Does dual motor make a big difference in terms of power, enjoyment, etc?

[dfwatt]

Yeah, that’s because the Lexus has zero low RPM torque and a lazy 8 speed automatic. Had that combo 3 years on a GS350 and couldn’t wait to be rid of it. Weakest part of an otherwise excellent car.

I have the lazy 6-speed automatic!

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Here's another way to look at it: If the only M3 available was a RWD version, would you get it and be happy with it?

If so, save your money and get a RWD, and then stay away from these forums.

The psychological effect of having the people that spent more money for faster M3's trying to justifying their decision by talking about how their car is much better is going to make you unhappy with your car even though you're really happy.

Watch what happens to the M3 AWD crowd if they hang out all day on the Model S forums reading threads about whether to get an M3P or a MSP. They're going to feel pretty inadequate pretty quickly.

 

[Kilotango74]

+1

I've noticed how acutely aware I've become of ICE cars that make a lot of noise. Especially ones that make a ton of noise and don't seem to accelerate while doing so.

Yes!!! All that fuss with little to show for it.

 

[Knightshade]

Watch what happens to the M3 AWD crowd if they hang out all day on the Model S forums reading threads about whether to get an M3P or a MSP. They're going to feel pretty inadequate pretty quickly.

FWIW the S is a frigging boat-and handles like crap in comparison to the 3... sure it's quicker in a straight line but after a 24 hour test drive of a P100D I picked the 3, easily, over it...and the one time I had to drive an S overnight as a service loaner after having the 3 for a while just reinforced that was the right decision.... (the fact it also left an extra 50+k in the bank is a nice bonus of course)

 

[m3nc250]

FWIW the S is a frigging boat-and handles like crap in comparison to the 3... sure it's quicker in a straight line but after a 24 hour test drive of a P100D I picked the 3, easily, over it...and the one time I had to drive an S overnight as a service loaner after having the 3 for a while just reinforced that was the right decision.... (the fact it also left an extra 50+k in the bank is a nice bonus of course)

^This is the real answer. I have two friends who are not funds-challenged. They both sold their S and bought Model 3's for this very reason.

 

[RFernatt]

Having driven an S as a Turo rental and a loaner, I wouldn't trade my 3 for one. I don't generally prefer large vehicles though. I guess it could be better as a long distance tourer, but that's not my general use.

I picked the DM 3 for all weather capability in WV, better resale (IMO), and performance. The biggest cons would be the slightly lower range and cost of course.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

^This is the real answer. I have two friends who are not funds-challenged. They both sold their S and bought Model 3's for this very reason.

Pretty silly of them to give up the acceleration performance when all they needed to do is a typical suspension upgrade, like people are doing to the 3.

But still, do you think if you went on the Model S forum and asked them which is better they would all tell you they're stupid for buying an S when they could have had a 3? I don't think so.

 

[Knightshade]

Pretty silly of them to give up the acceleration performance when all they needed to do is a typical suspension upgrade, like people are doing to the 3..

Suspension can't fix physics. It can't change the fact one car is both physically larger and significantly heavier than the other.

Meaning all else being equal the 3 will always handle better and also be a lot easier to navigate things like tight parking lots

(that's apart from how if you're "really" a performance guy the S will fall on its face after a couple of laps while track mode on the 3 will keep you going longer)


I can't say what the "s forum" guys would say... but we just had another user cite multiple S owners who ditched theirs for 3s... and obviously from the sales #s we know a LOT of folks who could've afforded an S bought a 3 instead given how S sales have tanked since the 3 came along.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Whether or not the Model 3 is cannabalizing Model S sales or not has nothing to do with my post, so please just let it go.

To review, my point is that the peer pressure aspects of forums combines with the human nature of people trying justify their decisions will make you feel like you need to spend more money to be happy.

So don’t go on a forum asking if you will be happy with the lower cost version of a Model 3. Buy what you think you should buy, enjoy it, and avoid these types of threads to stay happy with your choice.

 

[TheNeck]

List the cars you've owned that you thought were fast or at least acceptable, performance-wise, from your perspective. It's all relative.

1990 300ZX back when it was brand new i was able to go 145 on the 10 freeway, speedometer said 160 but it was limited to 145.

today marks only a week of having my 2020 LR AWD, my 1990 300ZX seems so slow. it only took 30 years for me to get my dream car.

i was debating getting just the SR+ over the LR AWD, but in the end i decided to get the LR AWD, and im glad i did.

 

[TyH2009]

1990 300ZX back when it was brand new i was able to go 145 on the 10 freeway, speedometer said 160 but it was limited to 145.

today marks only a week of having my 2020 LR AWD, my 1990 300ZX seems so slow. it only took 30 years for me to get my dream car.

i was debating getting just the SR+ over the LR AWD, but in the end i decided to get the LR AWD, and im glad i did.

Congrats, now do the boost upgrade. Haha

 

[BYE FOSL]

Get the LR if you are a whimp, a pansy, and aren’t a car guy. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Otherwise, go DM.
Don’t get a P. It’s too fast. It has supercar speed, but it isn’t a supercar.

