Do I need permit for Tesla Wall Charger if I already installed a permitted 14-50 Outlet?

[Omar777]

Good Evening everyone!

I have recently installed a NEMA 14-50 Outlet but I have been interested in upgrading to the Tesla Wall Charger

My plan was to have the same licensed electrical contractor do the installation

Does anyone know if this will require permits and city inspections again? I have also been debating if I should ask my HOA, they already approved the NEMA 14-50 outlet but I am worried that it might take months to approve if I ask them first.

It took 9 months to get HOA approval for the outlet and 4 months to get permits and inspections completed by the city for the NEMA 14-50 outlet !

 

[Keninblaine]

I believe the latest and greatest Wall Connector allows you to build a 60A circuit which could charge your Tesla car to the maximum of 48A continously (80% of 60A) while the maximum current of Tesla Mobile Charger is 32A or 40A circuit breaker.

Plus you can control the Wall Connector via WiFi using the app that you couldn't do with Mobile Connector. Also if you own two or more Tesla cars, it's easier to have power sharing using multiple Wall Connectors to charge multiple Tesla cars that you couldn't do with Mobile Chargers. Please read the operating manual about power sharing using multiple Tesla Wall Connectors, it's pretty interesting.

Peter

A 60amp circuit will require #4 conductors, which is much more expensive than #6. The WiFi control of the Wall Charger is only beneficial if you have 2 chargers sharing a common circuit. For normal charging with one charger, you control the charging via your phone app communicating directly with the car, not the charger. And the difference in charging time between using a 40 amp circuit and a 48 amp circuit is not that significant, IMO, to justify the extra cost.

 

[Keninblaine]

It’s an electrical range plug, not dryer plug

Furthermore, those cheap Leviton receptacles available for $10 or $20 at Home Depot have a record of overheating due to their plastic housing, steel contacts, and poor screw clamp design. You need to use the more robust 14-50 receptacle made by Hubbell or Kellems that use bakelite housings, brass contacts, and robust screw clamps to handle the heavy duty cycles of EV charging, which typically cost in the $80-$100 price range.

 

[topboxman]

A 60amp circuit will require #4 conductors, which is much more expensive than #6. The WiFi control of the Wall Charger is only beneficial if you have 2 chargers sharing a common circuit. For normal charging with one charger, you control the charging via your phone app communicating directly with the car, not the charger. And the difference in charging time between using a 40 amp circuit and a 48 amp circuit is not that significant, IMO, to justify the extra cost.

That's true but this person asked for differences between Wall Connectors and Mobile Chargers and I explained it, that’s all.

The alternative is having a 40A circuit breaker and multiple Wall Chargers using power sharing at 32A which could use cheaper conductor wiring if you own multiple Tesla cars. This would save money on using smaller AWG wiring.

Like I said before, read the manual about power sharing using multiple Wall Connectors.

Peter

 

[Keninblaine]

What's the purpose of the Tesla Charger as shown in this picture vs. plugging directly into the receptacle with the Tesla Power Cord I received with my 2018 Model 3?

The only difference is that using the Tesla Charger as shown frees up your Tesla power cord to be carried in the car in case you need to use it away from home.

BTW, my only problem with plugging the Tesla Charger into the Nema receptacle rather than hard wiring the charger is that there is an additional point of failure by using the receptacle. And as I pointed out in a previous post, the use of a low cost receptacle would be more vulnerable to dangerous overheating than using a higher quality/more robust receptacle. There are numerous YT videos on this subject, including one by Sandy Munroe last year.

 

[Omar777]

It would be ideal to have the electrician remove the outlet box and just connect the wires to the wall charger.

I went on the city website and found this, there are 5 cases where the permit is not required. here is an image of the code for San Diego

1- could this be considered repairing a receptacle ? I mean it is an outlet that is being replaced.
2-could this be considered a portable appliance? probably not but I am not sure
3- I think this does not apply
4- does not apply
5- is the wall charger considered an appliance used for household purposes? this is probably the most confusing but it might help

Thanks for everyones input

 

[SageBrush]

I have been interested in upgrading to the Tesla Wall Charger

Why ?

