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Does Installing Powerwalls Affect PG&E Grandfathered NEM/TOU Plan?

iPlug

Member
Sep 14, 2019
503
718
Rocklin, CA
I'm in PG&E land. Have a 11.43kW solar PV system and am currently grandfathered into NEM 1.0 and the E-6 rate plan (E-6 rate plan starts to phase out next year).

Considering buying 3 Powerwalls. Does anyone know if I will be booted from either NEM 1.0 or the E-6 rate plan by doing this? No plans for adding additional solar PV panels.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
8,083
8,943
Riverside Co. CA
It shouldnt, at least in my case with SCE adding storage ONLY did not force me off NEM1.0. The only thing I would wonder about is, I only added 2 powerwalls so 10kW storage. There were separate forms for over 10kW storage, and not sure if that triggers the loss of NEM 1.0.

You definitely should check.
 
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getakey

Active Member
Jan 28, 2020
1,101
353
95762
I know adding PWs triggers a true up bill. It did not change my rate plan, but it gave me an unexpected $500 bill.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,155
5,748
Los Altos, CA
I had Powerwalls installed in 2018 to go with my solar installed in 2012. I am still on NEM 1.0 today. It should still be the same because there's nothing in the NEM 1.0 tariff that says you will be kicked out. Increasing your solar size by repair or addition can get you kicked out.
 
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arnolddeleon

Supporting Member
Jul 21, 2012
740
828
SF Bay Area
I'm in PG&E land. Have a 11.43kW solar PV system and am currently grandfathered into NEM 1.0 and the E-6 rate plan (E-6 rate plan starts to phase out next year).

Considering buying 3 Powerwalls. Does anyone know if I will be booted from either NEM 1.0 or the E-6 rate plan by doing this? No plans for adding additional solar PV panels.

I wasn't following too closely when it happened but the result for me was I went from NEM 1.0 to NEM 2.0 when I added two Powerwalls in 2018 (PTO April 2018). I'm on grandfather E-6 (was in grandfathered E-7 until that died). I also stopped being able to easily see my usage data on PG&E's website. @miimura almost certainly knows the actual rules/details.
 
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iPlug

Member
Sep 14, 2019
503
718
Rocklin, CA
I wasn't following too closely when it happened but the result for me was I went from NEM 1.0 to NEM 2.0 when I added two Powerwalls in 2018 (PTO April 2018). I'm on grandfather E-6 (was in grandfathered E-7 until that died). I also stopped being able to easily see my usage data on PG&E's website. @miimura almost certainly knows the actual rules/details.
Did you add any panels with your 2018 PW additions? I realize PG&E may still do things that aren't in the rule book.
 

Incredulocious

LEAF → RAV4EV → Model 3 → Model Y
Mar 31, 2012
422
581
Scotts Valley, CA
I'm in PG&E land. Have a 11.43kW solar PV system and am currently grandfathered into NEM 1.0 and the E-6 rate plan (E-6 rate plan starts to phase out next year).

Considering buying 3 Powerwalls. Does anyone know if I will be booted from either NEM 1.0 or the E-6 rate plan by doing this? No plans for adding additional solar PV panels.
I added Powerwalls in February and there was no change to my E-6 rate plan or my true-up date.

I'm on PG&E but I'm also enrolled in that Community Choice Energy thing (with Monterey Bay Community Power in this area) as of early last year (2019) – and that did reset my true-up date in the middle of winter and screw me with a fat bill where normally I would owe nothing after a normal full year of net energy metering.

Here's more on how my Powerwalls install went: Tesla Powerwalls Installed
 
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iPlug

Member
Sep 14, 2019
503
718
Rocklin, CA
...The only thing I would wonder about is, I only added 2 powerwalls so 10kW storage. There were separate forms for over 10kW storage, and not sure if that triggers the loss of NEM 1.0.

You definitely should check.

...I wonder if >10kW will put you into a different category.
An "energy advisor" is supposed to contact me at some point from Tesla. Added this to the question list, thanks.
 
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bmah

Moderator, Model S/X, California Forums
Mar 17, 2015
3,901
7,009
Lafayette, CA, USA
I added 3 Powerwalls to my existing solar, install date was March 2019, PTO was March 2020 (don't ask). I stayed on EV-A, NEM 1.0 throughout. (Forcibly migrated to EV2-A a couple months ago, but that was unrelated to the Powerwalls.) PTO did trigger a true-up.

Bruce.

PS. PG&E territory, Marin Clean Energy CCA.
 

iPlug

Member
Sep 14, 2019
503
718
Rocklin, CA
I just got off the phone with the PG&E solar/NEM division. They were unsure and recommended the email I have now sent to their NEM engineering department. Apparently it takes 2-5 business days for a reply.
 
