Do I just sue Tesla? New record for getting Powned

[FatherTo1]

I used to mod import cars in my youth, so I can understand the pursuit of more power or better performance. That said, the Ohmmu LiFePO4, at over $400 is probably one of the worst ROI. I used a Blackvue B-124 lithium iron phosphate battery to power dashcams in the past so I'm familiar with the quick charging benefits for certain applications, but the Model S already has a very good AGM 12V (which is already a step up from a traditional lead-acid 12V). Saving 10 pounds of weight will net you maybe, maybe 0.25 percent, or 0.01 second quicker acceleration -- you're not going to feel that. You might as well pull out your floormats and lose the same amount of weight for a lot less money without potential of voiding your warranty.

There is distrust on both sides, OP and SC. Glad that car seems to be alive and charging again after stock parts were reinstalled (assuming that's what happened until we hear more). Sucks this happened to a repeat customer. Just a series of poorly handled incidents. Hopefully OP gets a working car back and maybe has a different option of SC to use in the future. I know it's tough though out in the Midwest around MI and States that don't allow Tesla to setup service centers and sell direct.

 

[Zooomer]

Still no word on the car. Problems asside, in what world is it acceptable to not commutate with the customer? Then when you do, you don't tell them what you did, just that their car doesn't move and you're charging $100/day after it's completed. Never mind they said it would be completed last Friday, then Monday. Now it's Thursday. I live out of state. I can't just leave the moment they say it's done. How can they be clear on how much they are going to charge me to 'store' the car but not give any information on when it will be done or what they have or have not completed? Then not respond to texts or emails in 24hrs and tell you they don't have a phone?? It's like a bad joke, like being on the show pranked.
And to be clear, I don't care if they need the car for a day or a month. Even no loaner on a brand new defective car is whatever. And agreeing to travel out of state to bring them back their defective vehicle. And agreeing to pay for the glass that should have been free. But no information? Not replying? No phone number? Threats of storage fees? It's just too much

 

[MP3Mike]

And agreeing to travel out of state to bring them back their defective vehicle.

Well that is covered in the warranty and is your obligation...

 

[Zooomer]

Well that is covered in the warranty and is your obligation...

If this was a warranty I'd agree. It's not. The car was bad on delivery and I pointed that out when I got home.

It's like buying a TV from best buy and agreeing to handle warranty claims directly with the manufacture. You plug it in and it doesn't work. Are you going to call the the manufacture? No, that would be absurd. Granted a TV is different than a vehicle BUT the point is that things are generally handled by sales when the item is bad out of the box.

As I said, I agreed to bring it in. (Even with them having done mobile warranty on my other Teslas, I have a service garage here probably larger than theirs). But when someone gives you something defective, it should not be treated the same as giving you a product that later develops an issue.

 

[EVDRVN]

Enlighten me. What facts don't I have?

I'm sorry me saying 'better regen' offends you. The statement is true. You get better regen performance. EVDRVN maybe you're angry because you misread the post and are arguing against something I didn't say. Go back to page one. I did not say 'more' regen. I said 'better regen'


It's physics. With the regen KW remaining fixed, a lighter car will slow down in a shorter distance.

I'm not angry or offended I'm trying to make the distinction you are struggling with, you are not clear it is not better regen performance either. I've been in the EV industry 20 plus years, you may wish to get your terminology correct. Also it is not KW it's kW.

 

[Zooomer]

I'm not angry or offended I'm trying to make the distinction you are struggling with, you are not clear it is not better regen performance either. I've been in the EV industry 20 plus years, you may wish to get your terminology correct. Also it is not KW it's kW.

So we're debating about me capitalizing an extra letter? Being in the EV industry 20 years you should help me(us) out. What facts don't I have?
What do I have wrong about the regen? Explain to us why the car does not stop in a shorter distance under regen when the vehicle is lighter.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

So we're debating about me capitalizing an extra letter? Being in the EV industry 20 years you should help me(us) out. What facts don't I have?
What do I have wrong about the regen? Explain to us why the car does not stop in a shorter distance under regen when the vehicle is lighter.

