Dispute Experience with Tesla Canada

[MexiCanuck]

Has anyone had experience disputing something significant with Tesla in Canada?

(All references are to reporting from Stats for Tesla app or Teslafi unless otherwise noted.)

I am very concerned about the state of my battery's health.

I'm not talking about my "expected range". My driving behaviour is such that I am a "high performer" in that regard. Stats shows my driving efficiency to be 110% and "better than 97% of users".

I am not concerned about my phantom drain rate. Stats shows it as 0.44 km/hr, "better than 48% of users".

My concern is my actual "rated range" on my TM3 SR+. My early rated range was 381 km. I have about 35,000 km and my rated range is now 353 km. That is a loss of over 7% in one year and 35k km of driving.

I have been diligent about charging per Tesla's recommendations, i.e., between 20% and 80%. I have charged to 100% seven time in 12 months in hopes of rebalancing the battery cells and getting better rated range displayed.

The Battery Compare app by the author of the Stats for Tesla app puts my rated range as "better than 2% of users". Yesterday I was on the phone arranging for my HW3 installation. The Tesla person confirmed the 2 percentile placement and said that there was nothing wrong with my car. "It's just the algorithms that Tesla uses."

I pointed out that the same algorithm would be used by all cars. I asked if I could modify my behaviour to have the rated range be closer to the median.

He suggested that I not let the battery stay at 80%, but instead let it get down to 60% or lower before charging. I pointed out that my daily commute is about 150 km, so my battery goes below 60% regularly.

He suggested that I take the car for longer runs to deplete it further and charge it back up to 80%. I pointed out that my putting 35K km on the car in less than a year is because more than twice a month I have a drive of 300 km or more.

This does not seem good to me. I would like Tesla to do something to get my rated range much closer to the median. I'm not sure what they could or would do.

I wonder whether anyone here has had a similar experience, had a favourable outcome, and how the outcome was achieved.

 

[MP3Mike]

This does not seem good to me. I would like Tesla to do something to get my rated range much closer to the median. I'm not sure what they could or would do.

I'm curious why you think they would/should do something about your battery when the warranty clearly states that they only cover failures and greater than 30% degradation. If they aren't supposed to follow the warranty terms, what terms are they supposed to follow?

It sounds like you are saying that nobody should get a below average battery? (Which of course isn't possible.)

 

[Lon12]

Tesla battery degradation at less than 10% after over 160,000 miles, according to latest data - Electrek
Based on these data plots for S and X I don't think you are that far off the expected degradation. Hopefully you see a flattening of the capacity decrease soon.

 

[03DSG]

I switched my indicated battery range to % from km's over a year ago. Best thing I did to self-control my OCD.

 

[MexiCanuck]

I switched my indicated battery range to % from km's over a year ago. Best thing I did to self-control my OCD.

Yes, I wish I could do that. If my driving was mostly near chargers I could do that.

Unfortunately, there is only one supercharger location within my driving area. I am often far from it so I need to know that I can get to either a Supercharger or a CHAdeMO charger. For that, I need to know the distance to the charger and the number of kilometres I can drive rather than the percentage of battery remaining.

 

[MexiCanuck]

Tesla battery degradation at less than 10% after over 160,000 miles, according to latest data - Electrek
Based on these data plots for S and X I don't think you are that far off the expected degradation. Hopefully you see a flattening of the capacity decrease soon.

Yes, I hope to see flattening.

I’m less convinced than you about how far off I am from the expected degradation. The scatter points in the graph have a wide distribution. Looking at the best fit line though suggests about 4% degradation at 40,000 km. My 7% degradation seems to occur at about 170,000 km.

 

[MexiCanuck]

I'm curious why you think they would/should do something about your battery when the warranty clearly states that they only cover failures and greater than 30% degradation. If they aren't supposed to follow the warranty terms, what terms are they supposed to follow?

Yes that is the warranty. I doubt that many people would consider it proper if their car showed 29% degradation in a year. I’m not suggesting that my car will have 29% degradation in a year, but it does seem to me that a car in the second percentile suggests a problem.

It sounds like you are saying that nobody should get a below average battery? (Which of course isn't possible.)

Yes, clearly by definition some instances fall above the mean and some below the mean. I would think that a manufacturer would want to identify those instances that deviate far from the mean. It seems to me that is what quality control is about and I would hope that a car maker with the prestige of Tesla would seek quality control.

 

[Sorabh]

Folks

Little late to the party but wanted to chime in with the whole degradation issue here.

The range on the car is a combination of Kwh left in the battery pack and the consumption (Kwh/km) of the vehicle based on driving habits. (Using the ideal range may produce a more stable number but it feels kind of arbitrary as well)

Based on this you cannot have any reasonable expectation to calculate degradation based on range because you dont know what the consumption value is.

In theory your battery can have 0 degradation but your rated range can go way down if you drive to school uphill both ways every day. (Bonus losses for the snowstorms)

Try and extrapolate the battery % levels vs Kwh used on your trip meter to see if it produces a better number.

BTW I had a pretty frustrating discussion with Tesla SC on this and they muddied the waters enough that I dont care about it anymore and will most likely only buy Teslas from now on

 

[Casmium]

Yes, I wish I could do that. If my driving was mostly near chargers I could do that.

Unfortunately, there is only one supercharger location within my driving area. I am often far from it so I need to know that I can get to either a Supercharger or a CHAdeMO charger. For that, I need to know the distance to the charger and the number of kilometres I can drive rather than the percentage of battery remaining.

km range makes my brain hurt, felt so much better when i switched to %, especially if you do similar routes, you get to know that a to b will be 22%, b to c will be 30%, must charge to 75% to get from b to c. Since the Km don't match the actual distance driven i could not figure it out, also a better route planner helps a lot.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Making a problem, where perhaps there is none.

Car is working fine and it is normal for these batteries to loose range during the first year or so, then maintain for a long time with only minimal degradation.

Please enjoy your car and don't get alarmed at relatively small issues.

 

[Struja]

Let me chime in with my 2 pennies. I would agree with the majority that you might be creating an issue, where one does not exist. However, if you do feel that strongly, my experience is you get nowhere with Tesla unless you threaten to sue and better be prepared to act on it.

I had an issue with Tesla that I felt strongly about, thought my position was a 100% slam dunk (had to do with a refund on the maintenance program) but only got my requested refund when I was on the brink of filing my claim.

As an aside...my feeling toward this car and company is sooooooo strange. I feel that my car is made quite poorly compared to my prior Lexus. I have had many problems with it, none with my Lexus. Lexus, as a company treated me like Royalty, Tesla treats my like the Court Jester and yet, to me, there is NO better car in the world than my Model S. I can’t ever see myself in anything else. In fact, it isn’t even close and even though I know the cars can be made better, the customer service must be made better... I continue to be a massive fanboy and preach the Tesla gospel wherever I go.

 

[alexhoff]

I've noticed the range adapts to your driving techniques. The more wh/km you use, on average, the less the rated range is over time. My car sat for awhile after an accident and the rated range changed, not the practical usable range.

 

[Vawlkus]

I’ve been monitoring my X since I’m not traveling much right now, and I’ve swapped up my charging routine.
Instead of my regular routine, I drain my battery down to 20% or so in regular drives, then I go for a runaround to drop the battery to single digits before I plug in to charge.
Doing that has helped reset my cars BMS and my range has increased a slight, but noticeable amount (I use percent). I recommend doing the same and seeing what the results are.