Does anyone charge from a regular wall outlet?

[Glamisduner]

Yes, check on the wire gauge at both ends (just to be safe). Also check how many conductors there are. Maybe you will get lucky and there is a ground there but just not connected to the plug? You could swap to a 14-30 which is a more modern setup.

Interesting that there are two plugs? They are on the same circuit? I wonder what that was about? I am not 100% sure about what code would have to say about two plugs on the same circuit, but from a practical standpoint if you did not ever run the dryer at the same time it would work... (code generally does not want humans to have to deconflict things...)

On the breaker thing: Please post pictures of your panel. A close up of the circuit directory, of the breakers handles (so the ampacity and types are visible), plus also the sticker on the door that has all the specifications on the panel.

You need to buy the right kind of breaker that matches and is rated for use with your panel. Otherwise there is always the possibility of causing a hazardous situation.

My fingers are crossed that I find some nice think wire, and the genius that added the second plug put it there for a welder or something. I guess with these older plugs you do not want to plug and unplug them often which may be the reason the previous owner added it, to get around the wear out the outlet issue? Or maybe the whole thing was a retrofit so he wouldn't have to use a cloths line anymore IDK. House is 1960! At least it's from before the aluminum wire decade. The romex used is the paper stuff (Is it still called romex? I can see some where the drywall does not reach). I don't think there is going to be a ground. Some of my wiring is not to code, I replaced most of the 2 prong outlets in the house with 3 prongs behind GFCI's. The outlets in my garage had the boxes grounded but no working ground. When I changed them out I grounded the outlet instead of the box. I really need to go back in there and ground both one of these days, the wires were too short and caught me off guard.

I'll get some pictures of the box soon. Thanks for your help and the additional information!

 

[eprosenx]

My fingers are crossed that I find some nice think wire, and the genius that added the second plug put it there for a welder or something. I guess with these older plugs you do not want to plug and unplug them often which may be the reason the previous owner added it, to get around the wear out the outlet issue? Or maybe the whole thing was a retrofit so he wouldn't have to use a cloths line anymore IDK. House is 1960! At least it's from before the aluminum wire decade. The romex used is the paper stuff (Is it still called romex? I can see some where the drywall does not reach). I don't think there is going to be a ground. Some of my wiring is not to code, I replaced most of the 2 prong outlets in the house with 3 prongs behind GFCI's. The outlets in my garage had the boxes grounded but no working ground. When I changed them out I grounded the outlet instead of the box. I really need to go back in there and ground both one of these days, the wires were too short and caught me off guard.

I'll get some pictures of the box soon. Thanks for your help and the additional information!

FYI, I have heard of this item here on the forums, but I can't tell you anything about it. Not sure if it is UL rated, if it works well, etc...)

Dryer Buddy™ #1 30A 240v Splitter 5ft. cable NEMA 10-30(before 1996) with optional meter

 

[Glamisduner]

FYI, I have heard of this item here on the forums, but I can't tell you anything about it. Not sure if it is UL rated, if it works well, etc...)

Dryer Buddy™ #1 30A 240v Splitter 5ft. cable NEMA 10-30(before 1996) with optional meter

First, sorry to get off topic a bit here.

I heard those work great, but since I'd only be using dual outlets is temporary I'll just be sure to not charge the car while running the dryer. Also since the volt has a 16 amp maximum and the 20 amp breaker has never tripped there's a pretty good chance I could run both at full power at the same time anyways.

The real issue is that I'm not sure it's even worth buying a 16 amp charger for the volt, because it will not be that useful for the tesla. But it would make an ok spare, or keep in the trunk charger I guess? It requires a ground unlike some cheaper chargers, but that seems like a bad thing for an emergency charger?

 

[eprosenx]

First, sorry to get off topic a bit here.

I heard those work great, but since I'd only be using dual outlets is temporary I'll just be sure to not charge the car while running the dryer. Also since the volt has a 16 amp maximum and the 20 amp breaker has never tripped there's a pretty good chance I could run both at full power at the same time anyways.

The real issue is that I'm not sure it's even worth buying a 16 amp charger for the volt, because it will not be that useful for the tesla. But it would make an ok spare, or keep in the trunk charger I guess? It requires a ground unlike some cheaper chargers, but that seems like a bad thing for an emergency charger?View attachment 308193 View attachment 308196 View attachment 308197

Well some great news! Looks like you have a nice modern electrical service panel on the outside of the house. While all the breaker positions are full, it does support "double" breakers so you can consolidate down to make room if you wanted to add an EV charging breaker. If you for instance wanted to add a charging plug outside directly below that panel it would be like $100 in parts (maybe a little more since you need to consolidate breakers).

