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Does a Tesla Model X really need an odometer?

Discussion in 'Model X' started by Martin VanB, Feb 21, 2016.

  1. Martin VanB

    Martin VanB Member

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    Considering the Model X is an electric car, and has significantly fewer moving parts than an internal combustion engine vehicle; is an odometer reading really an appropriate representation of residual value?

    Would 20 000 miles in a Tesla really represent the same wear and tear it would for an ICE vehicle? Aside from tire tread and brake thickness, which are standard measures what would the ratio be?

    I would be hard pressed to find a correlation between ICE mileage and BEV mileage. Would one mile in an ICE equal three in an EV?

    Resale value needs to re-reassessed in this case.

    Just another reason in my opinion to buy EV.
     
  2. eloder

    eloder Member

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    I believe in due time, people will naturally realize that EV odometers mean significantly less. Just like how more reliable gas cars experience less residual decay from mileage.

    Unfortunately, the Leaf battery capacity fiasco, and early Tesla reliability issues are impacting this belief from taking hold to some extent.

    Until that happens, EV enthusiasts can get some incredibly fantastic deal on EVs that can easily last another couple hundred thousand miles with extremely little maintenance costs compared to gas cars. I imagine once you see a large handful of 200k, 300k, 400k+ mileage Teslas on the road with comparatively tiny maintenance costs, perceptions may start changing more rapidly.
     
  3. CTemp222

    CTemp222 Member

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    Theoretically BEV's will last much longer. The Model S is currently holding its value really well but this is probably more because of the company's name/ reputation than wear. I suspect that when other companies start making BEV's we will get a true indication of the resale values of a BEV.
     
  4. madodel

    madodel X at the end of a rainbow

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    Kind of funny you mention this. I had to take my 10 day old Model X to my local mechanic to do a required state inspection here in Pennsylvania. I had given them a brief overview of the car since they had never done a Tesla before. After about 10 minutes they came and asked me to go back to the bay where my car was because the mechanic had a question. He asked where to get the odometer reading. I had no idea so I had to call Tesla to ask them. For the record it is on the Τ window on the tablet.
     
  5. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    Yes, because it affects suspension parts, paint wear and tear, motor wear and tear, axle wear and tear, and general number of times a person got in and out of the car and sat in it, wearing out the interior. I'd also like to know hours of use (which would matter in places where someone wears out a car sitting in slow moving traffic), and cumulative G's going left, right, up, down, towing, forward, backwards, and number of WattHours used. These would give comparative wear and tear of the components.

    I wish I knew how many salt road hours it was driven.

    It won't be unusual for people to walk up to a used car in the future and ask "how many EPA miles on a full charge?" and then get that in writing at time of sale, to be fixed by seller if not true.
     
  6. Funky

    Funky Member

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    Would also be useful to know miles to have a feel for how many cycles the battery is likely to have done or a rough estimate of usage.
    Plus you generally need to go in for a service every 12,500 miles, especially if you are looking at the RVG on leases.
     
  7. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    #7 cwerdna, Feb 21, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
    If it were missing an odometer, I doubt it'd meet regulations for MANY countries for passenger vehicles (e.g. FMVSS, Transport Canada, etc.)

    As for your wear and tear comments and "Would one mile in an ICE equal three in an EV?", it seems that for the case of Tesla's drive units, their lifespans (in terms of time and mileage) before they start developing problems (e.g. noise (mostly) or complete failure) are considerably worse than that of transmissions and engines in reliable Japanese cars.

    Have you looked at the Maintenance & Repairs section of 2013 Tesla Model S Long-Term Wrap-Up | Edmunds.com, for instance? How about the plethora of folks who have numerous problems and or an numerous DU replacements? A few examples below (some are just 1 DU replacement, so far):
    Edmunds.com test car failure - Page 2
    Tesla wants to replace my drive unit - 900 miles on car
    Tesla wants to replace my drive unit - 900 miles on car
    Tesla wants to replace my drive unit - 900 miles on car - Page 2
    Model S had to be towed home - Page 8 - at under 29K miles
    P85D Rear Drive Unit failure
    Drive Unit failure symptoms and thresholds for replacement - Page 10
    Two Thirds of Early Model S Drivetrains May Fail By 60,000miles - Page 2
    Model S Not Ready For Commercial Use Prime Time. Can I afford to own this car?
    Model S Not Ready For Commercial Use Prime Time. Can I afford to own this car? - Page 11
    Drive unit replacement - getting better? - Page 2
     
  8. Redshift

    Redshift Member

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    Yes, it really needs an odometer. I can think of a couple reasons off the top of my head.

    First, practically speaking, insurance companies always ask about how many miles you drive in a year in order to rate how much to charge you for your coverage. I don't think that would be different just because the car is electric.

    Second, emotionally speaking, I like to watch the numbers go by. I know exactly how many miles my first car had on it when I got it, 81,890.4, if anyone cares. I loved the long-term relationship I had with the first new car I got, which lasted 18 years and 280,000 miles before I sold it. I like to see when my car hits milestones like 100,000 or palindromic numbers or other cool patterns of numbers. I would feel distinctly cheated if I could not watch such numbers go by.

    The last time I asked at my local showroom, having the odometer display was once again possible. Of course, that was for the S, but I expect that would be the same for the X.
     
  9. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    #9 cwerdna, Feb 21, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
    Tesla's resale value (right or wrong) is pretty good. As a Leaf driver (formerly a lessee and now the owner of a used one), I can tell you that Leaf resale value is terrible.

    As for "when other companies start making BEV's", not sure what you're talking about. There are plenty of automakers making them. See January 2016 Dashboard under January 2016 Battery Electric Car Sales Numbers. Unfortunately, a number of them are CA ZEV compliance cars and sold only in CA a few states beyond it (mostly CARB emission states). Some are discontinued (e.g. Fit EV and Rav4 EV) and others the automakers have made virtually no effort to sell outside the above states (e.g. Ford Focus Electric).

    And, outside the US, there are BEVs w/other name plates and brands like BYD, Renault (Renault-Nissan Alliance Sold More Than 300,000 EVs), and rebadged i-Mievs from Citroen and Puegot, to name a few. A few more examples at CHAdeMO EV CHAdeMO Association.
     
  10. trigoe

    trigoe Member

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    Yes, it needs an odometer because there are certain universal constants that measure general use. Everyone knows an odometer reading even in ICE's is just a number that needs to be taken in context; highway vs. city driving is the easiest example. Until there are hoverers, and rubber still hits pavement, I want to know the mileage.
     

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