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Does it mean anything: Model X mule(s) show signs of opposite-side charge port?

Discussion in 'Model X: Interior & Exterior' started by AnxietyRanger, Apr 6, 2015.

  1. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Active Member

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    This seems to warrant its own thread:

    attachment.php?attachmentid=76925.jpg

    More discussion was in the spoiler thread, maybe moderation can move: Model X mules show signs of a new spoiler? - Page 4
     
  2. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    This nonsense was discussed ad nauseam in the other thread. Silly to start it all over again.
     
  3. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    The only legitimate reason I can think of this to have charge points on both sides is for the "autopilot parking/self-valet" at your home along with their work for their "snake like self-plugging-in-plug". Aka everybody's garage is different and some people may have their charger on the left and some people may only have it on the right. Therefore for the concept to work, you need charge ports on both sides.
     
  4. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Personally, I don't care either way. It could be nice to have them on both sides (for reasons YoBigD mentioned, and others), but if not, then I'm fine with keeping it on the side it's on.

    If there were some benefit to dual ports (charging from two cables at once), then that's just a bonus.
     
  5. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

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    But hey, it makes AR a thread starter...
    And the number of silly threads discussing yet another crazy idea based on pixel-peeking... maybe HRHLGP should create a sub-forum "random crazy ideas based on yet another over-interpreted mule picture"
     
  6. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    If a topic comes up in an unrelated thread, it is wise to break that discussion out if it reaches a certain point. This is best both for the direction of the main thread, and for bringing this new discussion to light for those who didn't read all of the main thread.

    Yes, AR has spent a lot of time analyzing the X, so he has many threads created here, but it's better than a bunch of various themes going on in one thread (IMO), and it's quite easy to skip over what you don't like reading. Personally, I'm ambivalent on the over-analysis. Gone are the days where I care enough to go over every inch of information we get on Tesla, but I'm more than happy to peruse the findings of those that are still in that phase.
     
  7. EchoDelta

    EchoDelta Member

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    To each their own; I appreciate AnxietyRanger's level of passion for dissecting futures from tidbit of data and ability to fish out and tease implications.

    And I really appreciate the attempt segmentation by speculation topic vs 'whole forum in a thread' effect of each sighting post.
    Maybe labeling them as [Speculation] Charge port locations, [speculation] Rear View Mirrors, [Speculation] Tow Hitch; [Speculation] Exterior Wood panels etc would. make the topic more consistent as the debate is fueled by, but not a function of, each 'sighting' or Elon remark.
     
  8. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Active Member

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    I think the silliness or lack there-of of the pixel peeking threads is greatly dependent on what the eventual Model X will be aka how much really can be construed from these mule sightings in particular and how good our analysis of the limited data has been. I am making the assumption, based on my background with other cars, that some design and development tidbits can be gathered. If the production Model X is a DRIVE PX hosting, 10+ camera wielding, spoiler sporting, nose cone dropping, new charge port incorping sibling of a mule, then maybe we got a bit of a preview thanks to them. If it has pretty much none of those things and looks likes an offspring of an F150 and the X6 instead, and Tesla indeed has managed to pull a secret rabbit from the hat, then I agree, it was all for naught.

    If, on the other hand, someone just feels it is silly to show that level of enthusiasm towards the Model X no matter the accuracy, I'm sure there is a long list of even sillier hobbies on the Internet. :)

    As for multiple topics:

    First, thank you, EchoDelta and AnOutsider.

    FWIW, I started this thread because in the previous thread people were complaining it was many pages off-topic.

    In the first thread I had decided against starting a new thread myself initially exactly because I felt others would feel there are too many threads, but indeed did so because I felt so many asked and funny pictures instead of any topic were starting to appear. Hence why I started a new one and recommended to mods in the starting message to move related messages here from the first thread:

    I appreciated this comment in particular:

    Understandable and good, I welcome you perusing the findings, that's why they are there. :)

    Just like the old guy at the office, who has been there for 40 years isn't always excited about new things, but he once was. It is wise for the old guy to let the new guys be excited, because one day the new guys again will be old guys and so the circle goes. The old guy can be a voice of wisdom and experience, but also should know when their lack of renewed excitement, perhaps even cynicism may hamper things as well. I feel a lot of people on TMC maybe suffer a little from the "old guy" syndrome when it comes to the Model X. Too many times around the block makes for grumpy company at times.

    I'm sure by Model 3 I'll be bored and hopefully am wise enough to let some excited new guy do the nitty gritty in peace, if all I have to contribute is noise. :)

    p.s. My apologies that I haven't started an exterior wood-panelling thread yet. Never say never, though...
     
  9. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Thanks for the inclusion of the word 'speculation'. I'm fine with all the threads (though ... really?), my issue all along has been the (mis)representation of all of the speculation as factual. As a separate conversation with AO clarified, 'the photos are factual, the analysis of those photos results in speculation'. There are a lot of new folks reading for any morsel of information & I personally believe we have a responsibility to label speculation correctly. Otherwise it is misleading. Others disagree.
     
  10. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Active Member

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    Why would analysis of photos be automatically labelled speculation?