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iPlug

Member
Sep 14, 2019
503
718
Rocklin, CA
Just got the official answer from a return email from the PG&E NEM engineering department:

...adding battery storage would not affect the NEM tariff only added additional solar generation would. To be exact the customer will remain eligible only if the NEM1 system does not increase in size more than 10 percent of the generating capacity in the original PTO letter, or 1 kW, whichever is greater. To include your existing rate would not change either as it is an acceptable Time Of Use rate.
 

arnolddeleon

Supporting Member
Jul 21, 2012
740
828
SF Bay Area
I had Powerwalls installed in 2018 to go with my solar installed in 2012. I am still on NEM 1.0 today. It should still be the same because there's nothing in the NEM 1.0 tariff that says you will be kicked out. Increasing your solar size by repair or addition can get you kicked out.

Hmm, I think I have a guess as to what happened to me. I have two PV systems, one done by a long defunct company and a second one done later by Solar City. When I was doing the Powerwall they only listed the Solar City one but gave the total production capacity of the combined systems. This looked liked an upgrade and that triggered the NEM 2.0.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,155
5,748
Los Altos, CA
Hmm, I think I have a guess as to what happened to me. I have two PV systems, one done by a long defunct company and a second one done later by Solar City. When I was doing the Powerwall they only listed the Solar City one but gave the total production capacity of the combined systems. This looked liked an upgrade and that triggered the NEM 2.0.
If you feel the financial impact is significant, you should discuss it with the PG&E Solar department to see what happened. It's also possible that Tesla just checked the wrong box on a form. I wonder how far back they would recalculate your bills if there was a mistake.
 

aesculus

Still Trying to Figure This All Out
May 31, 2015
4,371
2,486
Northern California
I added more solar last fall and it was more than 1kW so it triggered me going to NEM2. But at the same time it kept me on EVA1 so that was a good thing.

My PW PTO this summer changed nothing other than a forced true up.
 

arnolddeleon

Supporting Member
Jul 21, 2012
740
828
SF Bay Area
If you feel the financial impact is significant, you should discuss it with the PG&E Solar department to see what happened. It's also possible that Tesla just checked the wrong box on a form. I wonder how far back they would recalculate your bills if there was a mistake.

I was going to call them with my periodic plea to see if I can get my data working online again. I see people are able to see their usage data on PG&E's website, mine stopped mysteriously in Oct 2018 (my PTO was April 2018). I will ask them about the NEM 2.0 then as well.
 

getakey

Active Member
Jan 28, 2020
1,101
353
95762
I was going to call them with my periodic plea to see if I can get my data working online again. I see people are able to see their usage data on PG&E's website, mine stopped mysteriously in Oct 2018 (my PTO was April 2018). I will ask them about the NEM 2.0 then as well.

I could see usage data on PG&E site for my solar until I added Powerwalls. Now its gone. I can still download the data, but all the graphs quit showing
 

arnolddeleon

Supporting Member
Jul 21, 2012
740
828
SF Bay Area
I could see usage data on PG&E site for my solar until I added Powerwalls. Now its gone. I can still download the data, but all the graphs quit showing

Ah thank you, so it is not just me. I'm trying to find where I can download the data, when I've called before they tell me where but at some point I manage to forget and I fumble around the website (edited: found it)
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,155
5,748
Los Altos, CA
Ah thank you, so it is not just me. I'm trying to find where I can download the data, when I've called before they tell me where but at some point I manage to forget and I fumble around the website (edited: found it)
The Green Button SmartMeter data is still available. I would not count on them being able to get the Opower usage charting sub-site working on NEM-PS accounts, no matter how much pleading happens from any number of customers.
 

arnolddeleon

Supporting Member
Jul 21, 2012
740
828
SF Bay Area
  • The Green Button SmartMeter data is still available. I would not count on them being able to get the Opower usage charting sub-site working on NEM-PS accounts, no matter how much pleading happens from any number of customers.

Well I thought I was the only one I was hoping that it was just stupid configuration error that was affecting me.

Yep, found the Green Button and confirmed that it had current data even though the graph ended in Oct. 2018

I'm currently on hold with PG&E trying to sort out my account.
  • It looks like when the Powerwalls were added Tesla incorrectly listed the size of my size as being 16 instead of 12 panels. This increased the size of the size which triggered the NEM 1.0 to NEM 2.0 change. PG&E tells me there is no way to correct it. I've opened a ticket with Tesla Energy to see what they say.
  • While we were at it I discovered that PG&E seems to have "forgotten" about my original 10.9 kW system installed in 2003. I now wonder if this another Solar City screw up from 2008 when I added the a 2.49 kW system from them. It seems at that time PG&E replaced the system in record. Of course they claim the application was probably filled out incorrectly but who knows at this point.
So PG&E thinks I have 16 panel (don't know what size) system. I don't understand why PG&E talks about system size in panels. What I have is 128 (85 watt) + 12 (205 watt) panel system. I think I need to get this corrected since I think they're limiting what they credit me on export based on what they think the size of the system is.
 

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