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Do supercharger users not care about price?

bradtem

Robocar consultant
Dec 18, 2018
359
524
Sunnyvale, CA
Yikes those prices are getting high. I must admit that since I still have referral free miles I don't see it but don't you get a statement about your supercharging if you are paying? Or do you have to go look at it in the app or site to see it? Yes, I agree many are unaware. I often click on the chargers for to see their charge rate and number of stalls when I am picking so I see the prices. And yesterday I charged at a 49 cent one. I am not going to like that once I start paying. Hotel charging will become worth more. A full hotel charge will save you $25 or more plus the convenience, so you start being willing to pay a fair bit more for the hotel if it has charging.

Last night I happened to find a realtor office next to my hotel. They let me charge for $5.
 
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I
Yikes those prices are getting high. I must admit that since I still have referral free miles I don't see it but don't you get a statement about your supercharging if you are paying? Or do you have to go look at it in the app or site to see it? Yes, I agree many are unaware. I often click on the chargers for to see their charge rate and number of stalls when I am picking so I see the prices. And yesterday I charged at a 49 cent one. I am not going to like that once I start paying. Hotel charging will become worth more. A full hotel charge will save you $25 or more plus the convenience, so you start being willing to pay a fair bit more for the hotel if it has charging.

Last night I happened to find a realtor office next to my hotel. They let me charge for $5.
it will show up on your credit card once your free miles are used up.
 
Yikes those prices are getting high. I must admit that since I still have referral free miles I don't see it but don't you get a statement about your supercharging if you are paying? Or do you have to go look at it in the app or site to see it? Yes, I agree many are unaware. I often click on the chargers for to see their charge rate and number of stalls when I am picking so I see the prices. And yesterday I charged at a 49 cent one. I am not going to like that once I start paying. Hotel charging will become worth more. A full hotel charge will save you $25 or more plus the convenience, so you start being willing to pay a fair bit more for the hotel if it has charging.

Last night I happened to find a realtor office next to my hotel. They let me charge for $5.
You have to look at the site on the display in your car. The website doesn't show the pricing.
 
There's a reason the CMS and Santana Row superchargers are busiest during mealtimes and on the weekends, the mentality of many is we'll "charge while we eat", not we'll go "eat while we charge" as if on a road trip. Meaning, you'll see a lot of families getting out of the car to have a meal or snacks, walk around, they're going to a destination, and maybe the supercharger factored into the choice of locale. But if the supercharger is full, the cars don't line up or leave for the next supercharger - they park in a regular stall and go eat as they planned to; getting a full charge is a secondary concern.

Also not mentioned in this thread is that Santana Row has a couple of other choices - valet Supercharging and free Tesla destination chargers (a lot of them). One could ask a similar question, why pay $8-10 for valet on top of your Supercharging fee, when you can drive up the ramp and NOT pay the $8-10. Or if it's all about price, why not use the free destination charger at an effective 100% discount? To me, it's the same answer, they're there to "charge while they eat", not the other way around.

And speaking of eating, a family of four dining out there is going to be spending $100-200 on top of the electricity needed to get there and home. Plus maybe more for shopping, dessert or drinks. It's the family destination time - a $12 difference in charging cost is just a convenience fee for the entertainment. Just like the huge Valley Fair mall next door has no supercharging at all, but just started charging for its parking structures - is anyone NOT going to go there or park there because it'll be a few bucks more than at the other shopping centers nearby? No, most are still going to park and shop there regardless.
 
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avs007

Active Member
May 14, 2021
1,020
944
PacNW
Also not mentioned in this thread is that Santana Row has a couple of other choices - valet Supercharging and free Tesla destination chargers (a lot of them). One could ask a similar question, why pay $8-10 for valet on top of your Supercharging fee, when you can drive up the ramp and NOT pay the $8-10. Or if it's all about price, why not use the free destination charger at an effective 100% discount? To me, it's the same answer, they're there to "charge while they eat", not the other way around.
Is there a time limit on the destination chargers there? I'll actually be there in like 2 weeks, so this is good information, haha.
 

bradtem

Robocar consultant
Dec 18, 2018
359
524
Sunnyvale, CA
There's a reason the CMS and Santana Row superchargers are busiest during mealtimes and on the weekends, the mentality of many is we'll "charge while we eat", not we'll go "eat while we charge" as if on a road trip. Meaning, you'll see a lot of families getting out of the car to have a meal or snacks, walk around, they're going to a destination, and maybe the supercharger factored into the choice of locale. But if the supercharger is full, the cars don't line up or leave for the next supercharger - they park in a regular stall and go eat as they planned to; getting a full charge is a secondary concern.

Also not mentioned in this thread is that Santana Row has a couple of other choices - valet Supercharging and free Tesla destination chargers (a lot of them). One could ask a similar question, why pay $8-10 for valet on top of your Supercharging fee, when you can drive up the ramp and NOT pay the $8-10. Or if it's all about price, why not use the free destination charger at an effective 100% discount? To me, it's the same answer, they're there to "charge while they eat", not the other way around.

And speaking of eating, a family of four dining out there is going to be spending $100-200 on top of the electricity needed to get there and home. Plus maybe more for shopping, dessert or drinks. It's the family destination time - a $12 difference in charging cost is just a convenience fee for the entertainment. Just like the huge Valley Fair mall next door has no supercharging at all, but just started charging for its parking structures - is anyone NOT going to go there or park there because it'll be a few bucks more than at the other shopping centers nearby? No, most are still going to park and shop there regardless.
I am the high priest of "charge while you eat.". I did not include Santana in the comparison for that reason. Though frankly, food down there is not as good as it was but the ambience is nice. Though locals with plenty of money tend to charge at home.
 

