it being less efficient. By the time my AWD car was about ready to ship, free supercharging was being offered as a carrot to get a P. I test drove one and was hooked.

I probably would have gotten the LR if not for Elon’s tweet and my own wishful thinkIng.

So tweets and carrots work.

Sometimes we’re silly rabbits, or at least me.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Actually, Elon did in a tweet, and it was 3 specific. It was before the AWD launch. So, I like many people waited, thinkIng it might be like an AWD S, and be a 325-350 range sleeper, while being a bit quicker too. Then I test drove a LR, and it felt a bit slower than my S85, so I placed the order for an AWD and waited for it, but never read any data about it being less efficient. By the time my AWD car was about ready to ship, free supercharging was being offered as a carrot to get a P. I test drove one and was hooked.

I probably would have gotten the LR if not for Elon’s tweet and my own wishful thinkIng.

So tweets and carrots work.

Sometimes we’re silly rabbits, or at least me.

I want to see that tweet. I'm surprised that Elon would be wrong about that. It's simple math, if your motor is already super efficient then adding another motor with different gearing isn't going to help. It works on the Model S/X because the induction motors that they use aren't as broadly efficient over RPM and load so you can gear them so each is optimal under different conditions.

 

[AZWahoo]

I find that using Autopilot steering/speed on the long stretches of my daily driving greatly improves my overall energy efficiency. Not as much fun, but I can pay a little more attention to my audiobooks and podcasts.

 

[Jedi2155]

I went all over the place with my order and upon learning about the AWD efficiency drop. I changed my order to a RWD then upon hearing about the FUSC, and issues with my RWD delivery I decided to swap to a Performance model.

As for my efficiency, I've put about 4000 miles on my P3D+ getting about 277 Wh/mi over that distance. I've also had 2 weeks in a loaner Model S 75D and put 1500 miles on that getting around 310 Wh/mi with the same driving habits which tells me the P3D+ is still significantly more efficient than an S.

 

[StanM]

I went all over the place with my order and upon learning about the AWD efficiency drop. I changed my order to a RWD then upon hearing about the FUSC, and issues with my RWD delivery I decided to swap to a Performance model.

As for my efficiency, I've put about 4000 miles on my P3D+ getting about 277 Wh/mi over that distance. I've also had 2 weeks in a loaner Model S 75D and put 1500 miles on that getting around 310 Wh/mi with the same driving habits which tells me the P3D+ is still significantly more efficient than an S.

Now adjust for the weight and run the same numbers.