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Discussion: HW.4 Suite - Availability, retrofit, suitability etc.

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If Green is right and HW4 will be introduced in MY by mid summer (I'm not even talking about June), then we should be seeing MY covered mules by now, and line upgrade should start within a month. Those are major, major changes that won't start overnight and without being noticed. I'm very curious what S/X will ship in March post Investor Day, my guess is that it'll have the new computer but may not have all the cameras from the get go.
 
If Green is right and HW4 will be introduced in MY by mid summer (I'm not even talking about June), then we should be seeing MY covered mules by now, and line upgrade should start within a month. Those are major, major changes that won't start overnight and without being noticed. I'm very curious what S/X will ship in March post Investor Day, my guess is that it'll have the new computer but may not have all the cameras from the get go.
While he might be guessing I suspect he typed the dates wrong as he referred to 2022 definitely not. Think he meant to write 6/2023 definitely not, 6/2024 likely. To this I agree. S and X will happen later this year along with a slow release for Cybertruck.
 
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While he might be guessing I suspect he typed the dates wrong as he referred to 2022 definitely not. Think he meant to write 6/2023 definitely not, 6/2024 likely. To this I agree. S and X will happen later this year along with a slow release for Cybertruck.
Yeah, the tweet was from Feb 2023, so it’s gotta be 2023 and 2024.

I also can promise with 100% certainty that HW4 will not roll out June 2022. 😀
Come follow me on Twitter for more 100% accurate Tesla info.
 
So the latest Twitter stuff from Killowatts, etc. seems to be painting a slightly different picture.
Now (based on what the Killowatts guys shared for S and X) it looks like the current cars are getting NEW cameras in slightly modified housings (wider/different viewing angles perhaps), but no additional cameras. This means no big changes to the assembly line. The "additional" cameras MAY be for the Cybertruck and Semi only.
Radar is TBD, but seems like it could easily be on all the cars as could the new, faster computer. Heck, Tesla might even put some if that in the higher end cars only...seems less likely, but who knows?

Killowatts S and X
 
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So the latest Twitter stuff from Killowatts, etc. seems to be painting a slightly different picture.
Now (based on what the Killowatts guys shared for S and X) it looks like the current cars are getting NEW cameras in slightly modified housings (wider/different viewing angles perhaps), but no additional cameras. This means no big changes to the assembly line. The "additional" cameras MAY be for the Cybertruck and Semi only.
Radar is TBD, but seems like it could easily be on all the cars as could the new, faster computer. Heck, Tesla might even put some if that in the higher end cars only...seems less likely, but who knows?

Killowatts S and X
Are you suggesting that the radar somehow is already mounted on new production cars today, and they just do not "brag" about it ?

Should be relatively easy to disassemble a new MY and check, we kind of know where it is supposed to be located. :)
 
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Are you suggesting that the radar somehow is already mounted on new production cars today, and they just do not "brag" about it ?

Should be relatively easy to disassemble a new MY and check, we kind of know where it is supposed to be located. :)
No, I'm suggesting that adding radar to the new cars is relatively straightforward in terms of assembly-line and body changes and should be an easy transition. It is certainly possible that there are cars "on the ground" now with the radar but I suspect they have yet to be delivered (although it is possible a few will show up right as investor day is upon us). The S and X in particular look to be the first cars to show up with "some version" of HW 4. That does beg the question "Are there multiple variants of HW 4?". Elon indicated the Cybertruck would be the first vehicle to get HW4. Maybe the definition of HW4 is "additional cameras, high res cameras, radar and new computer". It is possible the other vehicles all get something that I'll call HW3.5 which could be the higher res cameras, No additional cameras, MAYBE radar and MAYBE the new computer? Later on the 3 and Y might get the additional cameras (perhaps with the Project Highland update for the 3 (late this year?) and some mid-cycle refresh for the Model Y (sometime next year?).
 
Sorry to disappoint,
Well to be honest i am positively surprised that the connector is there, that would mean that a retrofit would be fairly simple.

But the viability of a retrofit will probably still depend heavily on, whether Tesla would be willing to activate the radar function on cars sold without radar.

Also...If the new radar needs HW 4, it would be unlikely that they would be able to retrofit it.

Maybe they will be able to retrofit and enable the "old" radar, which would still be better than no radar.
 
No, I'm suggesting that adding radar to the new cars is relatively straightforward in terms of assembly-line and body changes and should be an easy transition. It is certainly possible that there are cars "on the ground" now with the radar but I suspect they have yet to be delivered (although it is possible a few will show up right as investor day is upon us). The S and X in particular look to be the first cars to show up with "some version" of HW 4. That does beg the question "Are there multiple variants of HW 4?". Elon indicated the Cybertruck would be the first vehicle to get HW4. Maybe the definition of HW4 is "additional cameras, high res cameras, radar and new computer". It is possible the other vehicles all get something that I'll call HW3.5 which could be the higher res cameras, No additional cameras, MAYBE radar and MAYBE the new computer? Later on the 3 and Y might get the additional cameras (perhaps with the Project Highland update for the 3 (late this year?) and some mid-cycle refresh for the Model Y (sometime next year?).
From what i have read, HW4 is not actually that big of a computational improvement, the big difference is the number of cameras it support, so if MY and M3 does not gain any extra camera's maybe HW4 is not even needed for the new camera's.

