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Do you have enough solar to go off grid in winter?
- Thread starter getakey
- Start date
It also matters if your heating is gas or electric.
With electric heating, I think it would be impossible to get through the Winter without some other generation source (like burning firewood or running a generator or wind). So yeah, going truly off grid seems like a tough sell with current tech. Plus most homes in California have small lots so it's hard to fit enough panels. Where's that Mr. Fusion when you need it...
yes, agree heating is a key factor. I'm half/half. That is half my house heated by heat pump, the other half NG furnace
DirtyT3sla
Member
Not even close. Not only is there less light sun time and more clouds, but the vehicles use more energy in the winter to heat and drive.
In general, the answer for this is going to be "almost no one, unless they specced their install specifically for off grid operation".
If someone has enough PV to "stay off grid" in winter, they will have WAAAAY too much PV being generated during "most" of the year, probably from March to October. They would have to have significantly overbuilt (and been allowed to put in that much PV, which utilities tend to not want you to do).
As I am sure you are aware, this is also like asking "how much power do you use daily" or something, in which the answer is not only specific to a specific home, but how many residents are in that home... so in a tract home, two families in the exact same styled home could have WILDLY different electricity usage.
Trying to compare something like this is worse than trying to compare online "whats everyone paying for car insurance" or something, as it relates to the information actually meaning something to someone else other than the specific home / individual.
With that being said, people ask about insurance all the time, so I get the curiosity around this as well.
For me specifically, it also depends on what you mean by "can go off grid". Do you mean "Live like you normally live", or do you mean "Survive, in the case of the zombie apocalypse".
I dont have enough PV to live like normal during the winter, but since I have gas heating and cooking, as well as BBQ grills outside that I can use to cook with, I Could reduce electric use down to a point where I could "be off grid" during the winter during "the apocalypse", since my house would be heated, and I could reduce my home usage down to a point where my PV would cover it. I wouldnt be anywhere close to living like normal, though.
If someone has enough PV to "stay off grid" in winter, they will have WAAAAY too much PV being generated during "most" of the year, probably from March to October. They would have to have significantly overbuilt (and been allowed to put in that much PV, which utilities tend to not want you to do).
As I am sure you are aware, this is also like asking "how much power do you use daily" or something, in which the answer is not only specific to a specific home, but how many residents are in that home... so in a tract home, two families in the exact same styled home could have WILDLY different electricity usage.
Trying to compare something like this is worse than trying to compare online "whats everyone paying for car insurance" or something, as it relates to the information actually meaning something to someone else other than the specific home / individual.
With that being said, people ask about insurance all the time, so I get the curiosity around this as well.
For me specifically, it also depends on what you mean by "can go off grid". Do you mean "Live like you normally live", or do you mean "Survive, in the case of the zombie apocalypse".
I dont have enough PV to live like normal during the winter, but since I have gas heating and cooking, as well as BBQ grills outside that I can use to cook with, I Could reduce electric use down to a point where I could "be off grid" during the winter during "the apocalypse", since my house would be heated, and I could reduce my home usage down to a point where my PV would cover it. I wouldnt be anywhere close to living like normal, though.
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I totally agree. A properly sized system returns a Zero NEM payment at True Up. Anything more is not going to get any ROI unless someone is planning adding EV or some other big usage in the future.
I'll be totally transparent here. Someone on another forum said that they are 100% independent from PG&E (although they are still connected to the grid. I challenged them as I said it would have to be a very big, very expensive solar/battery system to achieve that. They insist they are, but refuse to give specifics, although he did mention Enphase.
Here's his post:
"I got 100% Independant from PG&E and it’s costing way less per month. Don’t have to deal with power outages either. Costs nothing to do it. Message me if you’d like help."
Thats appears to me to be like a solar rep trying to sell solar + batteries (not necessarily tesla batteries). The "message me if you would like help" means that they dont want whatever the response as a regular post, for "reasons" (probably because they are trying to sell something "boy let me tell you how this deal works, you are gonna LOVE it, you only need to front me XXX dollars" it).
Whomever posted that can be completely ignored imo, and if I saw that here, I would remove it and put it in a mod only subform we have for people trying to advertise.
I thought the same in terms of he is trying to sell something, but based on subsequent posts, I'm not totally convinced
There's a non-zero chance the guy posting is William Coekarts or Derrick Zearley ... but yeah whatever forum you're on probably has someone who is confusing NEM with being truly off grid.
