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Do I have a lemon?

Discussion in 'Model X' started by ImperialG, Aug 23, 2018.

  1. ImperialG

    ImperialG Member

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    I've had a Model S since 2013 and drove it until it had 180k miles and never faced this many fit/finish/build issues in such a short period of time. I've had so many issues that the car has been with Tesla for about 25% of the time that I've owned it.

    I took delivery of my Model X in March and since then, I've had a host of issues:
    • Falcon wing door detecting phantom exterior objects when parked in direct sunlight (fixed once, but still occurring)
    • Falcon wing door interior sensor detecting phantom objects
    • A/C blowing hot air for two weeks. Turns out that it due to an O ring that wasn't properly seated
    • 3 out of 4 tires were "out of round" within the first two weeks and had to be replaced
    • Defective UMC that wouldn't charge car and needed to be replaced
    • Wind noise occurring from 3 out of 4 windows
    • Defective inner belt seal in driver's glass, which caused a "clunk" noise when rolling up/down window and constantly ripped the window tints
    • Rear camera un-working about 20% of the time and needed to be replaced
    • Lagging MCU due to corrupted navigation file, but never fully resolved even after reformatting
    • Many random shakes and rattles

    I started to notice the issues about 20 miles after taking delivery and have never been fully resolved since then. The service center is amazing and has been very willing to fix any issues that pop up. Also, they've offered to waive the first three deductibles for warranty issues that arise during the extended warranty period (which I have still yet to purchase).

    I was wondering if these signs indicate that I've got a lemon and should purchase a new X or S as a replacement.
     
    • Informative x 1
  2. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Active Member

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    Take a look at the Tesla portal under your car. You should find details of the Lemon Law. If you want to use it, there are detailed steps.

    If Tesla is fixing things, then it generally can't be considered a lemon.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  3. Peteybabes

    Peteybabes redneck drivin' a tesla...

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    it's possible, but it varies state-by-state, if your state even allows it...

    i'm trying to lemon law my car at the moment and it's because it's been into tesla more than "X" number of times in the first 18K miles, but if the same part has issues like 5? times and doesn't get resolved then it can be lemon lawed as well. (i'm in ohio)

    if you owned a Range Rover you'd be in for just as many electronic/electrical issues and not many people lemon law those, they just say: "yep it's a Land Rover" and keep on trucking. :D
     
    • Like x 1
  4. jboy210

    jboy210 Supporting Member

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    Lemon laws usually require the SAME problem to occur AND 3 or 4 repair attempts to repair being made with no resolution.

    FWIW, My X makes noise and rattles over rough roads, especially if I fill the tires to the sticked 45 psi. Much better at the 40 PSI they left the factory at. And the windows make noise and leak if I forget to use gummi pflege on the seals every month or two. (Any BMW owner owns gummi pflege.)
     
  5. ImperialG

    ImperialG Member

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    Yes, I saw that for my state, the car is eligible for a lemon law claim if it has been in for service at least twice for the same issue within the first 24,000 miles, or it has been out of service for 20 cumulative days for one or more defects and the defect still exists. Both requirements apply to my vehicle.
     
    • Informative x 1
  6. Anzir

    Anzir Supporting Member

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    It all depends on your state's definition of lemon. What happens here in Florida is that it has to be brought for a certain number of times in the first year for the SAME problem for it to be a lemon. With your number of issues it seems that it going to be something for Tesla to evaluate if they would do a buy back.

    Edit: I see that 2 responses were posted in the time I typed my response. You would have to file with your state for the proceedings to start.
     
  7. Matutino

    Matutino Member

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    We all do ;)
     
  8. verygreen

    verygreen Curious member

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    Not true. Plenty of states have a limit on total number of days the car being in for servicing (out of service) in addition to number of attempts to fix the same issue.

    So if you have 10 (or any other random number) different issues that all together took over 30 days to fix - you are eligible in my state.
     
  9. testarossa

    testarossa Member

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    Having just lemon lawed my SUV,, I can tell you that they differ for each state. California has the most stringent rules but the two main things are 3 or more repeated and failed attempts to fix the same problem or 30 cumulative days in the shop for different issues. It'll take about 2-4 months for all the paper work, inquiries, and finally a non-disclosure document that will need to be notarized by you before they disburse funds.
    The customer service for the high ends makes is usually pretty good but it happens at their pace so don't expect a speedy process.
    good luck!
     
  10. KOL2000

    KOL2000 Member

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    Your description sounds like a normal X to me.

    Welcome to the club.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  11. ImperialG

    ImperialG Member

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    Yeah, that's what I'm nervous about. If I get another X, will I face the same issues over and over, or is mine an isolated case of a bad build.
     
  12. Peteybabes

    Peteybabes redneck drivin' a tesla...

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    yeah, my car has amassed around 30 days total in the shop...
     
  13. Peteybabes

    Peteybabes redneck drivin' a tesla...

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    i'm trying to lemon law a lease, which ohio allows. hopefully not 2-4 months.
     
  14. outie

    outie Active Member

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    I can tell you that FWD starts detecting phantom objects after parking in direct sunlight is not an isolated case. My previous X was repurchased because of this exact same issue. What color is your car?
     
