TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Do You Think Any Last-Minute Changes To Model 3 Were Made Because of Chevy Bolt?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by igotzzoom, Feb 20, 2016.

  1. igotzzoom

    igotzzoom Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    838
    Location:
    Laguna Hills, CA
    It seems the Chevy Bolt caught a lot of other automakers off-guard, both by its specs, and by its market timing. I'm wondering if its reveal or specs prompted any last-minute changes in the Model 3 design, or if Tesla and Elon anticipated or had advanced intel on the car, and will already be ahead of the game in range, performance, features etc. Thoughts?
     
  2. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,229
    Location:
    Palmdale, CA
    I didn't know the Bolt was a surprise. We had been speculating about it since 2014 over in the Volt forum. I think there was a investor call in October 2014 sometime where the 200-mile full EV Chevy was mentioned as a future car. So the Bolt's specs shouldn't have been a surprise to Tesla. Whether or not Tesla believed GM could do what it said it would do might be a different question.

    I doubt at this point any major changes will be made to the Model 3. They might change some of the included options to better compete, possibly. Or they could ignore Chevy since they are trying to go after the entry-level luxury folks.
     
  3. MsElectric

    MsElectric Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    1,611
    Location:
    New York
    If Tesla was planning to make the Model 3 a cramped, soulless, and uninspiring econo-vessel, I guess they'll have to do something different as GM has that segment covered :)
     
  4. Model 3

    Model 3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Norway
    Generally: No. And no "last minute change" on the prototype that will be shown next month. But that is just a prototype, and it will be changed a bit before "late 2017", and in that time they will be looking at the Bolt, and may do some adjustments to the production version based on that.

    The two things I see as possible adjustments is the battery size and what option to include in the basic version, and the price of the others. They may have been surprised when the final battery capacity of the Bolt was told, and may make the TM3 base-battery a bit bigger to be on par with - or better then - the Bolt. Lets say from 55kWh to 60kWh, or 60kWh to 65kWh. But this we will never know :) And while TM3 is the lowest priced of this two cars, it is possible that the Bolt will have more options included in the basic version. Therefore Tesla might choose to match what GM is offering here.
     
  5. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,890
    Location:
    Drammen, Norway
    No, I don't believe Tesla changed anything due to the Bolt specs.
     
  6. Ryan H

    Ryan H Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Berea, OH
    Increasing the battery capacity to match the Bolt doesn't make sense. Elon has said all along "200 real-world miles". By optimizing efficiency, they want the lowest capacity battery to achieve the objective. Being able to do more with less is a cost savings, both to Tesla and the driver. Putting in 5 kWh less per car (as an example) is significant at high volume. Having a car that can go 200 miles on 55 kWh is cheaper to operate than a car that goes 200 miles on 60 kWh. A lower capacity battery would also lower the weight of the car (better efficiency).
     
  7. cab

    cab Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2013
    Messages:
    327
    Location:
    Grapevine, TX
    By "last minute changes" do you mean "Did they erase and redraw" some parts of the drawing?
     
  8. JoRey

    JoRey Current Volt Owner, Aspiring Model III Owner

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2016
    Messages:
    81
    Location:
    Anaheim, CA
    We can assume that the Bolt gets at least 4 miles per Kwh, GM has historically been very conservative with the usable Kwh in their batteries.
     
  9. Model 3

    Model 3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Norway
    You have some good points here. But first of all we will have a look at what Elon said "at least 200 real-world miles". He has hinted on that this "real-world miles" is longer then the EPA miles. We do not know exact what this "200 real-world miles" will be in EPA, but there is a hint at 240 EPA miles, but it could be less, or it could be more. Lets just say that the TM3 have (at the moment) a 55kWh battery that goes 230 EPA miles, and Bolt have a 60kWh battery that gives them 225 EPA miles. Tesla may think the gap here is i bit tight, and want to extend it a bit, and goes for 60kWh battery with 240 EPA miles or 65kWh battery with 250 EPA miles. Yes, it will cost them 5kWh or 10kWh battery on every TM3 they sell, and thereby gives them lower margins. But they will probably make up for this by having more sale. Maybe not in the short run, but surely in the long run.... "Tesla, the cars with the biggest batteries and longest range in the industry". And this should be possible with the GF-I.
     
  10. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2014
    Messages:
    707
    Location:
    California
    I was very impressed by the Bolt.
     
  11. Fallenone

    Fallenone Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,459
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, CA
    I don't remember GM giving any description to their 200 miles claim. Given they quote the after incentive price, I would guess the 200 miles on the Bolt may not even be EPA mileage but an ideal mileage, which means less than 200 EPA miles and less real world miles. TM doesn't need to give a battery larger than 60 kWh to win the range and in fact, having a smaller battery with longer mileage is better in both profitability and marketing IMO.