If your reason is faster charging then the wiring and breaker may also need to be upgraded, and then you WOULD be starting from scratch, as it were.

 

[SageBrush]

A 60amp circuit will require #4 conductors

For NMB, yes.
For THHN run in conduit, #6 AWG is probably enough

 

[OxBrew]

Get an electrician to swap it, using the existing wire. Set the wall charger to lower amps if necessary (50A circuit can only provide 40A continuous (which is plenty).

If anyone says you need a permit later, play dumb and say you thought you were just swapping an outlet, basically, so it never crossed your mind.

Then if it takes forever to get the permit, at least you have it already working.

Probably no one will ever notice or care.

 

[Omar777]

Get an electrician to swap it, using the existing wire. Set the wall charger to lower amps if necessary (50A circuit can only provide 40A continuous (which is plenty).

If anyone says you need a permit later, play dumb and say you thought you were just swapping an outlet, basically, so it never crossed your mind.

Then if it takes forever to get the permit, at least you have it already working.

Probably no one will ever notice or care.

Yea I think you are right, I have been thinking about this, just doing it with the electric company that installed the outlet and if the HOA inquires about it telling them I just swaped the outlet box for the wall charger. If they insist that I check with the city and if I indeed need a permit I will have to go through some hoops again although it should be much easier.

I agree that its unlikely that it becomes an issue since they probably won't care or notice it. It might be a problem in the future if another resident wants to install one and they point at mine saying that since I got one they want one too.

Maybe I am just overthinking this but this has been a very strict HOA in the past, fining residents for not submitting an arquitectural application for basic cosmetic remodeling, it seems easy to go through the bureaucratic process of filing out the forms and waiting for approval but it also seems like a huge waste of time for something so minor and there is the chance that it might get denied, although unlikely.

 

[Omar777]

Why ?

If your reason is faster charging then the wiring and breaker may also need to be upgraded, and then you WOULD be starting from scratch, as it were.

Well, it seems that the wall charger is much more convenient than the mobile connector in my situation. I have to charge it pretty much every single day since my work commute is around 100 miles and I take the mobile connector with me so I can charger it at work.

My condo charger is currently is in a NEMA locked box with a padlock since I had issues in the past of people disconnecting my charger and it is in a downtown area.

The outlet I have at work is a NEMA 14-30 so I have to replace the mobile conector with the other compatible connection.

It seems like the wall charger just plugs in and unplugs instead of having to deal with the mobile conector, the correct adapter, and the locking mechanism for the outlet box, and this is every day. I really can't complain too much because this is still much better than how I was before having anything to charge at home and having to rely on superchargers .

 

[Zacster]

After plugging into a 115v outlet at home, through a window as I don't have an outdoor outlet, I installed a wall charger and it really is a lot more convenient. I just back into the spot and plug in, nothing to fuss with. And it is a lot faster, but that won't be the case for you as you are already on a 220v line.

Funny thing. My M3 is currently in the shop after a minor accident and I'm using an old Camry that my daughter had. But this Camry is fussy and I must have left a light on in it so it was completely dead. I wanted to just take my Tesla charger and plug it in. Instead I had to resort to a battery charger and the same cord through the same window...

 

[SageBrush]

Well

Sounds good. Just be careful that the TWC is matched to your branch circuit Amp-wise. You have to set the TWC to your breaker

 

[rpiotro]

This,

Tesla Wall connector with 14-50 NEMA plug

The power electronics in the on board charger that converts 240v (or 120v) AC to the nearly 400v DC needed to charge the battery. The reported behavior has been that charging at or below 16a uses one charging circuit, Charging between 16a and 32a splits the load across two of them and >32a (in...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[DuncanM]

Good Evening everyone!

I have recently installed a NEMA 14-50 Outlet but I have been interested in upgrading to the Tesla Wall Charger

My plan was to have the same licensed electrical contractor do the installation

Does anyone know if this will require permits and city inspections again? I have also been debating if I should ask my HOA, they already approved the NEMA 14-50 outlet but I am worried that it might take months to approve if I ask them first.

It took 9 months to get HOA approval for the outlet and 4 months to get permits and inspections completed by the city for the NEMA 14-50 outlet !

