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Do you have shudder on hard acceleration? AKA death rattle?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by dk10438, May 18, 2019.

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Do you have shudder on hard acceleration? AKA death rattle?

  1. Yes- Performance

    79 vote(s)
    26.9%
  2. Yes- Non-Performance

    122 vote(s)
    41.5%
  3. Have no idea what you're talking about.

    22 vote(s)
    7.5%
  4. No-Performance

    28 vote(s)
    9.5%
  5. No- Non-Performance

    43 vote(s)
    14.6%
  1. Brettski

    Brettski Supporting Member

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    Could someone please summarize in lay terms where the half shafts are and what they do?
     
  2. dk10438

    dk10438 Member

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    What I'm wondering is this. When I went to the SC the SA told me that they place the car in the high suspension setting and then do a full throttle punch to confirm the issue. And one of the Tesla band aid fixes is to only accelerate hard in the low position. Therefore, lowering the car obviously mitigates if not eliminates the issue. Many on TMC have eliminated the death rattle by lowering the car with drop links but one of the side effects is uneven tire wear on the inside of the tires. Xenoilphobe says that uneven tire wear can be eliminated by using camber links.

    Therefore, it would seem to me, that dropping the car and using camber links would permanently resolve the issue. So how come Tesla doesn't offer the permanent fix by lowering the car and using different camber links???
     
    • Like x 1
  3. sorka

    sorka Well-Known Member

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    In my experiencing, lowering that car with UNDAMAGED cv joints will eliminate the problem. If your cv joints are already damaged, then lowering the car might make it shake less but it will still shake.

    The real fix would be for Tesla to employee one of the two standard vibration damping devices that the industry uses on front drive shafts the are exposed to high torque. The first option which is least expensive and least costly is to use dampening doughnuts. These are round rubber disks that lessen vibration because they provide a mass that requires the higher momentum to get the shaft off center.

    The more costly and better device is the hanger that has a bearing insulated by rubber in a hanger that provides active vibration prevention.

    Until Tesla does either of these, there is no real fix.
     
  4. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    We had ours replaced a couple of months ago. Just before we went off warranty!
     
  5. sorka

    sorka Well-Known Member

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    Mine was last replaced 20K miles after I went off warranty because the third replacement failed 3K miles later at 53K miles. They have a 12K mile warranty replacement parts but asked me to hold on until they had a permanent fix. I got tired of waiting at 70K miles because the problem got much worse.
     
  6. sorka

    sorka Well-Known Member

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    I was told that it wouldn't damage anything and that it was safe....that is until I asked them to put that in writing. Nobody should believe this. Metal fatigue is a real thing. What is actually happening with the vibration is that the front wheels are oscillating back and fourth rapidly and violently, the center console experienced 0.8 g acceleration differential (-0.4 to +0.4). There's no way that this doesn't cause metal fatigue on most of the suspension arms/links over time.

    Front vibration when accelerating - accelerometer graphs....

    So when they tell you that it's ok to drive it that way and that it is safe, ask them to put that in writing. Or email them after they tell you this and summarize what they said and ask them to respond back to the email that it is indeed safe to drive and won't cause future suspension component failure.

    So far I've been lucky after lowering that car and the problem hasn't returned. But if it does, I'll ask them to fix it again even though it's out of warranty since if it does return, it just means it was never really fixed before.

    Who's to say that this problem documented in this and a dozen other threads:

    Another front suspension control arm failure

    Isn't actually caused by the cv shaft vibration problem?
     
  7. Droschke

    Droschke Active Member

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    #27 Droschke, May 19, 2019
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
    Not with my car. I've RWD car. No vibration/shudder. It just takes off smooth like a plane ;)

    On Edit: I've coil suspension.
     
  8. Droschke

    Droschke Active Member

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    Per Google search: A half shaft is essentially a drive axle, and it's so named because it does half of the job, extending from a transaxle or differential to one of the wheels.

