TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Disappointing TOU Rates?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by coreconcept, Jan 16, 2016.

  1. coreconcept

    coreconcept Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    AZ
    I have had MS for less than one month and received my first electric bill which has 2.5 weeks of charging the MS. The bill was close to what I expected using rough math but I have been looking at reducing the bill. Below are the rates (excluding taxes and fees) associated with standard and TOU plans from the electric company. I'm currently on standard plan.

    Standard Rate:
    Service charge: $10.25
    $.126 / kWh

    TOU Rate:
    Service charge: $16.50
    On-Peak: $.169 / kWh
    Off-Peak: $.101 / kWh

    Since the standard rate is $.126 / kWh, I thought it was strange that TOU off peak rate is not much lower. This is from a CO-OP electric provider in Arizona. Is the TOU rate plan typical in other areas?
     
  2. BertL

    BertL Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2015
    Messages:
    1,598
    Location:
    Carlsbad, CA
    Are your AZ TOU rates the same all year or are your winter rates similar, but summer vastly different like mine are here in San Diego? (My off-peak winter rate is only slightly less like you see, whereas in summer for the 5-hours super-off-peak I have my HPWC charge my MS, it's close to 1/3 of similar peak afternoon rate. I also have two different TOU plans I could select from, one using a common single meter, the other requiring a separate meter for the cars... I didn't go to the additional trouble and expense installing the 2nd meter.
     
  3. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    5,062
    Location:
    Colorado
    I am across the 4-corners from you in Pagosa Spings, SW Colorado. Here are the rates from La Plata Electric Association, LPEA Rates. It looks like I have a higher service charge and lower off-peak rates. The standard and on-peak rates are remarkably close.

    Standard Rate:
    Service charge: $21.50
    $0.1256 / kWh

    TOU Rate:
    Service charge: $21.50
    On-Peak: $0.168 / kWh
    Off-Peak: $0.065 / kWh
     
  4. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Messages:
    5,043
    Don't overlook the service charge difference.
     
  5. coreconcept

    coreconcept Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    AZ
    TOU rates are the same all year. The times are different during summer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Your TOU rate makes more sense to me as the off-peak is half of standard rate and service charge is the same.
     
  6. coreconcept

    coreconcept Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    AZ
    Yep, not sure why service charge is more for TOU...
     
  7. nctalkinghead

    nctalkinghead Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    So the utility company can get your money :mad:
     
  8. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    7,019
    Probably related to needing more expensive meters to track usage based on time-of-day and systems necessary to monitor them.

    My co-op eliminated TOU long ago and has no plans to reintroduce. Flat rate 9 cents, all day, every day for small commercial and residential.
     
  9. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,496
    Location:
    Maine
    #9 ItsNotAboutTheMoney, Jan 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
    I remember someone from Florida asking about TOU rates once, and I noted that their utility had an option where you could pay up front for the new meter, which I think worked out cheaper after 3 to 4 years (depending on opportunity cost).

    As long as TOU/real-time is an option with pricing that assumes only a small proportion of customers will adopt it, only a small proportion of customers will adopt it. I wish there were universal real-time pricing, but I can't see it happening.

    Here in Maine, my TOU costs $1.64 more than regular service per month. It was $2.51 more, but a pricing change narrowed the gap on the service cost but narrowed the gains on the supply. All meters are now smart meters unless you want to pay a premium. But TOU only on the delivery as they abandoned TOU supply after a couple of years (sadly, since I had), probably because the ability to switch back made it pointless.

    Anyway, based on the OP's numbers they'd:
    1) First need to cover the additional service charge with savings on the off-peak electricity
    2) For the remaining use need a minimum proportion of off-peak electricity to make their average rate less than the standard rate.

    On-Peak extra: $0.169/kWh - $0.126/kWh = $0.043/kWh
    Off-Peak reduction: $0.126/kWh - $0.101/kWh = $0.025/kWh
    Service charge extra: $16.50/mo - $10.25/mo = $6.25/mo.

    (1) Minimum off-peak use: $6.25/mo / $0.025/kWh = 250kWh/mo
    (2) Let O = minimum proportion of off-peak use excluding minimum off-peak use in (1) above to break-even with standard rate. Then

    O x 0.025 = (1-O) x 0.043 = 0.043 - O x 0.043
    ... then a miracle occurs ...
    O = 0.6323529411764706

    How easy it is to hit that target would depend on the definitions of off-peak and on-peak and pattern of use.
     
  10. JeffVanEpps

    JeffVanEpps Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2015
    Messages:
    54
    Rochester Gas & Electric (Rochester, NY).

    SC1 Residential
    Delivery 0.035730 + Supply 0.0482025 = 0.0839325

    SC4 (TOU1) (plus meter charge 3.98)
    Delivery (all times) 0.038630 + Supply (off-peak) 0.0359492 = 0.0745892
    Delivery (all times) 0.038630 + Supply (on-peak) 0.0614822 = 0.1001122

    SC4 (TOU2) (plus meter charge 3.98) (customer charge for this one is 24.86)
    Delivery (all times) 0.048790 + Supply (off-peak) 0.0359492 = 0.0847392
    Delivery (all times) 0.048790 + Supply (on-peak) 0.0614822 = 0.1102722

    All schedules except TOU2 also have a "customer charge" of 21.38, bill issuance charge of 0.95.

    I see nothing to tell me when TOU2 is used instead of TOU1.

    TOU wasn't going to be beneficial to me unless I could shift the vast majority of my load to off-peak, which wasn't going to happen. (Model S is significantly less than 50% of my usage)
     

Share This Page