Does Fuel Savings really make that much of a difference?

[jcaspar]

Even driving like a slug and holding up traffic in a Prius will cost you .066$ per mile. My Model S costs me about .02$ per mile (not counting free electricity) going 75-80 on the freeway, making the Prius look like a gas hog. Plus, you have to drive and be seen in a Prius! :smile:

This is in California with .06$ off peak rates from midnight to 2 pm Summer.

 

[CliffG]

If your in PSE&G territory, it costs more than that. the 12C/kwh is the generation charge, there is still the 6c/kwh distribution/delivery charge. I was just saying that Tesla seems to make a big marketing deal on the energy savings, they even subtract the 'anticipated' savings from the monthly payments indicated (making it hard to tell what it really costs). Even if electricity were 100% free all the time, unless you drive LOTS of miles, or are comparing to a total PIG of a ICE vehicle, the fuel savings do not make up for the premium cost of the vehicle. Don't get me wrong, I agree there are may other reasons to purchase a Tesla. But for many (I am one of them), fuel savings alone really does not go vary far in the justification department.

Yes, you're right about the Supply cost (between 11 and 12 cents/kWh) and delivery (between 6 and 7 cents/kWh), both broken out in a few (4) tiers that strike me as spurious at best, but probably only because I don't understand them.

Agreed about the savings alone not going far in fully justifying the car. Which was why it was important for me when I realized that those costs weren't the only things (let alone the only costs) that swayed me.

YMMV.

 

[jdesmo]

Probably will not save you anything meaningful if you live in Long Island/NYC area ($0.23/KWH delivered), unless you can S/C as part of your normal daily driving routine.

Regarding scheduled maintenance, statements such as "there is no oil or other fluids to change or upkeep" is misleading. You still have to pay Tesla $600/year regardless. Over a typical 3-4 year lease time frame when a car is under full warranty, the MS is more expensive than actual experience with my previous two V8 Supercharged Jaguar XFs (tires not included).

 

[Brass Guy]

So that's why SC are so abundant down there.

 

[Kbsilver]

Probably will not save you anything meaningful if you live in Long Island/NYC area ($0.23/KWH delivered), unless you can S/C as part of your normal daily driving routine.

Regarding scheduled maintenance, statements such as "there is no oil or other fluids to change or upkeep" is misleading. You still have to pay Tesla $600/year regardless. Over a typical 3-4 year lease time frame when a car is under full warranty, the MS is more expensive than actual experience with my previous two V8 Supercharged Jaguar XFs (tires not included).

Yes there is brake fluid to be changed every 2 years and battery/motor coolant to be changed every 4 years. Pretty much the same intervals as ICE vehicles. I'd recommend free maintenance be included for the first 4 years like many other premium brands.

 

[Nixx]

The economics in the UK are pretty clear cut:

[converted to USD and US gallons for ease of comparison]

Gas is $8.50 a gallon
Off peak electricity is $0.09 per kWh

So for me 15k miles is $5200 in gas or $525 in electricity.

And that's before the savings from free supercharging (plus the majority of public charging is free as well), car taxes, company car benefit charges, London congestion charges, maintenance, etc etc etc.

What I find interesting, is that on the most recent conference call Elon said:

But I think long term we're probably looking at, this is just a guess, but I mean maybe 40% Asia, 40% North America, 20% Europe, as a rough guess.

So, he only sees 20% going to Europe even though gas is like $6-8 a gallon across the pond.

/baffled

 

[GoBlue88]

What I find interesting, is that on the most recent conference call Elon said:



So, he only sees 20% going to Europe even though gas is like $6-8 a gallon across the pond.

/baffled

Wonder if it is a size issue, at least in the UK and Ireland. Other than the major motorways, the roads there are narrow, parking is tight, and the MS/MX are big vehicles. The Leaf might make more sense to a lot of buyers, and it has the bonus of being a hell of a lot cheaper.

 

[brianman]

Does anyone really buy a Tesla because of the lower fuel costs?

Not exactly what you asked but it's a related thought process...

Back when, (home) internet was metered. You payed by time or by bandwidth, or some formula involving both. That impacted the way you used the system, as you were conscious of the cost -- even if it was essentially small among other bills. And you dealt with the modem cacophony as well. For the last decade or two, I have unlimited bandwidth (well, at least not metered) at home. I leave the machines on. I have loggers running. I have services like updates automatically polling, etc.

Mobile phone bandwidth is going through a similar "metered to unmetered" transition (IMO).

Now let's get to EVs. There are some charging stations that are "expensive" so that can "mess with" the freedom of not measuring how much juice you're spending. But with the SC network especially, and charging at home to some degree, I don't think about it. With a gasoline car, if I floored it in the back of my mind there was always a nagging "well that was $1 for that sprint". With the Model S, I don't have that voice when I stick the pedal to the floor -- repeatedly.

Now if only I could get rid of that "the ticket would be expensive if I saw a cop right now..." feeling. I suspect that won't be addressed in my lifetime though.