    Is it speculation to say the car in the photos is wrapped white? Is it speculation to say the car is missing a rear-view mirror in the regular place? I don't think so.

    It is speculation what it might all mean regarding a production vehcile, and indeed some parts based on low-resolution inputs may be speculation in the first place, but labelling it all as mere speculation doesn't seem factual to me either.

    There must be a middle-ground in the English language for this.
     
  11. vandacca

    vandacca Active Member

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    Factsulation: Taking a fact and speculating from it. :rolleyes:
     
  12. EchoDelta

    EchoDelta Member

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    That's because some topics are speculative; others are fact.

    I think it is also about creating an inclusive culture of different skills and levels of interest & time. Let's use this as a great beta-test of how to welcome & build Tesla Motors community with a spectrum of styles. The issue is not if the content is ok/useful in of itself; but how to make this a live/useful forum for all the participants given the content that they contribute.
    My take, let's explore patterns to organize this because any early speculation / thread mod lessons will start applying to Model E right away. E.g. ideas... Label speculation threads as such... start a speculation thread with a wiki post with the 'latest conclusions'... have a coaching thread for those crying "DEALBREAKER! IM OUT" based on some imaginative comments from spy shots, etc.
     
  13. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Active Member

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    I'm game with that. ;)

    A personal comment on this speculation vs. analysis:

    I guess what irks me the most about this topic is, I think, an almost dismissive tone of the findings regarding unannounced Tesla products by some on TMC. It feels intentional - protective of Tesla's secrets - and not completely about the facts.

    I have no problem with facts, and that includes the fact of what is speculation, of course. When something is speculation, it should be labelled as such, too. But some jump that gun prematurely, IMHO.

    - - - Updated - - -

    A labelling system and a FAQ ín tow would be great, I didn't get it from your first message but this one, I think, is fleshing out the idea... I can see it making sense.

    Some enthusiast forums and groups use such things to great effect.
     
  14. EchoDelta

    EchoDelta Member

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    Bonnie can then have her own Dealbreaker / Cancellation coaching thread.
    Screen Shot 2015-04-06 at 10.20.52 AM.png
     
  15. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Hahah! I have a bit of experience with that. The "that's a deal breaker!!" statements on the S were pretty insane. Going down that path again will be ... fun. :)
     
  16. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    I forget what my exact words to Bonnie were, but I do agree that there is a bit of a distinction. We can analyze photos, but the conclusions we draw from them are pure speculation IMO. For example, there was analysis done on the photos that seemed to show shiny something on the A pillar. There was *speculation* that it could mean invisible A pillars. The analysis led to speculation.

    None of what we've seen so far can be construed one way or another to be fact, therefor, in my opinion, anything we get from analyzing photos is still speculation.
     
  17. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

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    You are confusing description and analysis.

    Description: there is something that looks shiny and glittery
    Speculation: the A pillar is see through - there's a monitor integrated into the A pillar

    Description: there is something odd on the right side tail light
    Speculation: the Model X will have two charging ports

    Description: there are multiple spots where it looks like there might be cameras and I cannot see a rear view mirror
    Speculation: Model X uses the Nvidia this and that and does the following
    There is. If you describe things that can be seen in pictures of one of the test cars, that's a description.
    If you speculate about what that means for the production model, that's speculation.
    It's simple, really.
     
  18. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Very well put kind sir.
     
  19. Earlian

    Earlian Member

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    #19 Earlian, Apr 6, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2015
    If someone don't want to read a thread, so: Just don't.

    But please, where else would someone open a thread about new details, found in that mule pictures?

    If some one don't like others ambitious opening-method with new threads, instead of disorganizing existing threads? Tell a mod.

    For me it is better we have multiple threads, so I can decide wether it is worth it to read it, instead of finding my thread I'm interested in, full of stuff I didn't want to read about and waste my time.

    But again: Where else do we want to talk about Model X mules, when not in a Tesla Forum?
     
  20. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Active Member

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    My examples, obviously, were simplifications.

    Maybe a bit of backstory on this: Description vs. speculation weren't the competitive words. (I agree description works fine for very clear-cut facts.) The competitive words were: analysis vs. speculation. What can we call analysis of mule photos etc.? What merely speculation? Some here on TMC say everything about mules is speculation. I think for some data and some discussion of data, speculation as a word is too dismissive.

    This isn't clear-cut, because analysis in itself is not necessarily a mathematically proven fact, it may include a level of doubt. A silly, but somewhat relevant comparison: Looking at the mules could be analysis the same way it is analysis when a foreign military is looking at satellite photos of the enemy. Sure, it is based on facts (a photo, a situation on the ground), but what they can make of the data, is analysis - to some extent, at least.

    Some enthusiasts certainly have a ton of industry, company and product insight that they are combining with the data (e.g. photos) at hand, which goes beyond mere idle speculation.

    Here is an example of my thinking combined with your use of the word description:

    Description: Model X mule has front corner bumper, B pillar cameras and a rear camera (from photos)
    Analysis: Model X mule has all-around view camera system (description combined with industry knowledge and comments from Tesla)
    Speculation: Model X final product will ship with all-around view camera system (we can't know for sure when it will happen)
     

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