DrivingTheFuture
Member
You have everything you need to do this... just grab a laptop and have it open to tesla.com
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whitex
Well-Known Member
My point exactly. Calling it "production" doesn't make it so. The 30 to investors and board members doesn't make it production either. In mobile devices industry there is often a batch conversion for employees and yes, investors, yet nobody call them production. The largest such deployment I was a part of was 1,200 smartphones available to employees and bigwigs - nobody called the phone "in production" though, since it wasn't. 9 months later when the phone launched it had a better battery, improved industrial design, and way more capable software. And yes, an NDA came with each phone, along with the commitment to keep its software up to date and agreement to collect telemetrics way beyond regular customer data collected.
And that difference is what makes the first batch a "pre production" version. If they change anything worth mention from this car that is sold to Elon - or the 30 later this month - until it is sold to regular extern customers you may well call this first production for a "pre production" or "release candidate 2" or something. If what they produce now is more or less the same car that is sold to extern customers later then it is production.
So we have to wait until autumn to get the answer, but as it is now this is expected to be the same car, so for now we have to call it "production cars".
... and even if it is some changes between now and then, we will probably never know anyway
cdub
OG 2011 Leaf / 2023 Model Y LR
WRONG WRONG WRONG. This is all ridiculous.
It is production. See tweet about Model 3 passing all regulatory requirements. They CANNOT LEGALLY sell a vehicle unless it has passed those requirements.
The RCs are preproduction and cannot LEGALLY be sold. These can. Hence PRODUCTION.
Car #2 can be bought by someone working at Tesla and can then legally be sold immediately to party B. That would be illegal on a pre-production car.
You have to get an S or an X if you want a backup camera!
Even though US law requires all new cars from the 2017 model year onward to have a backup camera?
I would like to make myself clear. When I mentioned the hatchback, I have thought since the model s came out, why more companies didn't do this to sedans. I didn't realize that it cost more to make the car a hatchback- I actually, for some reason (which I think may be related to seeing so many European hatchbacks), figured it was actually easier / more cost effective to do than making a traditional trunk. I also didn't realize it would decrease headroom for those in the backseat (I'm short so it isn't something I notice I guess). When I read the initial reply and explanation, I changed my opinion. I am a realist & not quite sure why the reply had to start out with "you've got to be kidding" rather than just asking if I was aware of the cost / change involved in what I said I was hoping for. Attempting to teach is much better than being condescending right off the bat. If someone isn't willing to learn, then do as you wish from there.
The "hot hatch" style like the Bolt is simple to do, but the problem is the squarer the back of the car, the worse the aerodynamics. The trade off had to do with the aerodynamic design combined with the limitations of putting a hatch on that.
mmd
Active Member
Do you have a link/proof for this claim? Here, car attorneys are saying that pre-production cars can be sold if it is disclosed before sale and meet federal regulations.
Under u.s. Law, can a dealership sell a pre pro - Q&A - Avvo
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shrspeedblade
Rideshare Monkey
Even though US law requires all new cars from the 2017 model year onward to have a backup camera?
The "hot hatch" style like the Bolt is simple to do, but the problem is the squarer the back of the car, the worse the aerodynamics. The trade off had to do with the aerodynamic design combined with the limitations of putting a hatch on that.
I hoped my sarcasm successfully seeped through on that one.
Also, having driven one recently the Bolt is a really good car if you want an electric Honda Fit with good range, FWIW.
KidDoc
Member
It has a backup camera. All new cars in USA are required to have them now starting in 2016 I think maybe 2015.
Gah my bad the law was passed then, the requirement starts May 2018 per the magic google machine.
Gah my bad the law was passed then, the requirement starts May 2018 per the magic google machine.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Model S and X changes every 2 weeks, M3 is likely to follow suite. As far as the phones I mentioned, there was no visible differences, battery was better quality and slightly higher capacity, but you'd never notice. Industrial design improvement had to do with reinforcing some corners that were cracking in use, so again nothing noticeable to customers. The biggest difference was the software, which I guarantee you will change between S001 and first real customer. So, until M3 ships to real, non special agreement customers, it is a pre-production run, just like the phones.And that difference is what makes the first batch a "pre production" version. If they change anything worth mention from this car that is sold to Elon - or the 30 later this month - until it is sold to regular extern customers you may well call this first production for a "pre production" or "release candidate 2" or something. If what they produce now is more or less the same car that is sold to extern customers later then it is production.
So we have to wait until autumn to get the answer, but as it is now this is expected to be the same car, so for now we have to call it "production cars".
... and even if it is some changes between now and then, we will probably never know anyway
whitex
Well-Known Member
Care to provide some sources? Car #2 is going internal so I sincerely doubt it will show up on ebay. I would speculate that it is probably even insured by Tesla, so that it doesn't show up in any insurance salvage options either. Just like with Model X, once the first M3 shows up on ebay, that's when you know it's production. The first one MX's on ebay were listed at 2x MSRP, I expect first real production M3's to list for less, but still $10K+ over MSRP.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
There is only one production Model 3 at this point, what were you expecting?
Sorry. I was a bit naive going by the title and assuming there were more pics and less "who gets the first one and why", etc. discussion. I saw 6 pages and got overly optomistic. I haven't logged in in a while. My bad.
whitex
Well-Known Member
It may have the backup camera, but it may not be enabled in software yet, hence not used by the guy in the video. There is probably a reason why Elon didn't let people look inside S001. This could also be the reason to not unveil the configurator, because it may have to contain such disclaimers like "functionality XYZ will be rolled out over time, pending validation and regulatory approval" in case if the functionality doesn't make by the time time the first real customer picks up their car. Tesla uses this type of fine print to cover themselves in court for still missing features on S & X like auto-wipers, EAP, or FSD - "yes, you saw it in the configurator that backup camera functionality will be rolled out over ota updates, so cannot sue us for it not being there or declare the car as a lemon because we can't make it work (i.e. it came broken and cannot be fixed within 30 days)".
Gold medal for silliest post. If Tesla does not continuously deliver cars from here on, you can reply to me. Until then, if they say it's start of production, it is.Did he order it through the "production process" using the online configurator, dealt with his OA, DS, etc? Is he going to be servicing it at a a local service center to experience the production process? He ought to experience the full production experience, not just the VIN number and license plate (since there doesn't appear to be a place to put the front plate on).
If FF or any other manufacturer was to deliver the first and only production car to their founder and CEO, nobody would say that the "car is in production".
powertoold
Active Member
Wut, there are plenty of other reasons they don't want people looking into the car. Showing a backup camera on the LCD isn't that complicated.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Ok, replying only because you asked as there was no Model 3 deliveries today or yesterday, both workdays, and total cars delivered is 1 since last week, so I think it's safe to say "continuous delivery" is not there. Unless of course 1 car total delivered ever qualifies in by your definition as continuous delivery, then sure, you're right - gold medal for loosest definition of "continuous deliveries", and "production" while we're at it.
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I am not even sure that car 1 was "delivered" yet. It was just shown as complete. It may still get delivered on the 28th along with the other ~29.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Many would argue that automatic headlights or wipers, both implemented in older Model S and X are simple too, yet it took months to get the first one (and still turns on my headlight in fully bright sunny weather), and the second one still eludes Tesla to this day, so you never know. Just because something is technically straightforward, it doesn't mean it's quick to implement. For backup camera for example, they may need to implement camera drivers, video codecs, screen overlay/rendering, video scaling, etc - it's not as simple as hooking up an analog camera to an analog display like in the old days.
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