Coekarts has 75 total solar panels and a Powerpack for a 2,800 square foot house. He never grid-tied his home; he is off grid because he was never on grid. Surprisingly it was pretty much cheaper for him to do this than to trench a power line to his house.
Oracle exec built his own microgrid to escape America’s unreliable power grid
An Oracle executive has built his own personal power grid in Northern California in place of relying on the lower grid. To power his home in the town of Woodside, in California’s San Mateo County, Wim Coekaerts decided to forego connecting to the local power grid. Instead, faced with the cost of...
solartechreview.com
Zearley did 60 solar panels + 20 kW gas generator and 4x Powerwalls.
When the utilities left him stranded, a homeowner went off-grid with solar + storage
Many homeowners might have given up and bought a different home when faced with the utility hassle that landowner Derrick Zearley experienced. Instead, he
www.solarpowerworldonline.com
I remember someone posting about some home in the Los Altos hills also grid defecting... but they needed a monster solar + ESS with on-site propane/gas generator as well.
The recurring theme is land + money = winning.
funny, I posted that same article about the Oracle guy already in the other forumThere's a non-zero chance the guy posting is William Coekarts or Derrick Zearley ... but yeah whatever forum you're on probably has someone who is confusing NEM with being truly off grid.
Coekarts has 75 total solar panels and a Powerpack for a 2,800 square foot house. He never grid-tied his home; he is off grid because he was never on grid. Surprisingly it was pretty much cheaper for him to do this than to trench a power line to his house.
Oracle exec built his own microgrid to escape America’s unreliable power grid
An Oracle executive has built his own personal power grid in Northern California in place of relying on the lower grid. To power his home in the town of Woodside, in California’s San Mateo County, Wim Coekaerts decided to forego connecting to the local power grid. Instead, faced with the cost of...
Zearley did 60 solar panels + 20 kW gas generator and 4x Powerwalls.
When the utilities left him stranded, a homeowner went off-grid with solar + storage
Many homeowners might have given up and bought a different home when faced with the utility hassle that landowner Derrick Zearley experienced. Instead, he
I remember someone posting about some home in the Los Altos hills also grid defecting... but they needed a monster solar + ESS with on-site propane/gas generator as well.
The recurring theme is land + money = winning.
Sorry, but I am going to chime in with a contrarian view here. The ability to be off grid in winter relying solely on PV and batteries is a function of the energy gain/loss from the house. Heavily insulated homes often stay perfectly comfortable from parasitic heat losses and passive solar during the winter.
I would reframe the winter energy question as more of a "how much power does your home need" in winter and summer, as the same effect applies in reverse for many homes in hot climates, where it can take even more energy to keep a home cool.
Your mileage will definitely vary. I think that my home leaks air like a sieve, despite moderate efforts on my part, but I am not ready, yet, to rip off the exterior for a better seal, nor to replace all of the windows, in part because the energy efficient windows suffer from real drawbacks vis-à-vis fire risk. Then there is also the payback period, which is... essentially forever for current energy and building costs.
All the best,
BG
I would reframe the winter energy question as more of a "how much power does your home need" in winter and summer, as the same effect applies in reverse for many homes in hot climates, where it can take even more energy to keep a home cool.
Your mileage will definitely vary. I think that my home leaks air like a sieve, despite moderate efforts on my part, but I am not ready, yet, to rip off the exterior for a better seal, nor to replace all of the windows, in part because the energy efficient windows suffer from real drawbacks vis-à-vis fire risk. Then there is also the payback period, which is... essentially forever for current energy and building costs.
All the best,
BG
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Yeah, being on TMC has taught me a lot of things. One day I'll live the new American Dream of having a custom home built... and there are a ton of wise choices for insulation, HVAC, etc that I'll consider. I just wish I had the money to retrofit my current house right now lol.
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DirtyT3sla
Member
I want to add a wind turbine to my system sooooo bad. It would make a massive difference in the winter which is high in wind and low in light. But it's hard to know exactly what would work well with the system and I think the cost would be too much.
skepticcyclist
Member
Yes for us as long as we turn off the pool pump, but all of our appliances are gas. We just may have difficulty if we get a lot of rainy days in a row.
skepticcyclist
Member
6 kW system. On sunny winter days we produce 20 to 25 kWh and use 25 kWh with the pool running. We turn off the pool pump we only use about 10-15 kWh for the house.
ETA: Here is our January (the lowest production month) usage and production with the pool running
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