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DMA - Turkish EV with a 400km range, stating their tech is better than Tesla's

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by emir-t, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. emir-t

    emir-t Member

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    So I didn't know whether to put this here or under EV conversions but there's this official company in Turkey called "DMA", abbr. for "Derindere Motorlu Araçlar" They have been developing their own EV technologies since 2007 in Turkey and they're a subsidy of a company called Derindere, the official importer/reseller/servicer of Toyota vehicles in Turkey. They are very popular and pretty much like the only importer of Toyotas in the country. (needless to say they sell thousands of Toyotas every year)

    What they do is they put their own technology into Toyota vehicles, (brand new ones) replacing the ICE part with their own EV structure. They make and sell EVs like this that cost almost 3X as the base Toyota and because of the lack of EV consciousness in Turkey they are very unpopular. They came up with their second product recently, implemented into the new version of the Toyota Corolla and this "+" version can go 400kms with one full charge using something like 53kWh battery. I believe they've made only one of this into a taxi serving in Istanbul to test and I got the chance to ride in one.(you can find my bit on them on my Tesla Blog, in Turkish, you can see photos) 0-60 is ~10 seconds which isn't bad. They also use li-ion battery of course goes without saying. Their old version, old "Corolla" had a 40kWh battery that could go 280km with one full charge. I saw at least 5 of them cruising around in Istanbul with their green sticking out "EV" stickers. That's how I recognised them of course since they're virtually indistinguishable from a regular Toyota Corolla physically. But there are a row of them around.

    There aren't a whole lot of information out there about them since they're very underrated and besides for research purposes I think they sell to order only. The new + version Corolla costs ~70K USD. What made me post about them here is a statement I saw of their Chairman. He says; (Regarding Tesla) "We have better technology than the leading performance electric vehicle maker in the world, they have more than 12,000 cells in their cars whereas we can go 400kms with 400 cells. We can individually see which pack is heating and disable it if necessary with our software. You can't do that sort of thing with 12,000 batteries"

    Obviously this isn't a very credible statement since you'd assume Tesla considering this option with their years of experience + being worth billions. It is a very interesting statement however as obviously using probably large amperage(capacity) cells would question the lifespan, reliability of those cells. Since they don't "really" sell commercially we don't have a users forum or a whole lot of information about their cars. What do you guys think? I just wanted to share.

    Here's a link to their official website. (they have English)
    Here's the news bit I was talking about the statement of the chairman.

    IMG_1447-720x340.jpg
    Photo of their 400km range new version Corolla with ~50kWh li-ion battery. (it is serving as a taxi in Istanbul right now, probably being tested that way, judging by the DMA stickers it has despite all other old versions still having DMA stickers)
     
  2. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    I seriously doubt anyone is getting 400 EPA km out of 53 kWh with anything bigger than a first generation Insight. You'd also think that they'd be able to count enough to know the difference between 7,000 and 12,000...
    Walter
     
  3. deckofficer

    deckofficer Member

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    They are using 112 prismatic cells like the ones I used at 1/2 the energy density of the Panasonic 18650.

    Cell voltage is 3.25 X 112 = 364 volts for a single series string of 110 ahr cells.

    Here is what (4) 100 ahr cells look like, I haven't hooked up the series buss bars yet in this picture.
    DSC02940.jpg
     
  4. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    If they have better tech they should have no problem attracting investors and launching the vehicle world wide.

    Compete head to head with Tesla and see who has better results.
     
  5. deckofficer

    deckofficer Member

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    They already start with at least two strikes against them using cells with 1/2 the whr per kg, add that to an inefficient ICE conversion, and I don't think Tesla has any worries. Tesla will always adapt to the highest energy density battery while this firm is using cells I used years ago. The only positive of my old Winston cells is 2000 cycles.
     
  6. InternetDude

    InternetDude Member

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    Good for them, but range is not a simple number.

    The 85D was rated at either 475 km or 485 km shortly after it was announced (Canada version of the site, I forget which # it was offhand). Now it's 435 km EPA rated.
     
  7. igotzzoom

    igotzzoom Member

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    I know Turkish drivers in particular have an incentive to go electric. Gas prices there are some of the highest in the world!
     
  8. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    I was going to point out the same thing. Not knowing Tesla's pack is ~7000 cells (7104 to be exact) shows he doesn't know what he's talking about. And the efficiency seems exaggerated (although them being in the US means they for sure are not talking about EPA range in the first place).
     
  9. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    It's the wrong way. Car manufacturers have massive economies of scale. You send the drivetrain to the car, not the other way round. (This is something I give credit to Toyota for doing with the RAV4 EV). If they're serious, they should talking to car manufacturers. Maybe Ford in Kocaeli? But the statement about being better because of fewer cells is laughable. A larger cell is more complex, it's a matter of choosing where the complexity is. As long as Tesla's approach delivers a better, cheaper battery, it's better technology.

    Also, an S60, which is larger, goes 0-60 in 5.9s. A big savings for this conversion is lower power.
     
  10. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    I think they are by implication. They're trying to get you to compare the 400 km they announced with the ~400 km EPA range of the Model S which has ended up in all of the news reports. But I'm sure that if they can actually get 400 km, it isn't in EPA conditions, which was my point. :)
     
  11. emir-t

    emir-t Member

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    Kinda resurrecting this thread but ever since that first post and my discovery of DMA, I ended up getting one! I've been obsessed with EVs this past 3 years and it seems I won't be able to afford a Tesla for at least 3 more years. Now that my ICE car has become a 12 year old, it's well overdue a change. It's bringing up problems all the time + costs very high to run. Add to that EVs destroying the future in which I buy another ICE, DMA is kind of my saviour.

    I've rented one for a year, been driving it for a month and I absolutely love it.(although in hindsight buying seems like a much lower cost option) I got the older, used, 2013 model with the 40kWh battery. (of which 36kWh is usable) Having read more about EVs in general it seems the large prismatic cell option gives out easier management of the cells but they suffer from energy density + cost. I've driven it 2500km + in the past month and I averaged ~185Wh/km. Giving me close to 200km range which is more than enough for day to day use. AFAIK they don't have thermal management for the batteries(at least that's what I've been told) which is kinda weird when you see all the other brands putting their utmost effort into this field. Onboard charger is only 4kW but they had the courtesy of installing an EVSE where I work with 2 more chargers. So in total, with 3 chargers I get 12kW charging. Again, more than enough for city driving.

    The newer model, aforementioned in the OP has a 53kWh battery and a 22kW on board charger. Hence enabling road trips. It also has a better infotainment system giving out more detailed readings about the battery. (for example the one I have only gives out "km per kWh" and SoC %) However it costs a staggering 78,000 USD! More than a base 70D, with less range + being a Toyota essentially.

    All in all, I love the one foot driving, I love not burning anything, I love not visiting a petrol station ever, I love having no gears and the smooth ride. I hope DMA continues improving their tech. Thank you DMA for saving me of petrol!
     
  12. Nedfunnell

    Nedfunnell New Member

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    This is neat! I think it makes sense to see a good EV come out of Turkey. As an engineer working in manufacturing, I am familiar with seeing equipment available from the US, Japan, Germany, but also Turkey. It is not always the cutting edge technology, but in my understanding is generally regarded as high quality and high value. A hydraulic cylinder I purchased for work from Enerpac, a well-known brand, was marked as made in Turkey. I know that some in this thread have been skeptical of a Turkish EV, but I think it makes sense. There is more engineering know-how in Turkey than I think most westerners would assume.
     

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