Discussion: Model 3 and Y price drop Jan 2023 / April 2023 / Oct 2023 and All other Pricing Speculation going forward

[DL_Mike]

Who is eligible for these perks? How far back do you go?

It's not that hard. The price hikes were also abrupt, albeit smaller. Also, the existence of USS on the car is binary. You can't deny the people who bought at the highest price level and don't have USS are not only r easily identifiable, but also the worst off. If you bought at any of the Q3 and non-discounted Q4 prices, you get your pick of some perks that have an "on paper" cost of $3k-6k. So EAP, Acceleration Boost, a bunch of supercharger miles, extended warranty, and/or lifetime premium connectivity.

Further, you announce a guarantee that all non USS cars will have the Parking and Summon features restored with X months, with free retrofits if it proves not possible.

Without the above, I can't trust Tesla again as a customer because I have first hand evidence that they sold me a car that was more expensive than any version of it ever, failed to deliver feature parity with previous and future cars, and don't value goodwill (so why should I?).

What do you do about the guy at day N+1 who now becomes equally butthurt that he just missed out based on the new arbitrary line you've created?

You either bought at base price X, Y, and Z or didn't. The days don't matter. You either have USS or not, the days don't matter. This isn't hard. At best, it reduces the butthurt greatly amongst people who _just became your customer_. After sales treatment has value.

What about people who already paid for the features or services you're now demanding for free?

There's always supercharger miles, premium connectivity months, amd/or Tesla Shop credits. We know that stuff is marked up anyway.

Where there's a will, there's a way. Right now, Tesla is showing me they don't even have a hint of the will.

 

[DL_Mike]

Absolutely, This is how business works.

And not buying another Tesla after _feeling_ like you got screwed, is how customer behavior works.

 

[C-Bus Y]

You can now buy a new Tesla (after tax rebate) for the price of a similarly sized ICE Vehicle. This could send ripples through the entire new car market. Looking at a CRV EX-L AWD?...get a model Y for not much more. Wow.

Will be really interesting to see how this plays out for both shareholders and customers. One thing needs to change, Elon needs to step away or shut up, potential customers may look elsewhere just because of his jacka$$ery.

I’m a little bummed that a new MYP is less than mine purchased in Nov 2020 but that is life. Have enjoyed the car for over two years.

 

[DL_Mike]

I'm one of the unfortunate Dec delivery takers, but at least got $3,750 off a $65,990 MYLR.

Imagine, I didn't even get the $3,750 off, got no USS, no matrix lights, no mud flaps while in Canada, no improved cameras, and put in my order March to receive it in December, and they pushed me to take delivery ASAP with many phone calls, and I was in the position to wait until end of January. People telling me my distrust in Tesla is misplaced really need to analyze this from my point of view. I just became a Tesla Owner 34 days ago, and yet I have more remorse now than 34 days after any other car I've bought.

Tesla needs to make something, anything, right for me. Heck, just actually give me the parking and summon features you "promised", which I paid for. At least follow through on that. Instead, the app on my phone taunts me with a software locked acceleration boost that my car is perfectly capable of, but the boolean costs $2700.

How about this? Give me the Acceleration Boost for free until you give me my parking and summon features. That way, Tesla has skin in the game. As it stands, they can (and are) leaving me out to dry.

 

[tangible1]

What Choncho is describing is different from what I think you're picturing, "dumping" in terms of manufacturing and exporting/importing is mostly about protecting one country's domestic economy from anti-competitive flooding of a market with products underpriced relative to their own domestic market and often subsidized by the government of the nation doing the dumping.

China is probably the worst offender out there, I've dealt with a bit of this stuff on the manufacturing side where Chinese companies were dumping subsidized and thus grossly underpriced steel into the Canadian market likely as part of a strategy to put domestic steel manufacturers out of business while supporting their own steel production.

I think anti-dumping provisions typically result in duties levied against the offending company, I'm not sure about compensation for consumers but don't know much about this stuff aside from what I've understood in passing while working in an industry that was recently fighting similar stuff.