 

[Wooloomooloo]

For context these are roughly the 0-60 times and 1/4 mile times for all 3+ versions, all of them include rollout (Tesla dishonestly does NOT measure the P the same as the others, I've removed that from these numbers)

LR RWD- ~4.7 seconds, 1/4 mile ~ 13.3@103 (note I don't have results post-second-5% bump so might be slightly better now)

LR AWD ~3.9 seconds, 1/4 mile ~12.3 at 115-116

LR AWD+ (AWD with $2000 update)- ~3.5 seconds, 1/4 mile ~11.8@~116-117

P: ~3.0 seconds, 1/4 mile ~11.4@~116-117

It's worth pointing out that the faster the 0-60 time, more power (exponentially) is needed to increase speed further. So the difference in power needed between going from 4.5 seconds to 3.5 seconds (a full second) is actually less than the power needed to go from 3.5 seconds to 2.9 seconds. I know the butt-dyno can't tell the difference, but there's quite a difference between the P and AWD in power output (even if the hardware is the same).

There are plenty of sub 5-second cars on the road, a reasonable number of sub-4 but exceptionally few sub-3. So if bragging rights is your aim, I think the Performance Model 3 is the most affordable sub-3 second car out there.

 

[Knightshade]

It's worth pointing out that the faster the 0-60 time, more power (exponentially) is needed to increase speed further. So the difference in power needed between going from 4.5 seconds to 3.5 seconds (a full second) is actually less than the power needed to go from 3.5 seconds to 2.9 seconds.

Sure, but it's artificially limited (and up to an even lower speed than before with the boost)

It'
I know the butt-dyno can't tell the difference, but there's quite a difference between the P and AWD in power output (even if the hardware is the same).

Forget the butt dyno- look at the 1/4 mile trap speeds which are an excellent proxy for power output.

They make it clear that other than the artificial restriction at low speed on the AWD there's not a significant difference in power between the AWD and the P.

Hence why the "from a roll" videos we've seen show the P and AWD basically equally fast.

The P will still handily beat the AWD+ from a stoplight- but for something like say highway merging or passing the cars offer largely identical power now.

 

[Phlier]

Hey all,

I'm currently debating picking up a used 2019 Long Range RWD M3 (before dual motor was standard in long range) or a new 2020 AWD Dual Motor. I've driven the LR RWD before, but never dual. I live in California so any perks from AWD/DM would be strictly pleasure. I like to feel power when I drive, but I know the LR RWD has plenty of it. Is there a big difference between the two?

I haven't read the entire thread, so if this has already been said, I apologize...

I have the Stealth Performance. Bought it after test driving a LRAWD. Yes, the difference is dramatic, and I do not regret the extra money spent. At all. But then again, I get a lot of enjoyment out of my cars; they're far more than just a way to get from point A to point B for me.

If you fall into the same category, you won't regret the additional cost. But if your car isn't a source of joy in your life, save the money.

 

[TyH2009]

I haven't read the entire thread, so if this has already been said, I apologize...

I have the Stealth Performance. Bought it after test driving a LRAWD. Yes, the difference is dramatic, and I do not regret the extra money spent. At all. But then again, I get a lot of enjoyment out of my cars; they're far more than just a way to get from point A to point B for me.

If you fall into the same category, you won't regret the additional cost. But if your car isn't a source of joy in your life, save the money.

Agreed.

Cars to me are more than point A to point B tools, for some people that's all they are, but I like to enjoy what I drive and it makes me happy.

Life is too short to drive boring cars.

 

[TheNeck]

Congrats, now do the boost upgrade. Haha

my 3 is already fast enough, getting the boost upgrade will just get me in a lot of trouble. LOL

 

[Wooloomooloo]

Sure, but it's artificially limited (and up to an even lower speed than before with the boost)



Forget the butt dyno- look at the 1/4 mile trap speeds which are an excellent proxy for power output.

They make it clear that other than the artificial restriction at low speed on the AWD there's not a significant difference in power between the AWD and the P.

Hence why the "from a roll" videos we've seen show the P and AWD basically equally fast.

The P will still handily beat the AWD+ from a stoplight- but for something like say highway merging or passing the cars offer largely identical power now.

All of that may be true, and I have no reason not to believe it, but if Tesla marketed their cars the same as say Porsche or Ford with their Mustangs and said AWD = 447hp and Performance = 580hp you'd still get the same arguments even though the power difference is there in black and white.

I remember 911 owners constantly going on about 0.4 second faster trap times than 718 owners, and 718 owners saying "it's hardly any difference". Same with Golf R Vs Audi RS owners (same engine, different software, different power output). So it seems that even with EVs people will either emphasize or minimize differences depending upon which car they ended up with.

Just one thing on your trap times. The Performance model has as standard 20" wheels, some videos I have seen have had the AWD on 18" wheels which are lighter and require less torque at the crank to get going. I would like to see a 1/4 mile test with the same wheels. When I changed mine to 19" forged alloy (way lighter than the OEMs) I gained about .25 of a second and that was before the update.

 

[arghx7]

AWD will probably hold value better over time, people will pay more for power and the LR RWD will be the “cheap used long range option”

 

[Knightshade]

Just one thing on your trap times. The Performance model has as standard 20" wheels, some videos I have seen have had the AWD on 18" wheels which are lighter and require less torque at the crank to get going. I would like to see a 1/4 mile test with the same wheels. When I changed mine to 19" forged alloy (way lighter than the OEMs) I gained about .25 of a second and that was before the update.

So 2 things-

1) I'm talking about trap SPEED, not time. Trap speed is an excellent proxy for power... the time is a measure of a potentially quite a few other factors.

2) The P for much of 2018 came standard with 18s, and the 20s only came if you added the upgrade package. Likewise in 2019 the P was often available as an inventory car with 18s or 19s.

(also Teslas don't have crank shafts, but that's getting into the weeds )