 

[ljwobker]

If anyone wants a pre-built spreadsheet that attempts to calculate the major factors that go into puchasing/depreciating/maintaining/fueling various cars, I offer you this:

tesla-lwobker-tco - Google Sheets

comments are welcome.

 

[CHGolferJim]

If anyone wants a pre-built spreadsheet that attempts to calculate the major factors that go into puchasing/depreciating/maintaining/fueling various cars, I offer you this:

tesla-lwobker-tco - Google Sheets

comments are welcome.

Looks great.

 

[Billygarrett]

If anyone wants a pre-built spreadsheet that attempts to calculate the major factors that go into puchasing/depreciating/maintaining/fueling various cars, I offer you this:

tesla-lwobker-tco - Google Sheets

comments are welcome.

Very helpful sheet. Thanks
I am shocked by the cost of insurance.
I was quoted approx £600 here in the UK as an Advanced Motorist with IAM Surety, with a valuation of £40k.
I couldn't get any cover quotes better than that and I thought it was expensive anyway!!
Can any UK folks give some insurance figures?
Test drive in York tomorrow....

 

[appleblossom]

Cost Justification a tie? | Tesla Living

This is the best cost analysis I've run across. It's a specific example but covers all the issues worth considering pretty well.

 

[TheConnected]

Considering I am off the grid, my current cost for electricity from solar is approximatel $0.09 / kw, which is much less than the $4 / gallon for fuel.

 

[scaesare]

Fuel savings for me puts my TCO for my S85 in the same ballpark as what my previous Toyota SUV payments + fuel were.

 

[Lloyd]

Considering I am off the grid, my current cost for electricity from solar is approximatel $0.09 / kw, which is much less than the $4 / gallon for fuel.

I would be interested in seeing how your costs totaled up for being off grid, if you are willing.

Edit.....

Perhaps start another thread to keep this one OT.

 

[ENZA]

New board member, right now just a lurker and a dreamer. I am planning for the future replacement for our 'larger' car which is a 15 year old BMW 540iT (wagon with a V8). It seems as 'estimated' savings is always factored into the payment cost. Here in NJ I'm paying nearly 17 cents a KWH (delivered) which when calculating savings over gas, is essentially insignificant compared to the monthly payments on a Tesla. Or does everyone use time of day metering and only charge the car off peak?

Currently most driving is in our BMW diesel (335D), which averages well over 30MPG. MPG almost doesn't matter to me, it's the TOLLS!! I spend more on Ezpass than I do on gas/diesel. But I see there is a 10% (off peak) discount for low/zero emissions cars. That's almost as much as much as the fuel savings. Does anyone really buy a Tesla because of the lower fuel costs?

I had an e92 335i, from my recollection I pay about $60-$65 per tank and I was able to get about 230 miles out of it. I used to fill up once every 4 days to a week so my fuel costs was roughly about $260~$300 a month. I just called my utilities company and they did a ballpark estimate that I would be adding another $330 of electricity use per month. Considering that you will charge at off-peaks and if you're just looking for a quick answer to your question with a ballpark and without getting into the technicalities, then the answer is no. It does not make much of a difference... at least for the peeps in Southern California. Just give or take $30/month.

 

[yobigd20]

I had a e92 335i, from my recollection i pay about $60-$65 per tank and I was able to get about 230 miles out of it. I used to fill up once every 4 days to a week so my fuel costs was roughly about $260~$300 a month. I just called my utilities company and they did a ballpark estimate that I would be adding another $330 of electricity use per month. Considering that you will charge at off-peaks and if you're just looking for a quick answer to your question with a ballpark without getting to the details of the technicalities, then the answer is no. It does not make much of a difference... at least for the peeps in Southern California. Just give or take $30/month.

I thought CA was the cheapest place for recharging electric cars with a $0.05/kW off peak rate? That would cost you ~$4 to fill er up which is just a fraction of the cost of gas thus netting you a good 90-95% savings. that's HUUUUUGE.

 

[ecarfan]

I am near San Francisco and charge at an off peak rate of $0.10/kW. I don't think Southern California is cheaper than that.

 

[GoBlue88]

SDG&E off-peak is $0.16/kWh. However because I have solar, my average price per kWh over a billing cycle has been around $0.06.

 

[riceuguy]

I'm probably not alone here, but for me, there was no way I'd be able to justify or afford paying for a $80k car if it weren't for the gas savings over my previous car. I had an Acura MDX that got around 16 - 17 MPG of Premium Unleaded gas and I drive around 20k miles a year. That's about 1200 gallons of gas a year at around $4 is $4800 a year in gas. Same number of miles at a conservative 330 Wh/m is 6600 KWh of electricity. Add in another 10% for charging inefficiency and you're up to 7260 KWh. Here in NC we pay around 10.5 cents per KWh which comes out to $762.30 a year of electricity. Take that from the $4800 I would have spent on gas and I'm saving $4000 a year on gas. Keep the car for 8 years and that's a $32,000 savings over the life of the car. That's a big deal for me.

Seriously. I've only spent about $600 on electricity over 18,000 miles. In my previous car, that would have been $3500-$4000 in gas. Conservatively, I'll save at least $20k on gas over the life of the car!