Furniture has been another hot topic here in Canada, where companies in other Asian countries were subsidizing furniture manufacturers and flooding the country with product priced far below what it actually costs to make. Sounds good for consumers, but it's anti-competitive at its core and can destroy industries within the country being hit by the exports. When the domestic industry inevitably flounders, the offending companies/nations are then free to increase prices and operate a borderline monopoly.


Anyways not speculating about the potential success of this, just providing some insight for clarity

The United States imposes a 25% duty (tariff) on vehicle imports from China.
So nothing from China is likely to make it's way here, Tesla or no.

 

[SizzFlair]

Imagine, I didn't even get the $3,750 off, got no USS, no matrix lights, no mud flaps while in Canada, no improved cameras, and put in my order March to receive it in December, and they pushed me to take delivery ASAP with many phone calls, and I was in the position to wait until end of January. People telling me my distrust in Tesla is misplaced really need to analyze this from my point of view. I just became a Tesla Owner 34 days ago, and yet I have more remorse now than 34 days after any other car I've bought.

Tesla needs to make something, anything, right for me. Heck, just actually give me the parking and summon features you "promised", which I paid for. At least follow through on that. Instead, the app on my phone taunts me with a software locked acceleration boost that my car is perfectly capable of, but the boolean costs $2700.

How about this? Give me the Acceleration Boost for free until you give me my parking and summon features. That way, Tesla has skin in the game. As it stands, they can (and are) leaving me out to dry.

I really feel your frustration. However, I don't think Tesla will do anything about it unfortunately. If they do, great! Just bad timing all around and it's not your fault. It's better to just accept it and move on - at the end of the day it's just a car and you'll replace it down the road when the time comes with something better.

 

[tonyz1]

Being unhappy and being irrational are not the same thing.

I totally get the frustration with poor market timing. We've all been there. It's indeed an unhappy thing. It's normal to be unhappy. It's not rational to blame individual companies for needing to respond to macroeconomic conditions in order to remain a viable business.


Honest question: What is your solution to this problem? What does a favorable outcome look like to you?

I think it's very rational to avoid buying from a company who does not offer price stability for their product. Cars are a different asset class than stocks or real estate - there are different expectations on price volatility. Why would I want to risk spending $10,000 more than necessary when I could buy from another manufacturer offering me price stability? Also, cars are fundamentally irrational purchases - I would've bought a used Mazda CX-5 if I wanted to by hyper rational. As for responding to macroeconomic conditions, they took the short-term profit maximization route vs. trying to treat their customers well to maximize long-term value. Maybe their long-term outlook is much worse than now - fact is CEO dumped a lot of stock and very little insider buying. My rational business decision as a consumer is to avoid spending money with them and also encourage others to avoid them to not reward this type of behavior in the marketplace. I would hate if the entire car industry to head in this direction.

As for your question, I think Tesla needs to offer something of value to the customers who bought in at the higher price before this move. Maybe limit it to just buyers of the USS-less cars or some other qualified category. Give out free FSD or free EAP or something like that I think can help them recover goodwill to show they care about their existing customers. The lack of consideration for existing customers who took a chance on them in November or December is the pain point here. There's a reason why there are protesters in China and irate new Tesla owners on this forum.

 

[flgatorfan]

Imagine, I didn't even get the $3,750 off, got no USS, no matrix lights, no mud flaps while in Canada, no improved cameras, and put in my order March to receive it in December, and they pushed me to take delivery ASAP with many phone calls, and I was in the position to wait until end of January. People telling me my distrust in Tesla is misplaced really need to analyze this from my point of view. I just became a Tesla Owner 34 days ago, and yet I have more remorse now than 34 days after any other car I've bought.

Tesla needs to make something, anything, right for me. Heck, just actually give me the parking and summon features you "promised", which I paid for. At least follow through on that. Instead, the app on my phone taunts me with a software locked acceleration boost that my car is perfectly capable of, but the boolean costs $2700.

How about this? Give me the Acceleration Boost for free until you give me my parking and summon features. That way, Tesla has skin in the game. As it stands, they can (and are) leaving me out to dry.

You took delivery knowing the USS had been removed and there was not a working replacement. Everyone was predicting prices were going to come down (though to be fair one or two argued the opposite) and you proceeded with the purchase. You got your car at a price you were willing to pay. Maybe they'll throw you a bone, but there's really no reason that they should.