    • Like x 1
  15. ImperialG

    ImperialG Member

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    Blue
     
  16. outie

    outie Active Member

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    Yep darker color is more prone to this issue. Tesla doesn’t have any solution for it. My solution was to go from midnight silver to white. It’s helped tremendously.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  17. TexasRat

    TexasRat Member

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    My OA told me that they changed the design + manufacturer of the FWD and its sensors in late June/July. Supposedly the new design doesn't suffer from this issue. The only way to tell though, is to have someone w/ a darker color test it out. I'll test it out for you if I ever get my car back from the SC. Mine was built in the middle of July and supposedly has the updated door.

    Better yet, we can verify from someone in August and that would know if my OA was telling the truth on that.
     
    • Informative x 1
  18. AdamHLG

    AdamHLG Member

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    You don't know how right you are. When I purchased my last Range Rover, it had horrible brake squeal within weeks of me leaving the dealership. After 2 service visits during the first 2 months on the issue, I was angry because I was being "brushed off" with BS such as "big box breaks squeal" and "its normal all Range Rovers have that issue (mind you, this was my THIRD Range Rover purchase over 10 years). And yet the service center could care less about me. And then it happened. When I complained again to the Service Manager, I was told that there was nothing they could do and that I was "driving it wrong". Driving it wrong. Two prior Range Rovers without the issue and I am driving it wrong because I am "riding the brakes and glazing the rotors". And it was said to me in a patronizing and condescending voice. I am over 50, Sorry but who the F do you think you are talking to like that after I purchased a (faulty) $100K+ supercharged full size RR? I am driving it wrong?

    I then took the vehicle to the dealership of purchase further from my residence. They could not fix it. So I called Range Rover National and all I ever received was voice mails. No call back for weeks and when they did call back it was off hours and all that would be left is a voice mail with no call back number. When I finally reached National by repeatedly calling back over many weeks and upon being fortunate enough to answer the call at an off hour when they did call back, I was told they spoke to the service center and my car was not broken... and I was asked if there was anything "Land Rover could do for me today?" I politely asked for a name. The agent refused. When I pressed the issue, I was given a first name and she hung up. Un-be-lievable.

    I am an attorney and a litigator. As they say.... "don't take the law into your own hands... take'm to Court." So with that 'click' of the phone hanging up I started the lemon law process. I did the research, I sent the notices by certified mail, etc. (the law does vary by state). Having done the prerequisites to set up the claim, I made the 3rd service appointment at the dealership of purchase (but the first appointment after the notice requirement under the lemon law), and I told the service manager the issue and I showed him a copy of my lemon law notices. He said the issue is normal (he remembered me from the very first appointment) and said there will be nothing he can do. I said I don't care. I nicely informed him that he can simply stare at the car for all I care and write me a service receipt, because before I leave, I will be making the next service appointment and we can do it again (#2 post-notice visit), and then we will do it again a third time (... and #3), and at that point, his dealership was going to buy my car back from me or I would sue Range Rover with extreme pleasure.

    So you have read this far.... and now the best part. I receive a call from the service manager on that first post-lemon law visit and I am told </(engage sound from Heaven> there was a global Service Bulletin two weeks ago regarding "excessive break squeal" and that, if a customer had the issue, the front brakes AND rotors and other assemblies near the front wheels that I cannot remember would require replacement with new modified part assemblies all under warranty. The service was performed. The issue was solved. DRIVING IT WRONG? DRIVING IT WRONG? All I wanted to do was setup a robo call to the other service manager that said "driving it wrong" over and over and over all day while faxing the service bulletin to his shop 250 times. But.... I didn't. Because that would be crazy.

    What did I do? I sold the car soon after and purchased a Model X. I will never purchase another Land Rover. For a company to treat a triple car-buying customer (or any customer) in the manner in which they did, only to find the issue was theirs all along, and then to be treated by National in the manner in which they did (when someone must have known that a service bulletin was released or about to be released), forever ends my relationship with that company. And I have no problem telling the internet.

    I have never been as happy in a car as I am in my X. I have never been as happy with a service center when I did have a few issues. It is a breath of fresh air.

    To the OP, I hope you get your issues resolved. Sorry for the long comment. You can see how the prior experience scarred me.
     
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  19. KOL2000

    KOL2000 Member

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    Same boat here. Our 2013 S is like a NYC taxi - super reliable (everything except body panels have been replaced of course..). The X however.... what a disaster.

    The real issue is that Tesla doesnt have any real competition in the luxury EV space for the foreseeable future. Even if other cars are introduced (Porsche, jaguar, etc) they don't have a supercharging network so they are a non-starter. Elon hates "moats" but Tesla currently has a very large moat.
     
  20. Peteski

    Peteski Active Member

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    Depends what parts are still defective from your list. I presume your tyres are sorted? I presume your replacement UMC works? I presume the A/C and rear camera are now working? Any of the other stuff still outstanding e.g. shakes and rattles? What about the FWDs? I would demand a replacement MCU if that's not sorted. Then see how it stands before deciding whether to consider it a proper long term lemon.
     

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