Quite! But go through the thread I linked to. Lots of us have found it to be the case.
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Do I buy a second hand model S or new model 3 ?
- Thread starter Steffy
- Start date
Just to be accurate ... Tesla quotes the numbers from WLTP testing ... they don't have any legal leeway to "claim" anything different. (We all know that WLTP numbers are not a useful guide to real world range, which varies enormously from one set of circumstances to another.) I suppose there is likely to be some trade off for almost hyper car performance! Nobody expects a Ferrari to do 55 mpg
SpareHeadOne
Member
Heat pump arrived in the models delivered Q4 2020, when Tesla changed the chrome trim around the windows to matt black (if you're looking for a visual clue).
Your local service centre can get the full specification of any vehicle from the VIN if you have a specific one in mind.
Nothing more than what I said i.e. given the choice of a 2-3 year old Performance vs new LR for the same price I would take the new LR every time. The difference in real world performance is minimal, especially if you opt for Accel boost. The new cars also have quite a few improvements as you know, plus a longer warranty.
Have you actually tested EAP/FSD? If not then I strongly suggest you try it before buying.
Yeah, I simply don't think the P version is worth the extra cost over the LR and cost appeared to be an important factor for the OP. The P is quicker off the line if going full gas and that's about it. There's track mode of course, so that could be a factor if planning to do track days. If not, then I would have thought a brand spanking new LR vs a well used P is a no-brainer.
A 250km difference is very big, I’d be thinking they are being driven in colder conditions. Im aware that WLTP isn’t accurate to real world, that number is in the best conditions possible, which is like rare lol. I generally take off 50km or worst case scveario 100km from the rating, but I wouldn’t expect a 250km difference.
Rooster6655
Active Member
In your case I would get a new LR but as the price difference is now only £5k between this and the P, I would actually get a brand new P especially as it will come with a 4 year warranty.
I would say New M3
Main reason being:
- defo a heat pump for all models in 2022
- much better and faster MCU (Ryzen all the way) - it is more future proof
- New battery and motors. means longer life. because warranty.
- used S will be just worse in more or less all aspects. sadly.
LR - 1 can do 3-4 miles per 1% of battery. 3 miles per % if weather is shitty. at 70 mph on motorway.
Main reason being:
- defo a heat pump for all models in 2022
- much better and faster MCU (Ryzen all the way) - it is more future proof
- New battery and motors. means longer life. because warranty.
- used S will be just worse in more or less all aspects. sadly.
LR - 1 can do 3-4 miles per 1% of battery. 3 miles per % if weather is shitty. at 70 mph on motorway.
rgfsr
Member
Hi, just on this point. Have you tested without EAP/FSD? The basic AP is really good and most owners here in Ireland (possibly because of our road network?) consider EAP/FSD a complete waste of money as it adds very little. Depends where you're located and where you expect to drive it.
PS - get a new M3P, you won't regret it
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
have you considered total-cost-of-ownership? Assuming coming from ICE (rather than another EV) then saving on fuel is £100 per month for every 10,000 Miles driven p.a. Putting £100 a month onto the finance buys quite a lot more car, and for anyone doing 30K miles p.a. another £300 a month on finance buys a lot more car
If you [have off-street parking / charging and] are able to get a particularly good over-night rate, and can charge exclusively using that, then the amount may be closer to £150 per month. Can you charge at work? for free maybe?Not sure I would buy an old one ... but I much prefer driving Model-S on long trips; Model-3 around bendy country roads; and Model-Y to pick up anything big. 2nd hand price of Tesla (maybe all EVs?) is strong. Not sure you'd get a good enough price on one to make it worth buying [if you can stretch to a new e.g. M3]
Personally I think the P is a waste of money. My first Model-S was performance (about 3s 0-60 back then IIRC). Stunning away from the lights, and showing off to my drooling mates ... all of whom had been "suitably impressed" within the first month or two of ownership ... after that I rarely used P-mode, and definitely never when I had passengers 'coz unless they were concentrating (like a co-driver would) me suddenly jumping out onto a roundabout into a tight gap ... "because I could" ... was just plain uncomfortable for them.
My current (all non-P) Model-S and Model-3 have identical 40-90 time / distance, and Model-Y gets to 86 over the same distance. On paper the 0-60 of those has quite a lot of difference. I so rarely do / need launch, whereas overtaking from 40-ish is common. The Performance Boost is almost all in the 0-40, and will make no discernible difference to 40-90 (and I doubt the P will make enough difference that you will be glad you paid for it).
Perhaps the P has bigger brakes and superior handling which might count for something (and top-speed / track-mode, if you would ever use it). One thing I can say about my old MSP was that getting the power down was flawless (never driven M3P so dunno if it is as good). All the non-P models I have driven scrabble a bit under launch (and the MY needs some concentration). Never, not ever, had that with the MSP. Launch worked with zero drama in all occasions - even when at the lights on a roundabout and taking the first (90-degree left) exit ... in the wet. But that's launch ... even though it never got old I didn't actually do that often, and the mythical alongside-a-supercar only happened a couple of times. And of course this is 2022 ... so all those Ferrari owners already know that even the cooking-version of a Tesla is going to give them some trouble ...