Think about it purely from a physics stand point.

Momentum is energy, and part of momentum is mass. So if you have more mass you have more momentum.

Excluding all other factors re-gen is translating that momentum into energy.

So more mass is more re-gen.

But, why are we even focused on re-gen? We know re-gen isn't 100% efficient or even close to it.

We also know that things that weigh more require more energy to get moving. So having more weight is less efficient over all.

So obviously reducing mass is a good idea. But, don't use re-gen as part of the reason.

 

[ucmndd]

Think about it purely from a physics stand point.

Momentum is energy, and part of momentum is mass. So if you have more mass you have more momentum.

Excluding all other factors re-gen is translating that momentum into energy.

So more mass is more re-gen.

Also from a pure physics standpoint - you have a fixed ~60kw power source available to decelerate an object. Which object will that power source bring to a stop first? A 1000 kg mass or a 500kg mass?

This is needless nitpicking over what “better regen” means. Is faster deceleration “better”? Is a higher level of energy recovery “better”?

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Also from a pure physics standpoint - you have a fixed ~60kw power source available to decelerate an object. Which object will that power source bring to a stop first? A 1000 kg mass or a 500kg mass?

This is needless nitpicking over what “better regen” means. Is faster deceleration “better”? Is a higher level of energy recovery “better”?

I think better re-gen is pretty clear in what it means. That it means more energy is recovered.

Like when I ask for stronger re-gen, and "give me everything she's got" then I want more of my momentum transferred to energy that can be reused.

It's being talked about independently of stopping distance.

If the OP argued that it would be more efficient, and would stop faster then I don't think anyone would have argued with him.

Sure people would have laughed about the tiny fractional amount that such a small difference would make, but hey some people chase that extra .01%.

This isn't nitpicking at all. The OP was correct in his mind about what he meant, but used the wrong wording to describe what he was thinking.

I'm a re-gen lover so I gotta defend it

In fact sometimes I ride my pedal assist bike on set on maximum re-gen when I go down a hill. On most pedal assist bikes they give you positive assist from like 0-3 or something like that. But, on this one you can set it to negative assist. Where a setting of -3 makes it difficult to turn the pedals even when traveling down a massive hill. It's hilarious when people watch me making a grand effort trying to pedal my bike down a hill.

 

[EVDRVN]

So we're debating about me capitalizing an extra letter? Being in the EV industry 20 years you should help me(us) out. What facts don't I have?
What do I have wrong about the regen? Explain to us why the car does not stop in a shorter distance under regen when the vehicle is lighter.

Read what I said and others are saying. Stop digging a hole.

 

[ucmndd]

I think better re-gen is pretty clear in what it means. That it means more energy is recovered.

So let’s use physics again.

An electric motor accelerates a 1000kg rolling mass to 100km/hr then decelerates it to zero with a 50kw regenerative motor, capturing the recovered energy in the same source used for acceleration.

Repeat the same exercise with a 500kg rolling mass.

Which system has more energy available in the battery at the end of the exercise? Which is “better”?

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

So let’s use physics again.

An electric motor accelerates a 1000kg rolling mass to 100km/hr then decelerates it to zero with a 50kw regenerative motor, capturing the recovered energy in the same source used for acceleration.

Repeat the same exercise with a 500kg rolling mass.

Which system has more energy available in the battery at the end of the exercise? Which is “better”?

We're talking about "better re-gen", and not efficiency.

So why are you asking an efficiency question?

Calculating the difference in energy available at the end of a journey is an efficiency question.

 

[EVDRVN]

Insanely stupid thread. Lower weight in a car produces LESS regen, period end of story. Nothing else is relevant related to the weight debate all things constant, If you remove 100 pound soff an EV it will get less REGEN. How fast it stops has noting to do with how much REGEN is produced in terms of more regen from less weight which is wrong. Less weight will be more efficient and will allow you to stop sooner for the same stopping power it has nothing to do with more regen. Let's beat the horse into glue now.

 

[ucmndd]

We're talking about "better re-gen", and not efficiency.

So why are you asking an efficiency question?