Question: What is the top breaker that I can't read the label on?

If you are comfortable around electricity it would be awesome to get some pictures with the cover removed of the panel (just of the right side of the panel - just a single screw to remove at bottom). Take good detailed pictures if you do this so we can look at conductor sizes, wire types, etc...

Note that I expect your dryer to take up 100% of that circuit. I am pretty surprised that is only 20a. Can you take a picture of the nameplate on your dryer? (likely on the back?) I am curious what it draws.

I am perplexed by the two dryer plugs. Very odd. Are you 100% sure they are on the same circuit? If you are positive which breakers to shut off I would be curious to see the wiring going in the back. With some luck you might be able to switch that to a new receptacle style with ground. Also, how hard would it be to run a new flex conduit or something to your garage from the panel?

Here is what the NEMA 14-50 install I did in my garage looks like (sheetrock not repaired yet). Note that this conduit type is not rated for outdoor use, but you get the idea how simple it can be. I did use an outdoor rated box since they are only like $33 at Home Depot including the receptacle...

 

[eprosenx]

First, sorry to get off topic a bit here.

I heard those work great, but since I'd only be using dual outlets is temporary I'll just be sure to not charge the car while running the dryer. Also since the volt has a 16 amp maximum and the 20 amp breaker has never tripped there's a pretty good chance I could run both at full power at the same time anyways.

The real issue is that I'm not sure it's even worth buying a 16 amp charger for the volt, because it will not be that useful for the tesla. But it would make an ok spare, or keep in the trunk charger I guess? It requires a ground unlike some cheaper chargers, but that seems like a bad thing for an emergency charger?View attachment 308193 View attachment 308196 View attachment 308197

Looking some more at that picture of the receptacle, that does look like 10 gauge to me (though PLEASE confirm this - don't take my word for it) - the question however is if it is copper or aluminum. If copper, it should be rated for 30a and you could potentially upsize the breaker assuming the entire run was copper 10 gauge and in good shape. Presumably the 10-30 plugs are rated for it.

But again, especially with a metal electrical box, 10-30 receptacles are not really a good deal these days since they have no ground. I would be OK using one in a non-metallic electrical box if it was only being used to charge a Telsa, but I am not sure how I feel about having an actual dryer hooked to one and not otherwise frame grounded.

 

[eprosenx]

Here is a good article on changing away from a 10-30 receptacle (if you have a sufficient number of conductors in the cable to the dryer plug).

How to Replace a Mismatched Dryer Cord and Receptacle : Electrical Online

I guess the 10-30 situation is still well accepted and common for folks that don't have a fourth wire in the wall, but I can't say I like it.

 

[FlatSix911]

Thank you all so much for this feedback- it is really helpful. Here is some more context and also reflections on your feedback. One question that I have for the community:

What is the kWh to mph charge rate?
An early responder said 1.1 to 1.2 kWh per hour of charge (figuring an average of 4 miles of charge). Is this about right?

Thanks again for the responses- I realize that I probably have 12 months of wait time in front of me since I made the reservation a few days ago, but it's fun to post on here now instead of just watching. Without a reservation or a car, posting felt like I would be a fraud

Here is a helpful guide from Tesla with recharge speed... Home Charging Installation

 

[Finley&OtisDad]

How do you "like" posts or indicate they are "helpful"

Sorry new to forums and wish I could give people positive feedback for their responses

 

[davewill]

You could always get a JuiceBox, Durastation, or other EVSE that allows you to configure the amperage. Then use it at 16a or 24a now and use it at 40a later when you get a car and circuit that can support it.

 

[eprosenx]

How do you "like" posts or indicate they are "helpful"

Sorry new to forums and wish I could give people positive feedback for their responses

Bottom right of each post has some greyed out icons. When you mouse over them you can select one. (took me a while to figure that out as well)

 

[eprosenx]

Here is a helpful guide from Tesla with recharge speed... Home Charging Installation

View attachment 308244
View attachment 308243

Nice graphic! Had not seen that one.

Odd that they don't include the 10-30 plug (they have seven of the eight offered adapters). It would give you the same range as the 14-30.

 

[FlatSix911]

Nice graphic! Had not seen that one.

Odd that they don't include the 10-30 plug (they have seven of the eight offered adapters). It would give you the same range as the 14-30.

Forgot to include the NEMA 10-30 Loads of additional information on Telsa Home Charging Installation

 

[Mobsidian]

I will second this.

While I don't plan to charge from 120v at home ever, while I was doing a bunch of electrical work to get ready for my M3 I realized several of my garage outlets were cracked, the spring holding tension on one was low, the outside one was not water resistant, one of the plugs had a loose wire shoved in a compression connector on the back, and they were not on GFCI! So I replaced four receptacles (the first in the chain with a GFCI), and I upgraded them all to 20a receptacles (they were 15a before but were on a 20a circuit).

