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Displayed Range and Seasonality

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by FlasherZ, Nov 18, 2015.

  1. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    Prior to Tesla introducing the % SOC option, all we had was rated miles. As such, I've gotten used to using the trip odometer combined with EPA rated mileage method. I've tried using just % SOC, but didn't like it. I can relate more to the number of miles (and the mental adjustment I have to make based on Wh/mile since last charge).
     
  2. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

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    I tried it as well but didn't like it either. Besides what you mentioned, I didn't like the fact that the SoC is more imprecise as it is only reported in whole % values, even in the API.
     
  3. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

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    I say ditch the whole % SOC thing and just start showing kWh. Makes sense, no?
     
  4. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    Not for me. When I travel, I think in terms of miles. Even if I have to do the mental calculation to reduce rated miles to projected miles, it's the right measure for me.

    On my laptop, I think in terms of minutes - I set my SOC meter to report estimated time left rather than the battery percentage because the percentage really isn't useful. Showing me the Wh still available in my laptop wouldn't help either.
     
  5. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    The thing about using kilowatts is that you still have to convert that into distance remaining. This gets tricky because the next mile might use anywhere from negative to over 700 Wh. Which is why the lifetime average won't work (assuming you're running low and need to know if you can go that next 5-10 miles). The Trip graph is pretty good, but probably the best way to see about those last few miles is the Energy graph. If the projected range is higher than the rated range, you have a better than average chance of making it fine. If it's lower you need to take steps.
     
  6. sillydriver

    sillydriver Member

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    This is a great idea except for the furor and complaining threads that will follow from it's being widely known that all our 85kWh packs really hold about 10kWh less. The Europeans will probably sue.:wink:
     
  7. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

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    No, you misunderstood. I said ditch the percentages, not rated miles. I agree that rated miles should be retained.

    Solution: place kWh remaining in the API instead of the cars UI. That way only advanced users will interpret and understand its meaning.
     
  8. tezzla

    tezzla Member

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    I mean no disrespect; but why do you guys track all of that information? I couldn't care less myself, I charge every night & drive every day, I really don't care if my range varies from 230 to 220. I've never felt that recording data (pretty much anything) has any real value.

    Do you guys record everything (ie: electric bill, water bill, poops per day) or is just car stuff? Thanks.
     
  9. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    If you don't know what's normal, then you can't tell what's wrong when you have a problem or see when it's deviating to do some preemptive maintenance.
     
  10. BertL

    BertL Active Member

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    I keep records when I suspect there may be a future need to determine if something is wrong, or when I'm just trying to understand what's going on. In my case, I did not intend to when I ordered, and prefer not to keep records of rated range and temps when I charge my S90D ...but a couple weeks after having taken delivery, and finding other owners that took delivery of the new battery tech just a couple weeks before me started to possibly have early range degradation, I started keeping records. I am glad I am, because without the data points, it would prove to be impossible to have a rational discussion with Tesla Service (and S85 Owners that don't seem to be experiencing the same thing. ;))
     
  11. sillydriver

    sillydriver Member

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    My own motivation is the fun and challenge of trying to figure out, decode, or reverse engineer the things that the company does not tell us (factors affecting range, autopilot learning, factors affecting acceleration, etc.). I've already figured out poops per day.
     
  12. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    I started collecting the data because I could, and at some point I figured I might be able to use it. In particular, I could look at things like supercharging curves, etc., to learn how much time it would take to charge.

    Then, I've used this data previously when a driver that rear ended my wife tried to claim she rolled back into him on a hill in St. Louis. He thought he could intimidate my wife because she was a woman and figured to make money because it was an expensive car, and when his insurance company called I told them I'd be happy to call the police and supply them with all the evidence -- that she did not roll back more than 8 inches and the car went from 0 to 4 mph without any power input. They agreed not to press the issue further (combined with the fact that in general for a rear-end accident, the car in back is at fault).

    I'm not working with the data day and night or even looking at it but perhaps once a month or so. I agree with you, I don't want to have to know the stuff, but I find the data valuable occasionally. For example, having the car's measured history of external temperature can be useful in other IOT applications.
     
  13. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    A few notes for this thread... over the past week my family and I took a trip to Florida. Several times (4), I took the battery down to ~5% and supercharged all the way back up, so I had a good chance to set / reset the boundaries of my rated range.

    One anomaly that I'll be watching: One particularly cold morning we woke up with 45 miles of range left, cold-soaked. We packed into the car, ran the defroster on HI for a short period of time to finish clearing the ice (with the help of windshield washer fluid), then headed down the road 15 miles to the Knoxville supercharger. During this drive, the trip planner graph showed an instant, vertical-line drop of 1-2% while I was driving on the Interstate highway - not because of anything I did while driving. Presumably the car determined that it needed to re-adjust the algorithm just a bit. I didn't take a picture of it, but it was the first time I had seen any type of readjustment occur.

    Temps were down to 27 degF. Never once did we have the snowflake appear with reduced mileage, even with the car sitting outside, 27 degrees, in a hotel parking lot. I did not pre-heat the cabin.

    Unfortunately, my data collection was broken for a little while and just fixed this weekend, so I've lost a month of charging data; it would have been nice to see this in my data collection, but c'est la vie.

    Arriving home from this trip, with ambient temps of nearly 35 degF, my 90% charge weighed in at 233.2, which is roughly in line with the linear regression projections of -1.5 miles per year. Last year's average on January 4 was 234.88.
     
  14. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

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    #54 apacheguy, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
    Off topic: How was your experience at the Knoxville SpC? I ask because last week we also took a road trip and had considerable difficulty warming the pack enough to accept a normal charge rate. Temps were in the 30s, preheated the cabin for 30 minutes, plugged in and was capped at 40 kW (with low SOC), and took about 25 minutes before we finally saw 72 kW. I expected the warming to occur much more quickly given the pre-condition, but my experience is limited.

    Edit: My bad, just saw your response in the other thread
     
  15. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    It started slower than I would have expected, but then seemed to ramp up quickly. SpC started at 92 kW, then ramped up slowly to 100 kW, then followed the normal taper:

    Capture.PNG

    (Sorry about the missing data, this is now fixed - streaming API goes away if the REST data isn't retrieved correctly - the batch of data you see in the middle is when I checked it with the app.)

    I was a bit frustrated to see a shopping cart filled with trash from people at the Supercharger. I had my sons take some of it to the mall trash cans, but on the return trip I saw the cart had been filled again. SMH.
     
  16. Denarius

    Denarius Active Member

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