Other OEMs do this all the time, they just call it the "winter sales event" and offer 5k customer cash and 2k above blue book for your trade.

 

[WhiteOnWhiteMY]

You took delivery knowing the USS had been removed and there was not a working replacement. Everyone was predicting prices were going to come down (though to be fair one or two argued the opposite) and you proceeded with the purchase. You got your car at a price you were willing to pay. Maybe they'll throw you a bone, but there's really no reason that they should.

Other OEMs do this all the time, they just call it the "winter sales event" and offer 5k customer cash and 2k above blue book for your trade.

A $5k sales price “while supplies last” is a whole lot different than dumping the MSRP of all the cars effectively by 20.5k. Not everyone was predicting a price drop so substantially. If everyone was, there would be no one upset because we would have all seen this coming. We expected some sort of loophole for Tesla to do to get a MY within the tax requirement, I honestly believe very few of us thought it was gonna be a straight MSRP dump.

 

[DL_Mike]

You took delivery knowing the USS had been removed and there was not a working replacement.

I took deliver knowing it would be a short period before they restore those features with Tesla Vision. Their words, not mine.

Everyone was predicting prices were going to come down (though to be fair one or two argued the opposite) and you proceeded with the purchase. You got your car at a price you were willing to pay.

Absolutely true. And my experience and their after sales behavior directly affects my decision for where I'll purchase my wife's EV next year, and my replacement in 4- years.

Maybe they'll throw you a bone, but there's really no reason that they should.

Customer retention and goodwill being 2 reasons. They may not be reason enough though.

Other OEMs do this all the time, they just call it the "winter sales event" and offer 5k customer cash and 2k above blue book for your trade.

They don't actually sell the car the same price they would have without the 5k customer cash, and its not uncommon to get more than blue book without the explicit sale. Nevertheless, we're talking about $13k if you compared with FSD, and over $20k if you compare non-FSD. Its getting a bit further from "$7k".

Nevertheless, I am not arguing that they must make it right. I am simply stating that my future consumer behaviour will be impacted negatively with respect to Tesla if they don't. No amount of you justifying Tesla's right to seek profit is going to convince me to ignore the sour taste in my mouth now, and in the future, especially if "a short period" ends up being never.

 

[Ray_R]

Most car dealers in my area were charging huge additional dealer markups on their EVs for the last couple years, and buyers were paying them. Now those markups are becoming much more flexible, if not entirely removed. You could consider these price drops the elimination of the markups Tesla was able to add due to previous market conditions.
I just placed my order for a red MYLR that qualifies for the tax credit. I was ready to buy a Bolt, but this new pricing is too good to pass up. We already own a blue MYLR and really love it.

 

[ucmndd]

You either bought at base price X, Y, and Z or didn't. The days don't matter.

Are you suggesting that everyone who bought a Model Y at a price higher than today deserves some compensation?

Base price of the Model Y has been at that ~$66k level for months and months and months. It's not so simple to just draw a line on price as you suggest. Demand and supply were fundamentally different 6 months ago, 3 months ago, even 1 month ago. Buying a car in yesterday's economic conditions at today's pricing is pretty have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too.

At the end of the day it boils down to a personal argument. Just change the line/cutoff to make ME happy. The rest of those clowns can suck eggs.

Where there's a will, there's a way. Right now, Tesla is showing me they don't even have a hint of the will.

True enough. I guess this just isn't in any way surprising for those of us who have been around a while, or anyone who was even sorta following the company prior to buying. As I said upthread Tesla has given people lots of reasons in the past several years to not buy from them. I doubt I will again. But this transgression doesn't even hit the top five for me.

 

[ucmndd]

A $5k sales price “while supplies last” is a whole lot different than dumping the MSRP of all the cars effectively by 20.5k. Not everyone was predicting a price drop so substantially. If everyone was, there would be no one upset because we would have all seen this coming. We expected some sort of loophole for Tesla to do to get a MY within the tax requirement, I honestly believe very few of us thought it was gonna be a straight MSRP dump.

Would you be in any sort of fundamentally different position if Tesla reduced prices by $1,000 a month for the next 13 months? From where I'm sitting it changes nothing.