So now I can test my Wall Connector at 15a or 20a 120v (I bought both adapters for the UMC) or I can let any friends that come over with other EV's or PHEV's use that circuit.

I can not stress safety enough when charging electric vehicles. They can take most circuits all the way to their max rating and hold the current draw there for many hours. It is basically the most intensive thing you will ever connect to your electrical system so please take care. (note that I don't think they are unsafe, but care needs to be taken)

Sorry but noob here.
Is having GFCI necessary for EV charging? How can I tell if a receptacle is 15A or 20A? Right now I'm daily charging on a receptacle in the garage and getting 12A at 120V. That's the only receptacle in it and it doesn't have a cover, does it matter? Thanks!

 

[ratsbew]

The intermediate solution is to install a 6-20 outlet. 240 volt 20 amp. It can use the same standard yellow 12-2 Romex wire, instead of the much more expensive 6 gauge 4 strand wire to hook up a 14-50. I just have to install a double pole 20 amp breaker in my breaker box, and that should be good for around 15 mph. Tesla sells a 6-20 adapter.

This is what I did. I upgraded a dedicated 5-20 circuit to a 6-20. It cost me under $15 and 30 minutes of my time. I'm still waiting on my Model 3.....but, I should be able to charge 15 miles/hour which I believe will cover 100% of my needs.

After getting three quotes of nearly $1000 for a NEMA 14-50, I think I can live with it.

 

[scott8659]

GFCI circuits are required on all 120v garage outlets in the U.S. Being in Canada your laws may be different. A GFCI outlet doesn’t necessarily have a cover or an obvious trip switch. The trip switch may be located on the actual breaker. In the U.S. a cover is only required on outdoor outlets exposed to the elements. But again laws may be different in Canada.

 

[firelegend]

I am currently charging on a regular wall outlet outside of my house. Did better then I expected but it rained last night so I unplugged everything because its a weird concept to me to be able to charge something in rain lol.

 

[jamnmon66]

-Distance/Recharge rates: I definitely know I will be shelling out for some supercharger time or extra destination charging in the beginning because the temptation to take people for rides or just drive my car myself in the beginning will definitely be overwhelming. However, as I am close to a major city, I have been able to find many restaurants, hotels, movie theaters, malls, that have chargers that are free.

You might be over thinking this. I was too before I got the car. Of course, why not take the energy if it's free. But the range on the LRM3 is so high that I have yet to have a reason to charge it outside of my garage other than long highway trips (I drove almost 200 miles one-way for dinner the other day just to see how the car did) . I'm constantly giving rides (& test drives for people who I trust). And I drive just for the fun of it. Just plug it in every night & drive. How many times do you fill up your gas tank more than once in a single day unless you're on a road trip? If you plug in every night then you have a "full tank" every morning.

EDIT: This might change if you're charging on a 120v outlet because you won't be able to fully recharge the battery overnight if you drive a lot. I have a HPWC.

 

[eprosenx]

Sorry but noob here.
Is having GFCI necessary for EV charging? How can I tell if a receptacle is 15A or 20A? Right now I'm daily charging on a receptacle in the garage and getting 12A at 120V. That's the only receptacle in it and it doesn't have a cover, does it matter? Thanks!

See the image below. A 20 amp 120v plug (NEMA 5-20) has a sideways piece of metal on the left hand side instead of a vertical one (assuming your ground pin is down, which it is not in the picture below). So a receptacle that supports 15a or 20a is a T shape. One that only does 15a is just vertical.

What is kind of weird is that in the US you are allowed to install 15a outlets on both 15a circuits and 20a circuits. So very commonly in garages you will have a 20a circuit with 12 gauge wire (12 gauge is needed for 20 amps, 14 gauges is for 15a), but all the plugs will be 15a plugs. So if you simply spend $6 on a new receptacle at Home Depot that is 20a keyed you can charge 33% faster (but ONLY do this if it indeed is a 20a circuit with 12 gauge wire).

You will also need to buy the 5-20 Tesla adapter for $35 since the 15a one is limited to 12a (80% derate).

On the GFCI question: NO a GFCI is not required for EV charging. It won't hurt anything, but it is not required. Actually, one of the primary functions of the EVSE (i.e. your UMC or Wall connector) is to provide GFCI protection. So when plugging in to your car you are GFCI protected. The caveat is that the wall socket end of the UMC can't be GFCI protected by the UMC itself. So if you are not plugging in that end in a dry location you REALLY want that to be on GFCI. I would not worry about it inside my garage, but if I was using the outside plug I would darn well make sure it was GFCI protected.