     
  12. vforvortex

    vforvortex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    26
    Location:
    Texas
    From an historical standpoint, Tesla has gone from offering 40, 60, 70, 85, 90 kwh battery options and now has simplified that down to only 70D and 90D kwh. So, I don't think they will offer a 55, 60, 65 option because that might be going backwards a bit. I think they might keep it simple and just offer a 70kwh battery pack for the Model 3. They will probably be able to reduce the price of the pack to be reasonable for the Model 3 with economies of scale and maybe a new battery architecture. Easier to max production since all 3 cars will utilize same battery sizes.

    But also to go against my own point, Model 3 is smaller and will be on a new platform, so maybe they will go with the smaller 60kwh battery . :) Its fun to speculate.
     
  13. Ryan H

    Ryan H Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Berea, OH
    I don't think they'll care as long as they meet or exceed the range. Elon doesn't view the Bolt as the competition, so I think we're putting too much thought in comparing the two.

    If I were Elon, I would keep the cost of the battery down and keep the capacity down. If the limiting factor to selling cars is going to be the Gigafactory putting out batteries, lower is better.

    The other thing to remember is the Supercharger network. I think it would be smart for them to put the money into the network rather than a slightly higher capacity battery.
     
  14. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,229
    Location:
    Palmdale, CA

    Gosh, I hope there isn't just one battery option. THAT would be a *pause* moment for me on a Model 3 reservation. I am hoping to be able to spec out something nicer than a Bolt with a larger battery (under the assumption GM will stick to their history and only offer 1 battery). If they both have the same/similar batteries and I can max out the options on a Bolt for whats likely to be $10K less than a Tesla then I am gonna have to think REALLY hard about that. Then it would all come down to the value of the supercharging network in Texas in 2017 which is where I most likely will be. And I drive East/West in Texas to get to family, not North/South.
     
  15. igotzzoom

    igotzzoom Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    838
    Location:
    Laguna Hills, CA
    Not necessarily "erase and redraw," but maybe planning to make standard that which was originally going to be optional, or minor changes in content and features. I'm thinking the general design template was settled quite a while ago.
     
  16. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    1,978
    Location:
    SK
    I can't imagine anything that GM did with the Bolt that could could possibly throw Tesla for a loop. The Bolt is a pretty basic car, with not much in the way of innovation.
     
  17. Brad_NC

    Brad_NC Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    212
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Just to be clear, I'm not fan of the Bolt, but I am objective.

    Many of us may speculate that the Bolt's announcement and impending release will have little to no impact on the Model ≡ Design/Specs... but I assure you that EVERYTHING the Bolt is, will be closely examined and taken into consideration. Yes they are sure to be two clearly dissimilar vehicles. However, (all based on the base models...) the fact that their prices are just $2,500 apart, their driving range, seating capacity, etc will likely be very similar... it's foolish for any of us to think that the vehicles will not be in competition.

    Do I think that Tesla is in a scramble due to the Bolt? No.
    Do I think that Tesla is making major changes due to the Bolt? No.
    Do I think that Tesla needs to be conscious of the Bolt? Yes.

    No, I do not think that a Honda Fit and a BMW 328i are direct competitors, but if you consider the limited options on the EV market in the $30,000-40,000 range, you will begin to become more objective also.
     
  18. Darryl

    Darryl ModelXTracker.com Co-Adm

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2015
    Messages:
    491
    The Model is only a conception at this point. There is no prototype. Mr Musk made this clear at his speech in France. The Bolt is at most a sub compact car and according to Mr Musk the Model will be a luxury sedan smaller than the Model S. I am sure they will take into considerarion what is going on in the entire EV market place. We are also probably two years out from having a production car. Maybe even 3-4. Remember the Model S and Model X were both years delayed from conception to production. A lot can happen in the EV space during this time.
     
  19. Festerfeet

    Festerfeet Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2015
    Messages:
    148
    Location:
    Chengdu, Sichuan,China
    I am not suggesting that the M3 will not be delayed, lets face it Tesla has some form here but I am extremely doubtful that your assertion that there is no prototype is likely.
    Unless you are determined to misunderstand what was said by EM in France I am not sure how his comments could be interpreted as you have done.
     
  20. S3XY

    S3XY Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Messages:
    312
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    I guarantee there is a M3 prototype and it will be rolling out onto the stage in about 40 days. Can't wait!
     

Share This Page