Earl

Member
Jan 22, 2014
560
730
USA
There's a reason the CMS and Santana Row superchargers are busiest during mealtimes and on the weekends, the mentality of many is we'll "charge while we eat",
I suspect this partially explains why Supercharger prices have gone up so much so suddenly, especially in California.
California time of use rates suddenly switched so that peak rates are from ~4:00 pm to 9:00 pm.
 

bradtem

Robocar consultant
Dec 18, 2018
359
524
Sunnyvale, CA
I suspect this partially explains why Supercharger prices have gone up so much so suddenly, especially in California.
California time of use rates suddenly switched so that peak rates are from ~4:00 pm to 9:00 pm.
That's been the peak time for years in Silicon Valley for EVs. Well, in the summer, the price is 3x the night in this time, 2x from 3-4 and 9-12 and 1x (18 cents) from midnight to 3pm. That's a lot of charging time at home, but 18 cents is a very high off-peak rate, nationally.
 
That's been the peak time for years in Silicon Valley for EVs. Well, in the summer, the price is 3x the night in this time, 2x from 3-4 and 9-12 and 1x (18 cents) from midnight to 3pm. That's a lot of charging time at home, but 18 cents is a very high off-peak rate, nationally.
18¢? On what plan? It's 24.7¢ on EV-B and 24.5¢ on EV2-A. And in the latter case, in exchange for these rates, they'll rip you off 55.7¢/kWh for running the air conditioner on hot summer afternoons. That's why I just put myself on E-TOU-D instead.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
7,314
7,293
Los Altos, CA
18¢? On what plan? It's 24.7¢ on EV-B and 24.5¢ on EV2-A. And in the latter case, in exchange for these rates, they'll rip you off 55.7¢/kWh for running the air conditioner on hot summer afternoons. That's why I just put myself on E-TOU-D instead.
As recently as December 2021 EV2-A was 18.6¢/kWh Off-Peak. Unfortunately, you're correct. It's now 24.5¢/kWh.
 
As recently as December 2021 EV2-A was 18.6¢/kWh Off-Peak. Unfortunately, you're correct. It's now 24.5¢/kWh.
As recently as when I was discussing my service upgrade with my electrician (and considering the option of installing two meters so I could go on EV-B), it was something like 12-14¢/kWh off-peak. This was approximately 18-24 months ago. So off-peak rates on the EV plans have gone up 75-100% in the last ~2 years.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
7,314
7,293
Los Altos, CA
As recently as when I was discussing my service upgrade with my electrician (and considering the option of installing two meters so I could go on EV-B), it was something like 12-14¢/kWh off-peak. This was approximately 18-24 months ago. So off-peak rates on the EV plans have gone up 75-100% in the last ~2 years.
While we're being nostalgic, PG&E E-9A was 3.855¢/kWh Baseline Summer Off-Peak when I first got solar and EV in 2013. Keep in mind that with solar, you never pay anything over Baseline in the Summer because your solar is pushing down your net usage so it's always less than Baseline. The Peak started at 2pm on this rate, so you got solar credits at 31¢ and got to charge your car overnight at 4¢. Part-Peak started at 7am, so even the morning solar earned more than 2X what it cost to charge overnight. That deal was way to sweet to last....

PG&E E9-A 2013-05-01.jpg


You may also notice that the monthly minimum charge was <$4.50/mo too.
 
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bradtem

Robocar consultant
Dec 18, 2018
359
524
Sunnyvale, CA
As recently as December 2021 EV2-A was 18.6¢/kWh Off-Peak. Unfortunately, you're correct. It's now 24.5¢/kWh.
When did that happen? They usually email when there is an increase like that. That's crazy, but of course I can chose my electric company just by moving. (Annoyingly my neighbours 200 feet away are on Santa Clara power which is about 10 cents.)
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
7,314
7,293
Los Altos, CA
When did that happen? They usually email when there is an increase like that. That's crazy, but of course I can chose my electric company just by moving. (Annoyingly my neighbours 200 feet away are on Santa Clara power which is about 10 cents.)
Haha. You're funny. When did PG&E ever tell people rates were going up? They go up like clockwork 3 to 6 times per year, every year. In this particular case, EV2-A rates changed on December 1, 2021, January 1, 2022, and March 1, 2022. I'm actually surprised that there was not a May 1, 2022 rate change.


Historical rates:
 
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While we're being nostalgic, PG&E E-9A was 3.855¢/kWh Baseline Summer Off-Peak when I first got solar and EV in 2013. Keep in mind that with solar, you never pay anything over Baseline in the Summer because your solar is pushing down your net usage so it's always less than Baseline. The Peak started at 2pm on this rate, so you got solar credits at 31¢ and got to charge your car overnight at 4¢. Part-Peak started at 7am, so even the morning solar earned more than 2X what it cost to charge overnight. That deal was way to sweet to last....

View attachment 808588

You may also notice that the monthly minimum charge was <$4.50/mo too.
Yep, and they'll just keep raising rates and the CPUC will just keep rubber stamping their proposals. This is why I chose not to install a second meter. I may have never seen the savings from installing it and if PG&E chooses to yank the rug out from under you before you get your return on investment, you have no recourse. Even worse, they could make it where EV-B doesn't save you anything and it's more desirable to just have a single meter and then I'd have to spend even more money switching service back to a single 400A meter. Also, SCE has already started to phase out separate EV meters so I think other CA utilities will probably do the same.
 

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