This is what I did. I upgraded a dedicated 5-20 circuit to a 6-20. It cost me under $15 and 30 minutes of my time. I'm still waiting on my Model 3.....but, I should be able to charge 15 miles/hour which I believe will cover 100% of my needs.

After getting three quotes of nearly $1000 for a NEMA 14-50, I think I can live with it.

Yeah, this is a great option too! Still not the fastest, but WAY faster than 120v charging. This poster here converted the "neutral" wire into a second "hot" leg. So instead of having 120v of potential between the hot and neutral, they have 240v from "hot to hot". Note that you need an extra breaker position in your panel to do this (need a double wide breaker), and you need to be absolutely 100% positive and certain that there are no other plugs on the same circuit. If there was and you missed one you could create an incredibly dangerous situation where a regular 5-15 plug had 240 volts coming out of it. Also, technically per code you need one 120v plug every X distance of wall in many situations and so if you convert one to a dedicated car charging outlet at 240v you may violate that part of code. But yeah, now we are splitting hairs. ;-) (the reason though for these rules is to keep folks from using extension cords which are hugely dangerous as statistically they start a lot of fires due to misuse and damage)

GFCI circuits are required on all 120v garage outlets in the U.S. Being in Canada your laws may be different. A GFCI outlet doesn’t necessarily have a cover or an obvious trip switch. The trip switch may be located on the actual breaker. In the U.S. a cover is only required on outdoor outlets exposed to the elements. But again laws may be different in Canada.

Great points! Note that I think there is an exception in the US still if you put only one single receptacle on a circuit then you don't have to do GFCI, so just watch out for this. I have a dedicated plug in my garage for a freezer that is this way. To pile on to what you said, there may be another receptacle elsewhere in the circuit that provides the GFCI protection. If you buy an inexpensive circuit tester with a GFCI test button you can verify a receptacle is DOWNSTREAM of a GFCI unit and ensure it is functioning (they have like a 1 in 8 failure rate). My GFCI for my garage is in a receptacle on my workbench, but it also protects the outside plug I would plug my EV into if I charged that way.

https://www.amazon.com/Sperry-Instruments-GFI6302-Receptacle-Professional/dp/B000RUL2UU/

I am currently charging on a regular wall outlet outside of my house. Did better then I expected but it rained last night so I unplugged everything because its a weird concept to me to be able to charge something in rain lol.

Yeah, so as mentioned above the EVSE provides GFCI services, so you are pretty well protected there, however- You are not protected on the plug end where you go into the wall. So optimally that receptacle is GFCI protected. I would absolutely buy a tester for a few bucks and prove to yourself if that plug is on a GFCI or not. If it is not, I would absolutely spend a few more bucks and put in a GFCI (optimally this would go in the first plug in the chain of plugs on a circuit, but at least if installed on the outside plug that would solve for your EV charging).

I also would suggest a rainproof outlet cover that protects even when something is connected. something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/MM510C-Weatherproof-Outdoor-Receptacle-Protector/dp/B001JEPX4Y/

 

[Finley&OtisDad]

So I am going to ask a question that I think is going to result in two things:
1. Everyone knowing that I am NOT an electrician
2. Everyone saying "noooooo, do don't that!"

So here goes:
If I have a regular outlet (what I have now learned is a NEMA 5-15), can I simply change this outlet to be a NEMA 6-15 outlet? It's the same amperage (and I can see in my panel that it's a15 amp breaker), but would result in more voltage and higher charging. I would need to buy the adapter, but this would seem to be a much cheaper way to increase my charging speed.

Electrical context: My garage has a garage door opener, but that's not plugged into the outlet I would be using, but rather another one. They are all on the same breaker though, I think.

Let the noob condemnation rain down! .

 

[davewill]

So I am going to ask a question that I think is going to result in two things:
1. Everyone knowing that I am NOT an electrician
2. Everyone saying "noooooo, do don't that!"

So here goes:
If I have a regular outlet (what I have now learned is a NEMA 5-15), can I simply change this outlet to be a NEMA 6-15 outlet? It's the same amperage (and I can see in my panel that it's a15 amp breaker), but would result in more voltage and higher charging. I would need to buy the adapter, but this would seem to be a much cheaper way to increase my charging speed.

Electrical context: My garage has a garage door opener, but that's not plugged into the outlet I would be using, but rather another one. They are all on the same breaker though, I think.

Let the noob condemnation rain down! .

You can only do that if the outlet is the only one on the circuit. That normally only happens if the outlet was installed for a particular purpose like running a hot water heater or a big power tool that uses a significant fraction of the 15a or 20a capacity of the circuit.