If the new radar needs HW4, that would suggest to me, that the radar offloads some of the calculations onto the HW 4 board or it has some custom driver chip for the radar, if not, i can not see why the new radar should not be able to be fitted on HW3 vehicles.

No matter what, i would prefer a retrofitted old radar over no radar any day. Just a question of whether Tesla will enable retrofitted radars. If so, they will probably only do it if the radar has been fitted and calibrated by Tesla themselves.
 
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Well to be honest i am positively surprised that the connector is there, that would mean that a retrofit would be fairly simple.

...
I was interested to see that as well. I ended up with the older, pre-Lithium LV battery and consequently the harness that went with that 1 year ago. It still had the radar connector, but it was for cars that had had radar in 2021 before it was eliminated mid year. It is a different harness than the one that came after, so I would have assumed they removed the radar connector in the new harness. Have to wonder what they were thinking when they left it in. Clearly, they will need yet another harness for HW 4.0.
 
From what i have read, HW4 is not actually that big of a computational improvement, the big difference is the number of cameras it support, so if MY and M3 does not gain any extra camera's maybe HW4 is not even needed for the new camera's.

If the new radar needs HW4, that would suggest to me, that the radar offloads some of the calculations onto the HW 4 board or it has some custom driver chip for the radar, if not, i can not see why the new radar should not be able to be fitted on HW3 vehicles.

No matter what, i would prefer a retrofitted old radar over no radar any day. Just a question of whether Tesla will enable retrofitted radars. If so, they will probably only do it if the radar has been fitted and calibrated by Tesla themselves.
I had seen some pictures of the board where they were different sizes. You can find these pictures online anywhere even you tube. I just want something to help or enable the Tesla vision as they had stated since they removed USS from a handful(several thousand) from the cars. I can't imagine taking delivery of a Model X or S at that high cost with no sensors.
 
While he might be guessing I suspect he typed the dates wrong as he referred to 2022 definitely not. Think he meant to write 6/2023 definitely not, 6/2024 likely. To this I agree. S and X will happen later this year along with a slow release for Cybertruck.

He did not mistype.

1677093352641.png
 
I had seen some pictures of the board where they were different sizes. You can find these pictures online anywhere even you tube. I just want something to help or enable the Tesla vision as they had stated since they removed USS from a handful(several thousand) from the cars. I can't imagine taking delivery of a Model X or S at that high cost with no sensors.
I agree, if they get the camera's to work something like USS, i dont care that they removed them, it's the order in which they removed the sensors and release the software that supports vision based distance measurement, that i dont like.

I would however really like the radar, where i live and drive we have fog a number of times every year (Today for example) and no amount of software magic can make the cameras see through the fog, the same way, the radar can.

And yes, i saw the different board sizes as well, this might be because the new board is optimized for cybertruck for example or it might be because they simply changed form factor.

I dont understand why they would chance the form factor though, for existing production cars, it seems the electronics on the "new" board would fit onto a board the same size as the "old" one, so why they would redesign the board, in a way, that would force them to also change the design of the car, to be able to mount it is not very logical to me.
 
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I agree, if they get the camera's to work something like USS, i dont care that they removed them, it's the order in which they removed the sensors and release the software that supports vision based distance measurement, that i dont like.

I would however really like the radar, where i live and drive we have fog a number of times every year (Today for example) and no amount of software magic can make the cameras see through the fog, the same way, the radar can.

And yes, i saw the different board sizes as well, this might be because the new board is optimized for cybertruck for example or it might be because they simply changed form factor.

I dont understand why they would chance the form factor though, for existing production cars, it seems the electronics on the "new" board would fit onto a board the same size as the "old" one, so why they would redesign the board, in a way, that would force them to also change the design of the car, to be able to mount it is not very logical to me.


I think you have to view the total set of changes here:

* Additional cameras in new locations (bumper cameras)
* New radar sensors
* Board changes to accommodate connections for above new cameras/sensors
* New wiring harness to connect cameras/sensors and board
* Upgraded CPU (from 12 to 20 cores)
* Heating elements on some cameras/sensors

So even if they could have kept the same form factor for the board, a retro fit would still mean that in addition to swapping the board you'd need to run the new harness, replace all existing cameras, somehow modify the bumpers to add the new cameras, add the new radars, fit in the heating elements, etc. It's just a lot of change with a fair amount of teardown of the car. They likely concluded this wasn't financially viable, and then why not redesign the board?
 
Well to be honest i am positively surprised that the connector is there, that would mean that a retrofit would be fairly simple.

But the viability of a retrofit will probably still depend heavily on, whether Tesla would be willing to activate the radar function on cars sold without radar.

Also...If the new radar needs HW 4, it would be unlikely that they would be able to retrofit it.

Maybe they will be able to retrofit and enable the "old" radar, which would still be better than no radar.

If the connection is already there, isn't it possible for the 2023 models to buy a replacement radar module and install it in order to have radar capability for HW3.

 
If the connection is already there, isn't it possible for the 2023 models to buy a replacement radar module and install it in order to have radar capability for HW3.

The Radar in radar-equipped vehicles was disabled by software updates.
 
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