Why not just use a Tesla Mobile Connector (charger) and it's included NEMA 14-50 plug? It still provides enough current to the car to fully charge overnight; then there's no need for you to take further action. The TMC will give you 32 amps vs the maximum 40 that the TWC will provide.

 

[JimShaw]

in 2019, I got a permit from the town to install a NEMA 14-50 and why did I do that is because, If the house ever burnt down, I didn't want the insurance company to use a not-permitted electrical installation as a reason not to fund.

Later on, I decided to install the Tesla wall charger. I took my plan to switch out the 14-50 with a Tesla charger to town and was told a new inspection was not needed.

I received 32 amps with the 14-50 and 48 with a Tesla wall charger. I really didn't need to change the 14-50 for a wall charger. I guess I became a fanboy and wanted to do everything Tesla and waisted a lot of money.

 

[Casmium]

I believe the latest and greatest Wall Connector allows you to build a 60A circuit which could charge your Tesla car to the maximum of 48A continously (80% of 60A) while the maximum current of Tesla Mobile Charger is 32A or 40A circuit breaker.

Plus you can control the Wall Connector via WiFi using the app that you couldn't do with Mobile Connector. Also if you own two or more Tesla cars, it's easier to have power sharing using multiple Wall Connectors to charge multiple Tesla cars that you couldn't do with Mobile Chargers. Please read the operating manual about power sharing using multiple Tesla Wall Connectors, it's pretty interesting.

Peter

With the newer wall connector you can also set it up to only work with certain Vin numbers(up to 10 last time i checked) to prevent your pesky neighbors from using your power when you aren't home

 

[father_of_6]

With the newer wall connector you can also set it up to only work with certain Vin numbers(up to 10 last time i checked) to prevent your pesky neighbors from using your power when you aren't home

Yeah but don't do that... I might actually *need* to use it. This is like denying me use of your bathroom. You wouldn't want me to pooh on your lawn, would you?

Thanks!

 

[iroach]

We just bought a Model Y Performance and I found this site looking for the answer to this question.

I have a similar setup. I was quoted $400 to just replace the 50amp plug with the wall connector or $500 to replace the breaker with a 60amp.

That seems worth the extra $100 to me but I'm still considering whether to just use the mobile connector. So I think these are my options:

$230: 30A / 27 MPH - Mobile Connector
$200: 40A / 30 MPH - Corded Mobile Connector - (but unavailable)
$825: 50A / 37 MPH - Replace existing plug with Wall Connector ($425 wall connector + $400 installation)
$925: 60A / 44 MPH - Install 60a circuit and Wall Connector ($425 wall connector +$500 installation)

I don't think I really need more than 27 MPH so I will probably just go with the Mobile Connector for now. If I ever decide to do the wall connector I think it's worth the extra $100 (to get bragging rights if nothing else).

 

[DuncanM]

We just bought a Model Y Performance and I found this site looking for the answer to this question.

I have a similar setup. I was quoted $400 to just replace the 50amp plug with the wall connector or $500 to replace the breaker with a 60amp.

That seems worth the extra $100 to me but I'm still considering whether to just use the mobile connector. So I think these are my options:

$230: 30A / 27 MPH - Mobile Connector
$200: 40A / 30 MPH - Corded Mobile Connector - (but unavailable)
$825: 50A / 37 MPH - Replace existing plug with Wall Connector ($425 wall connector + $400 installation)
$925: 60A / 44 MPH - Install 60a circuit and Wall Connector ($425 wall connector +$500 installation)

I don't think I really need more than 27 MPH so I will probably just go with the Mobile Connector for now. If I ever decide to do the wall connector I think it's worth the extra $100 (to get bragging rights if nothing else).

Whatever you decide, I'd suggest having an EVSE (preferably a Mobile Connector) in the car at all times. So if one didn't come with the car then you might want two EVSEs.

 

[Zacster]

I would enquire about the 40a corded connector directly to see how long the wait would be. That seems to be the best solution. I put a wall connector in myself for an M3 SR+ and I get 30mph on 32A. It is enough that I never give charging any thought anymore. You can get faster charging but would it make any difference to how you use the car?