    Image: http://tinyurl.com/yy7lbz96
     
  9. P100D_Me

    P100D_Me Member

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    Australia
    But here's the problem, the car does that itself.
    If I have a 'very high' location tagged in the GPS for speed bumps etc, after the car raises it will only drop back down to High from that point unless you manually change it to standard or low. So if people floor it with the suspension on High they might not even realise it was on High.
    I know because once I leave my driveway I drop it down to 'Low', you can bet within 20 mins of driving if I switch to the suspension settings it'll be on High and it wasn't me.
     
  10. dk10438

    dk10438 Member

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    I was responding to another poster that said that when he went to SC and they could not reproduce the problem so they couldn't fix it. If the car won't shudder at SC, try putting the car in high or very high setting and floor it. Once they hear the sound they'll know what to do. It seems to be a very common issue.
     
  11. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

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    Location:
    Timonium, Maryland
    I have the shudder on hard acceleration. I have a service center appt for annual service on Thursday, when I’ll have them address this. Fortunately my extended warranty is still valid.
     
  12. Oldschool496

    Oldschool496 Member

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    Sep 27, 2017
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    Florida
    Same here, after the bearings get warm it goes away. SO there is warming even in A Tesla, thought to be not the case. Perhaps you 100s out there are flooring it right out of the garage or right after work?
     
  13. Jboriss

    Jboriss New Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
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    3
    Location:
    San Diego
    I had this in my Model X non performance. Thought I had run over the curb or the wheels had come off. Also had an error message that reduced output to half power or something. Took it in. They replaced rear drive shaft.
     
  14. Blitz3RS

    Blitz3RS Member

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    Nov 2, 2018
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    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Ditto on the coil suspension being smooth (from my POV). Is this an air suspension issue primarily or anyone with coil eventually develop this problem?
     
    • Like x 1
  15. darkroommd

    darkroommd Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
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    Location:
    Atlanta
    Last week the SC told me that the vibration with acceleration was a recognized problem at check-in and I had a signed an agreement for shaft replacements.... at check-out I was told it was "normal" operation and they see it in all vehicles.

    But it didn't always occur. And just because it is happening to everyone, doesn't make it normal.

    That said, I just smh and didn't press them to fix anything. It's still pretty subtle in my vehicle with 20K miles.
     
  16. Dan Baldwin

    Dan Baldwin Member

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    Boulder Co
    I'm still not clear if the rattle indicates damage or not ? Or is it the case that it might be damaged ? If there is damage will it be obvious and will the SC fix it with no arguments ?
    I can absolutely live with it if its just a noise and I do plan on lowering the suspension for all future ludicrous demos.
     
  17. Brettski

    Brettski Supporting Member

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    Location:
    Palm Desert, CA
    Just a bit of followup; my car was at the service center Monday and Tuesday for this problem. (As I wrote previously they replaced a wheel bearing and tightened an axle nut in March to remedy the shudder) They again started by taking apart the frunk to make sure nothing was loose. I had mentioned to them that I read about the half-shaft problem and they did not acknowledge or let on that this was a common problem known to them. However - they ended up replacing both half shafts and jack shaft. The shudder is gone again. Based on what I've read here, I expect it to be back one of these days but for now, I'm back to silent acceleration.
     
  18. Max Headroom

    Max Headroom Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Calgary
    Yes, it indicates damage. Tesla has a design flaw with the front motor position relative to the range of angle at which it's drive shafts (half-shafts) operate. This causes excessive wear in the constant velocity joints at each end of the half-shaft. Mine needed replacement at 36,000 kms but again at just 46,000 kms with very few hard acceleration events. The fix promised are redesigned motor mounts that would reduce the movement of the motor itself relative to the frame, and thus reduce the operating angle of the half-shafts under load. So far no fix provided, so until then, happy half-shaft replacement day!
     
  19. P100D_Me

    P100D_Me Member

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    Makes you wonder what condition the guys car is in who has the Tesla racing channel on YouTube, that thing has done so many hard launches on high traction surfaces.
     
  20. dk10438

    dk10438 Member

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    Any updates on a permanent fix?
     

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