Do i need stickier tires?

[FatherTo1]

We have a 2019 Raven Standard Range and when I put down the power to pass, or merge onto the freeway, I feel the car sort of veering the right then left. It is not so bad that I cross over to the next lane but enough that I anticipate it and make small steerimg corrections during periods of hard acceleration. Basically, it doesn't track straight under moderate to heavy power. I am currently on Pirelli P7 Cinturato Plus Grand Touring tires because I love the quietness and ride quality of this tire on my previous Lexus LS. Would switching to Michelin Pilot Sport AS 3+ tires help?

The hated the Pilot Sport AS3+ on the LS (too noisy and rough ride), but maybe it was a bad idea pairing an ultra high performance tire with a flagship luxury vehicle. The PS AS3+ seems very popular with the Tesla crowd.

 

[BigNick]

These cars have massive torque, what you are most likely experiencing is torque steer rather than traction loss.

Try rolling on the throttle a bit more gently at first, double-check tire pressures and lug nut torque.

I would hate to see you spend over $1K on new tires to find it doesn’t really solve anything.

 

[2101Guy]

agreed on this being torque via the front drive unit. 99% positive tires will make zero difference.
Only thing that would make a difference is if under those conditions, less power were put to the front motor and a bit more to the rear.

Also..this isnt just a Tesla thing. All wheel drive high performance cars have the same trait i.e. current higher end AMG mercedes. (or any car putting out 500+ hp via all wheel drive). Not an issue when straight ahead, but anytime you have the wheels turned and your are accelerating hard, torque steer can be felt. Some mfrs do things to try to mask it (different length drive shafts, electronic sensors) but its there

 

[dark cloud]

Sounds to me like the road is not smooth; are there any troughs in the lanes where the tires travel, especially in the right lane where the semi trucks drive?

Is it at the same merging area? are you always passing on the same section of freeway?

Do this: go to a nice smooth large piece of tarmac/ashphalt, like a Walmart parking lot very early or late in the day when there are no parked cars of course, and repeat the acceleration with the same various steering inputs on the car. You might not be able to do a 60-80 pass depending on the size of the parking lot, but it should give a good base of comparison. Or go to a newly paved freeway entrance/exit and repeat.

First ensure you have properly inflated tires, maybe check the wheel nut torques.

I guarantee it is not due to a lack of traction from the Pirelli's, I broke loose the Goodyear A/S all the time with my P85D and I never got a veering or torque steering sensation like a front wheel drive vehicle from the 80's going over uneven pavement. The drivetrain and traction control software on the model S is phenomenal. And if it was an issue of the P7's having tracking problems going over bumps I would have read this before: I have done a ton of research on tires and I am 80% sure I will buying the P7 all season plus II's in a couple of months over the Michelin A/S for the very reason you gave, comfort and mileage.

edit: but also, I haven't driven a Raven with the different front motor, did they change the power delivery balance front to rear compared to previous versions of the S? Don't know....

 

[FatherTo1]

Sounds to me like the road is not smooth; are there any troughs in the lanes where the tires travel, especially in the right lane where the semi trucks drive?

Is it at the same merging area? are you always passing on the same section of freeway?

Do this: go to a nice smooth large piece of tarmac/ashphalt, like a Walmart parking lot very early or late in the day when there are no parked cars of course, and repeat the acceleration with the same various steering inputs on the car. You might not be able to do a 60-80 pass depending on the size of the parking lot, but it should give a good base of comparison. Or go to a newly paved freeway entrance/exit and repeat.

First ensure you have properly inflated tires, maybe check the wheel nut torques.

I guarantee it is not due to a lack of traction from the Pirelli's, I broke loose the Goodyear A/S all the time with my P85D and I never got a veering or torque steering sensation like a front wheel drive vehicle from the 80's going over uneven pavement. The drivetrain and traction control software on the model S is phenomenal. And if it was an issue of the P7's having tracking problems going over bumps I would have read this before: I have done a ton of research on tires and I am 80% sure I will buying the P7 all season plus II's in a couple of months over the Michelin A/S for the very reason you gave, comfort and mileage.

edit: but also, I haven't driven a Raven with the different front motor, did they change the power delivery balance front to rear compared to previous versions of the S? Don't know....

Thanks for the help, everyone. They are building out the neighborhood and there's a new smooth stretch of road I used to use for 0-60 testing to confirm the performance specs. Achieved 0-60 a few months ago in 4.07 seconds with some slippage and wheelspin from the fairly new Pirelli P7+. I think there was a little torque steer when I did those launches but not as noticeable as when I'm doing normal driving and punching it. In the Lexus forums the P7+ are a beloved tire choice but also have some reports of tramlining, so maybe that's the reason on freeways but I also experience it on city roads in normal driving. As you guys say, I probably just need to apply the power more gently.

As for power delivery, the Ravens deliver the speed in a more refined fashion. It doesn't hit as hard nor snap your neck like a pre-Raven (which is part of all the fun and appeal of early Teslas), despite the slightly faster Raven acceleration specs compared to a 75D.