Surely these discussions are like asking about buying a used 5 series versus a new 3 series?
The S, 3, Y, X, Roadster may all be made by Tesla but like pretty much every other manufacturer they are all aiming for different markets and usage patterns.
If I was single, no commitments I wouldn't hesitate to try and hunt down a used Roadster 1.0, and than worry about driving it versus keeping it as a museum piece.
The S for me is still the best looking and most timeless EV made. Its the car that's got Tesla to where they are now, and even now a 2014 car still matches many brand new EVs for range and performance. Through in the MCU2 retrofit and CCS adaptor, it's still a very very good car.
Full aluminium chassis, air suspension, class leading utility, cheap on going ownership costs, its a car that you can happly own/run for decades. The only reason I can see NOT to get one is the uncertainty around if Tesla will actually sell you a 'new' battery pack versus just a 'refurbished' one when the time comes.
Tesla on the whole are acutally very good at supporting older cars, but reading around the US sections of the forum it's really unclear if they are no willing to supply the 'new' 90kWh pack for older car because of supply issues or because they are not allowed to by Elon - after all an old S with a new 90kWh pack has pretty much the same range as a new S, so thats potentially a new car sale 'lost' to Tesla. If I was Tesla there is zero chance I would allowed owners of older car access to new battery packs.
I still hope to find a way to own a S one day, its one of the few EVs ever made that cab hold it's own in the presence of motoring legends. For me the 3, Y, X (with the FWDs closed) aren't in the same league interms of presence and history (not that Tesla has much heritage).
The first time I saw a S in the metal I actually thought it was a Maserati Quattroporte that had been de grilled.....or maybe I just need to go to spec savers.
The S, 3, Y, X, Roadster may all be made by Tesla but like pretty much every other manufacturer they are all aiming for different markets and usage patterns.
If I was single, no commitments I wouldn't hesitate to try and hunt down a used Roadster 1.0, and than worry about driving it versus keeping it as a museum piece
.The S for me is still the best looking and most timeless EV made. Its the car that's got Tesla to where they are now, and even now a 2014 car still matches many brand new EVs for range and performance. Through in the MCU2 retrofit and CCS adaptor, it's still a very very good car.
Full aluminium chassis, air suspension, class leading utility, cheap on going ownership costs, its a car that you can happly own/run for decades. The only reason I can see NOT to get one is the uncertainty around if Tesla will actually sell you a 'new' battery pack versus just a 'refurbished' one when the time comes.
Tesla on the whole are acutally very good at supporting older cars, but reading around the US sections of the forum it's really unclear if they are no willing to supply the 'new' 90kWh pack for older car because of supply issues or because they are not allowed to by Elon - after all an old S with a new 90kWh pack has pretty much the same range as a new S, so thats potentially a new car sale 'lost' to Tesla. If I was Tesla there is zero chance I would allowed owners of older car access to new battery packs.
I still hope to find a way to own a S one day, its one of the few EVs ever made that cab hold it's own in the presence of motoring legends. For me the 3, Y, X (with the FWDs closed
) aren't in the same league interms of presence and history (not that Tesla has much heritage).
The first time I saw a S in the metal I actually thought it was a Maserati Quattroporte that had been de grilled.....or maybe I just need to go to spec savers
.
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I don't have experience of a 3 as we're a one car family of five + dog, but we recently replaced our 2017 S 90D with a new Y LR. Loved the S, but do not miss it at all as the Y just does almost everything better and has the added benefit of not giving me heart palpitations about out of warranty repair costs. The S was a little smoother (though I twice had to have the air suspension fixed), but the Y is so much more responsive, less barge-like, has much better tech and much better range/charging.
Its actually quite sad to hear this as a car 'enthusiast'. Cars for me have never been about numbers, but more the enjoyment, newer cars of from all brands have better numbers.
I think am just getting old these days, buy my biggest 'regret' in car ownership was selling my old DC2 ITR because on paper better 'options' were there. If the stars align, I would love to get a P85+ S to keep in the garage.
I know it's probably coming but if EVs end up turning cars into just a love for charging speeds and MCU processors its a sad day, and all the naysers would be proved right, EVs are just another 'white goods' like the latest Bosch washing machine and its super efficient wash cycle and silent mode
....swapping a S for a Y...I cannot help think of this everytime I see a Y, which is quite often now, but at least when you are in the car you cannot see its profile .
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I'm in agreement. t have just sold my 2019 MS 100D for the same reasons and am waiting (trying to be patient) for my MYLR. I had three great years with the MS, no issues at a all apart from the yellow screen border, but the worry about expensive future repairs and also the tech and range improvements in newer cars made up my mind to change.
I’m confident that people are people! EVs will be just like other cars and treated the same way. It’s not turning into a numbers game … people still “love” their cars … they attach qualities to brands that don’t really exist … they customise appearance and function… they argue with others over which is better.I know it's probably coming but if EVs end up turning cars into just a love for charging speeds and MCU processors its a sad day, and all the naysers would be proved right, EVs are just another 'white goods' like the latest Bosch washing machine and its super efficient wash cycle and silent mode
If we operated on the basis of numbers, utility and economics then probably 50% of existing car owners could get rid of their individual vehicles join a sharing scheme … and there’s not much sign of that happening.