Dissing Tesla Reliability

[green1]

I think you ignored the huge gaping hole in the statistics truedelta collects. The average person doesn't look for a place to post if they don't have any problems, as a result the results are GUARANTEED to be heavily biased towards those having problems. He can try all he wants, but human nature is against his efforts.

CR is the only study I am aware of that goes after the customers and doesn't wait for the customers to come to them, this is the only way to get a representative sample. Anything less is flawed.

 

[artsci]

None of these ratings are reliable unless they are based on a true random sample of owners, with controls for bias. And as none take measurements that way it means none can be completed trusted. Reliable and rigorous research on auto reliability is very difficult and expensive to do, which is why no one does reliable and rigorous research.

Tesla knows how every car has performed, but they're not talking.

 

[brucet999]

I guess you don't know about Truedelta.com

Model S vs. LEAF Reliability

Sign up and you can dig into the repairs reported and add your car to the database (possibly lowering the reported rate of repairs).

It's free so no reason not to add your car to the database.

The problem, as I see it, with truedelta.com is that the sample is small and self-selecting. People who have few problems are less likely to sign up or even to find the site, so the data are skewed toward the negative.

CR, on the other hand, sends survey forms to all of their members and the surveys cover other things as well, so the sample is larger than either TMC or truedelta.com and quite random.

 

[kort677]

CR, on the other hand, sends survey forms to all of their members and the surveys cover other things as well, so the sample is larger than either TMC or truedelta.com and quite random.

that could be true but then the question would be is CR sampling size large enough? how many CR readers own a Tesla?

 

[vitaliy]

CR magazine: 180-225 range .... Reliability average

 

[Electroman]

I don't know anything about the reliability or credibility of truedelta.com but I can say with first hand experience since I have owned a LEAF and a Tesla, the LEAF NEVER needed any sort of service (1 courtesy service center visit after a year of ownership for them to be sure nothing needed attention and I had the car for 18k miles) .......
.......

I absolutely have to second this. With two (sequential) Leafs over 65k miles, I never had to visit the dealer except that Nissan forces us to do the mandatory battery tests at the end of each year. And that has been the experience of almost everyone I know in my office and friends - over 15+ Leafs. There has been one instance of AC malfunctioning on a 2013 model. Other than that nothing.

The problem with anecdotal data is that it's useless.

Of course. You are welcome to hide behind those phrases if it gives you the warm and fuzzy feeling. Leaf is an amazingly reliable car with one major fatal flaw - degrading battery capacity, that it almost makes the car useless after a few summers. While Model S seems to have solved the major sticking point for all other EVs - battery range and degradation - it seems to have serious problems in another critical area - drive train reliability - where everyone else don't seem to have any problems.

 

[tom66]

180-225 miles seems like a realistic range in average conditions with A/C on and travelling at or slightly over the speed limit.

 

[Spidy]

I want a FREE membership at TrueDelta in exchange for participating in the reliability survey.

This is certainly a initiative for people to provide data even if they had not issues for example when they are considering buying a new car.

 

[jeffro01]

Anything put out by SA regarding Tesla should immediately be ignored whether it has nuggets of facts or not. Either way, SA has done anything and everything it can to attack Tesla in hopes of making a killing on shorting Tesla stock. These "people" are borderline evil.

Jeff

 

[kort677]

Anything put out by SA regarding Tesla should immediately be ignored whether it has nuggets of facts or not. Either way, SA has done anything and everything it can to attack Tesla in hopes of making a killing on shorting Tesla stock. These "people" are borderline evil.

Jeff

you can keep trying to interject the short wars into this as some sort of excuse for the reliability issues with Tesla model S but the reality is that the cars are a bit behind the curve in "luxury car" standards.

 

[jeffro01]

you can keep trying to interject the short wars into this as some sort of excuse for the reliability issues with Tesla model S but the reality is that the cars are a bit behind the curve in "luxury car" standards.

Reality by whom? Reality by a website who has made a mission to see Tesla fail?

Jeff

 

[Electroman]

There are a bunch of trolls - 5 of them - who feed on each other and churn out these ridiculous negative articles, sometimes outright silly and stupid ones like the latest one on how the upcoming 2016 Volt will kill Model S sales.

 

[green1]

you can keep trying to interject the short wars into this as some sort of excuse for the reliability issues with Tesla model S but the reality is that the cars are a bit behind the curve in "luxury car" standards.

Average is just that, average. Not "behind the curve" will some cars be above average? Sure, some will also be below average. If you have proof that the tesla is not of average reliability, post an unbiased study. Until then I'll believe the only study we have which says the reliability is middle of the pack.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

LOVE that they quoted me out of context in the Drive Unit section of this hit piece... Not! This is now the third or fourth time. I'm a little conflicted about my pseudonym-bearing alter ego being quoted on the internets.

 

[jerry33]

Leaf is an amazingly reliable car with one major fatal flaw - degrading battery capacity, that it almost makes the car useless after a few summers. While Model S seems to have solved the major sticking point for all other EVs - battery range and degradation - it seems to have serious problems in another critical area - drive train reliability - where everyone else don't seem to have any problems.

I'd suggest that if Tesla limited the output to that of the Leaf, they wouldn't have drive train issues either.

 

[kort677]

Average is just that, average. Not "behind the curve" will some cars be above average? Sure, some will also be below average. If you have proof that the tesla is not of average reliability, post an unbiased study. Until then I'll believe the only study we have which says the reliability is middle of the pack.

I don't need any studies, I've owned many luxury cars over many years and the Tesla I've owned for over 20 months has been in for more unscheduled "emergency" maintenance more than all the cars I've owned over the past 30 years.

 

[trils0n]

I don't need any studies, I've owned many luxury cars over many years and the Tesla I've owned for over 20 months has been in for more unscheduled "emergency" maintenance more than all the cars I've owned over the past 3 years.

I'm sorry your car hasn't been reliable. However, reliability is based on rates of repair. Rates are determined over populations, therefore, you need to have a statistically valid sample and study to make an accurate statement about reliability. The CR study is the only statistically valid study, and puts the reliability around average. Your personal experience of lower reliability does not invalidate the average reliability of the fleet.

 

[green1]

I don't need any studies, I've owned many luxury cars over many years and the Tesla I've owned for over 20 months has been in for more unscheduled "emergency" maintenance more than all the cars I've owned over the past 3 years.

A sample size of one is useless to determine the reliability of the fleet

 

[Electroman]

I say, give me the range of a Tesla with the reliability of a Leaf !

 

[Darren Donovan]

None of these ratings are reliable unless they are based on a true random sample of owners, with controls for bias. And as none take measurements that way it means none can be completed trusted. Reliable and rigorous research on auto reliability is very difficult and expensive to do, which is why no one does reliable and rigorous research.

Tesla knows how every car has performed, but they're not talking.

I would think that if the data are strongly in Tesla's favor, they would have already let the whole world know.