Because the only reasonable way to talk about what’s “better” in this instance is to talk about the share of energy recovered vs. that which is expended. Nothing else makes logical or practical sense.

In other words - not many EV drivers are filling their trunks with sand bags so they can get “better regen”, because that quite obviously makes no sense to anyone approaching the problem from any reasonable position.

 

[random155]

Tesla Customer service is the worst.

/thread

Nail on the head my friend... nail... on... the... head.

 

[EVDRVN]

Because the only reasonable way to talk about what’s “better” in this instance is to talk about the share of energy recovered vs. that which is expended. Nothing else makes logical or practical sense.

In other words - not many EV drivers are filling their trunks with sand bags so they can get “better regen”, because that quite obviously makes no sense to anyone approaching the problem from any reasonable position.

But a lighter battery does get you better regen !!! Also a fan on the roof with a generator!

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Because the only reasonable way to talk about what’s “better” in this instance is to talk about the share of energy recovered vs. that which is expended. Nothing else makes logical or practical sense.

In other words - not many EV drivers are filling their trunks with sand bags so they can get “better regen”, because that quite obviously makes no sense to anyone approaching the problem from any reasonable position.

But, once again re-gen is ONLY energy recovered.

When I use the wrong terminology for something I'm not going to double down on it, and try to redefine it. Instead I'm going to go "Oops, I meant ... "

But, I'm also someone who has a hard time not correcting a text when I see a typo or autocorrect issue.

 

[Pied]

I would have put the original battery in before bringing it in. I use to do that when I brought my car in to dealers for unrelated items. Usually any aftermarket battery isn't an issue, but maybe EVs are more sensitive. Like how a BMWs fuel pump is sensitive to bad gas.

You can go the magnusun moss route, but then it just goes to corporate. Less headache going back to stock.

 

[ArizonaP85]

If it's helpful I can share this. The service center was forced to admit to me they are directly forbidden by their supervisors from providing any phone number. When they do dial out it's from a blocked number. They claim there is no landline at the building.

When I recently had to take my vehicle in to this Toledo center they initially diagnosed that my car and air suspension needed work and my tires needed alignment, and I don't even have air suspension. When I showed up I told them to call me and authorize the alignment with me before they do it. I also said to provide me with any old parts that I own which are replaced under service. When I pick up my car after never hearing a peep they did the alignment anyway without asking, took off ~$25 off the ~$200 since I didn't have air suspension, didn't charge the car at all so i can get home, and double charged my credit card for the service, and then explicitly refused to provide me any parts saying they were required to be shipped back to Tesla. So I think they are under direction to get as many add on charges as possible and we know for certain they are being forbidden from providing a contact number or email. It took me like a days to get the refund.

They never even got my signature for the work/service, so no matter what they are playing it fast and loose in Toledo.

In Ohio, no written estimate or initialed form from you waiving written estimate? Don’t pay!

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...-Business/Business-Guide/Repairs-and-Services

You may be from Michigan but your work was performed in Ohio and Tesla Toledo MUST follow Ohio law. File a complaint with the Ohio Attorney General’s Office and a chargeback dispute with your credit card if that’s how you paid.

Ohio law also requires shops to offer to return original parts AND get customers’ written authorization to not return them.

Ignoring Ohio’s consumer protection laws sadly sounds consistent with Tesla ignoring customers’ warranty and service needs. No phone calls, no phone number, broken app, it all sounds like a bad joke. OP is a three time purchaser of new high-end Model S ... and he’s being treated this badly?!?

Elon, please pay attention and fix this as it is damaging Tesla’s future. Sure, your apple tree has a bumper crop right now, but if you don’t water it, you won’t have any apples next year.

Porsche may not do Taycan battery tech all that well but I guarantee that a Porsche dealer will bend over backwards for a customer who buys three new 911s over span of a few years ... not bend the customer over.

OP, you have my utmost sympathy.

 

[EVDRVN]

Elon could care less, Tesla managers outside service could care less. Tesla likely has the worst customer service of any car company. They are worse than Paypal. Wait, someone made a bunch of money at Paypal.