@dark cloud, please share your experience with the P7+ Gen II tires. I am very curious about those as well. The P7+ is wearing pretty quickly (down 2/32nd after just the first 5000-mile tire change). I don't drive that aggressively (averaging 266 Wh/m), but I think the 90% city-driving that I do with lots of regen is wearing the tires quickly. I am not sure what to go with next -- P7+ Gen II or Vredenstein Quatrac Pro.

 

[Alysashley79]

I have both sets of these tires. I purchased a set of wheels from someone to mount my winter tires in and they had practically brand new Pirelli tires. (Same ones you have) my car came with Michelin pilot sport a/s 3+ but I have no clue how long they’d been on the car when I bought it. After 15k miles they needed to be replaced. so I decided to run the pirellis.

I have a p85D. My car will pull a 0-60 in 3.1 seconds. I hate the Pirellis. Yes they were quiet. But they aren’t performance tires. They’re squishy around corners. Squishy on the take off. After 5,000 miles I had them swapped out for my winters and Black Friday purchased another set of Michelin’s. 7,500 miles into them and still love them.

Check with your local Costco but I know mine has a 30 day guaranty one their tires (they sell the Michelin’s) try them and see what you think.

 

[FatherTo1]

I have both sets of these tires. I purchased a set of wheels from someone to mount my winter tires in and they had practically brand new Pirelli tires. (Same ones you have) my car came with Michelin pilot sport a/s 3+ but I have no clue how long they’d been on the car when I bought it. After 15k miles they needed to be replaced. so I decided to run the pirellis.

I have a p85D. My car will pull a 0-60 in 3.1 seconds. I hate the Pirellis. Yes they were quiet. But they aren’t performance tires. They’re squishy around corners. Squishy on the take off. After 5,000 miles I had them swapped out for my winters and Black Friday purchased another set of Michelin’s. 7,500 miles into them and still love them.

Check with your local Costco but I know mine has a 30 day guaranty one their tires (they sell the Michelin’s) try them and see what you think.

Thanks for sharing, @Alysashley79. That's a great description, the Pirellis do indeed feel squishy in the corners. Now you've really piqued my curiosity and I may have to sample the Pilot Sport AS3+ again on a proper car.

 

[Dukeybootie]

I had read a lot of mixed reviews on the Gen I Pirelli Cinturato P7, but only positive things on the Gen II. Decided to give them a try, especially with the 70,000 mile warranty. After 900 miles so far, I have no complaints. There is an isolated 1/8-mile merging ramp I hit every morning where I like to open things up and the Gen II tires have been just fine. Also no tramlining on a notorious weaving grooved stretch of freeway on my evening commute.

I did cross shop the Pirellis with the Pilot Sport AS3+ as well but read too many reports of a high efficiency hit and rapid wear, so decided against them. Battery % consumption on the Pirellis has been unchanged compared to my previous 3 sets of Michelin Primacy OEMs but I am keeping a close eye on them as I accumulate more miles/data. This despite upsizing from 19" to 20" so I'm pretty happy so far.

 

[terryna]

I have both sets of these tires. I purchased a set of wheels from someone to mount my winter tires in and they had practically brand new Pirelli tires. (Same ones you have) my car came with Michelin pilot sport a/s 3+ but I have no clue how long they’d been on the car when I bought it. After 15k miles they needed to be replaced. so I decided to run the pirellis.

I have a p85D. My car will pull a 0-60 in 3.1 seconds. I hate the Pirellis. Yes they were quiet. But they aren’t performance tires. They’re squishy around corners. Squishy on the take off. After 5,000 miles I had them swapped out for my winters and Black Friday purchased another set of Michelin’s. 7,500 miles into them and still love them.

Check with your local Costco but I know mine has a 30 day guaranty one their tires (they sell the Michelin’s) try them and see what you think.

Nice sharing

 

[BrokerDon]

My 2015 P85D came with 21" Continental ContiSportContact tires on a set of "square" Tesla Turbines. Handled & launched well... but I loved the look and the significantly lighter weight of the "staggered" Arachnids so I got a brand new set from a Tesla Rewards recipient with Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires. Definite improvement in handling and launching... and they seem quieter too. I also get a lot more compliments on the Arachnids. They'd be my choice on the even more powerful Raven.

 

[Kandiru]

Bridgestone Potenza S04 softies here, I waste a set in two summers, even though I have alignment added at my cost every year at service. The price of fun, two techs were laughing with me how I was not the only one with similar experiences.

I prefer wearing out tires than skidding out, remember that loss of control in these super heavy cars can be very hard to counter once it happens.

Also I refuse to buy tires manufactured outside of Germany or Japan, free people still take pride in what they do, the Axis endures

 

[Alysashley79]

I had read a lot of mixed reviews on the Gen I Pirelli Cinturato P7, but only positive things on the Gen II. Decided to give them a try, especially with the 70,000 mile warranty. After 900 miles so far, I have no complaints. There is an isolated 1/8-mile merging ramp I hit every morning where I like to open things up and the Gen II tires have been just fine. Also no tramlining on a notorious weaving grooved stretch of freeway on my evening commute.