 

[WhiteOnWhiteMY]

Would you be in any sort of fundamentally different position if Tesla reduced prices by $1,000 a month for the next 13 months? From where I'm sitting it changes nothing.

Yes actually I would be, I would be able to see prices trending downward and could make a decision on when I want to pull the chute.

 

[ucmndd]

Yes actually I would be, I would be able to see prices trending downward and could make a decision on when I want to pull the chute.

When you want to pull the chute on what? I don't understand. You already bought the car.

 

[WhiteOnWhiteMY]

When you want to pull the chute on what? I don't understand. You already bought the car.

And I could sell the car when it dropped in value to a point I was ready to sell it for. Now I’m forced to be stuck with this for the long haul. Not everyone buys cars for long periods of time, they ride the wave of depreciation and sell after a year or two

 

[LoneStarEve]

While I would also be gutted if it happened to me (paying $67k for a car that is now $53k and would get further $7.5k check in a year) to those thinking they will switch to another brand in retaliation, wait until you use the public charging network, it’s an absolute unusable disaster zone that will leave you standard and effectively make road trips stressful if not impossible so you’ll be back…

Everyone is angry when they pay full price for something that goes on sale the following week, but bear in mind that most of these cars are financed, by the time you have paid your 5 or more years of finance off the price of new cars may have gone up again and so will used ones.
If you paid cash and/or only keep cars for a year or two then it’s a punch. If you lease cars the monthly payment may not change that much and the residual value is not your problem anyway.

If you were planning on flipping the car though then it does affect you but I have no sympathy for you as your greed was part of the supply problem causing the inflated prices in the first instance…

 

[yerEVan]

Just put an order in for MSM 19” LR. I was going to go for it with the 12/31 deal of 7500. It’s on the truck and they assigned the vin while it’s in transit. the Devon,PA SC said they sold completely out of all Model 3’s and almost all on-premise Y’s. But have a truckload if not more, coming in the next week. So they have a lot of inventory in transit and i’m assuming factory.

 

[DL_Mike]

Are you suggesting that everyone who bought a Model Y at a price higher than today deserves some compensation?

Yes, anyone who bought at a higher base price, in the last year, should be compensated with something that "on paper" is worth up to ~30% of the difference. It doesn't cost Tesla anywhere near the sticker price to give someone EAP, FSD, AccelBoost, SC miles, etc. So "$4k" in compensation to these eligible customers who ask for it, will barely be a blip on Tesla's balance sheet, except in the Goodwill section.

Base price of the Model Y has been at that ~$66k level for months and months and months. It's not so simple to just draw a line on price as you suggest.

No, it's actually pretty simple. Ironically, it's simple because of the transparent pricing and minimal configrations.

Demand and supply were fundamentally different 6 months ago, 3 months ago, even 1 month ago. Buying a car in yesterday's economic conditions at today's pricing is pretty have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too.

No one is asking Tesla for a set of wheels. We're asking for what amounts to intangibles. Things that, post-delivery, cost Tesla next to zero, or zero.

At the end of the day it boils down to a personal argument. Just change the line/cutoff to make ME happy. The rest of those clowns can suck eggs.

You're free to perturb my words. We're free to no longer buy Teslas, and to inform other of our dissatisfaction and poor after-sales treatment. IIRC, the only people underwater from an base price perspective (not depreciation related) are 2022 purchasers. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. With my suggestion, there are no egg suckers.

True enough. I guess this just isn't in any way surprising for those of us who have been around a while, or anyone who was even sorta following the company prior to buying. As I said upthread Tesla has given people lots of reasons in the past several years to not buy from them. I doubt I will again. But this transgression doesn't even hit the top five for me.

Well, they're 2 for 2 on transgressions with me in 34 days of ownership. Not looking good.

 

[DL_Mike]

Would you be in any sort of fundamentally different position if Tesla reduced prices by $1,000 a month for the next 13 months? From where I'm sitting it changes nothing.

It changes for me, since I can see the trend and maybe trade in earlier, especially if the next batch get back USS or some radar, while mine does not. Not to mention we don't even know if they are ddone cutting. They did this in one day, what's to say they won't cut abruptly again in a few more months.