I did cross shop the Pirellis with the Pilot Sport AS3+ as well but read too many reports of a high efficiency hit and rapid wear, so decided against them. Battery % consumption on the Pirellis has been unchanged compared to my previous 3 sets of Michelin Primacy OEMs but I am keeping a close eye on them as I accumulate more miles/data. This despite upsizing from 19" to 20" so I'm pretty happy so far.

FWIW my pirellis are gen II. I blew one after 50 miles with a branch through the sidewall. I had it replaced and confirmed with my local tire shop that they were all the gen II.

the Michelin’s are a little noisier but just slightly not even really that noticeable. I’ve put 7,500 miles on them since February when I had them mounted (took winter off early) and just had them rotated...all four tires are 8/10ths.

on my old p85 with the Michelin primary’s I was LUCKY to get 15k out of a set of tires. So far I’m happy with the wear on these.

if also like to add that sometimes asking about tires is like comparing shoes. To me a pair could be comfy and nice and to another they’re awful and hurt. Our driving styles will greatly determine which tires we like. My husband and I both have quite the lead foot and enjoy the heck out of the performance aspect of the car.

 

[Dukeybootie]

FWIW my pirellis are gen II. I blew one after 50 miles with a branch through the sidewall. I had it replaced and confirmed with my local tire shop that they were all the gen II.

the Michelin’s are a little noisier but just slightly not even really that noticeable. I’ve put 7,500 miles on them since February when I had them mounted (took winter off early) and just had them rotated...all four tires are 8/10ths.

on my old p85 with the Michelin primary’s I was LUCKY to get 15k out of a set of tires. So far I’m happy with the wear on these.

if also like to add that sometimes asking about tires is like comparing shoes. To me a pair could be comfy and nice and to another they’re awful and hurt. Our driving styles will greatly determine which tires we like. My husband and I both have quite the lead foot and enjoy the heck out of the performance aspect of the car.

If you've been on the Michelins since February, I'm pretty sure the Pirellis you had before that were not Gen II. They were released in mid February this year.

Pirelli updates Cinturato P7 All Season Plus line
Pirelli Releases Cinturato P7 All Season Plus II

No need to confirm with a tire shop if they are Gen II or not -- you can see it on the sidewall.

Not trying to be difficult or anything, but if the Gen II tire truly is significantly improved, I think user reviews should reflect that accurately.

Completely agree that asking about tires can be super subjective and heavily dependent on driving styles.

 

[dark cloud]

If you've been on the Michelins since February, I'm pretty sure the Pirellis you had before that were not Gen II. They were released in mid February this year.

Pirelli updates Cinturato P7 All Season Plus line
Pirelli Releases Cinturato P7 All Season Plus II

No need to confirm with a tire shop if they are Gen II or not -- you can see it on the sidewall.

Not trying to be difficult or anything, but if the Gen II tire truly is significantly improved, I think user reviews should reflect that accurately.

Completely agree that asking about tires can be super subjective and heavily dependent on driving styles.


View attachment 564367

There was a Pirelli Cinturato P7 all season, then there was the all season plus, and now the all season plus II

So perhaps @Alysashley79 is thinking (or was told) the all season plus version is the gen 2 Pirelli p7 Cinturato, so in a way the all season plus II is actually gen 3.... it can get a little confusing for sure

https://blog.tirerack.com/blog/bens...p7-all-season-vs-cinturato-p7-all-season-plus

 

[Dukeybootie]

Can't wait for the P7 All Season Plus II Turbo S Limited special edition next!

You are right, it is pretty confusing. I had to confirm with the tire shop twice before pulling the trigger. Three other tire places I inquired with insisted they had the II but actually did not.

 

[r1200gs4ok]

There was a Pirelli Cinturato P7 all season, then there was the all season plus, and now the all season plus II

So perhaps @Alysashley79 is thinking (or was told) the all season plus version is the gen 2 Pirelli p7 Cinturato, so in a way the all season plus II is actually gen 3.... it can get a little confusing for sure

https://blog.tirerack.com/blog/bens...p7-all-season-vs-cinturato-p7-all-season-plus

Boy...that "700" rating means that is one hell hard tire....bet you'll feel every rock on the road

 

[Catbiscuits]

I'm going to hijack this thread—just a little!—to ask about what the ideal rim and tire combination for a Model S might be (I have a 2017 AWD 90D with 19" silver slipstream rims and Goodyear Eagle touring tires stock from Tesla). In the past, I've had a BMW 3 series with low-profile run-flat ultra-high performance summer only tires. While those made me feel like I was glued to the road, they also made my wife and kids curse me for the rough ride (here in Jersey, our roads are made of potholes strung together). Is there really any advantage going to bigger and lower-profile? It looks cooler, but beyond that?

 

[dark cloud]

Is there really any advantage going to bigger and lower-profile? It looks cooler, but beyond that?

Well that is a subjective statement. The advantage is you get to spend several hundred more for a set of tires. No wait, that is not an advantage....
I love the looks of Arachnids, here is post of mine from almost 2 years ago: I also think these cars look pretty cool too:

21 inch turbine wheel crack survey